RE: DL-50 engine
 

Mitch,

It's definitely the G's affecting the diaphragm. I would suggest flying at a higher idle (not much.. 1 click), or opening the low end more.

I always fly with a click or two more idle.

Dennis

RE: DL-50 engine
 

When I am taxiing around preparing to take off I have the idle set at a point where the plane either won't roll, or will roll slowly. When I start my takeoff run I give it about 4 clicks of trim on the throttle. When I get ready to land I pull out that trim on the downwind leg. My planes almost won't land when I have the throttle at the "flight" setting.

The only downside to this is it takes a bit more elevator to stall into a spin, but I think it doesn't hurt to have an obvious break into the spin for IMAC anyway.

On the bright side I will never have a deadstick due to g-forces or any other problem (lean low-end needle typically).

RE: DL-50 engine
 

I fly mine wild on a low 1600 rpm idle on an EF Extra 300 and in 100+ flights only 1 dead stick because I accidentally turned the ignition off. If an engine runs poor for a moment after a down line, which cools the engine off, it's likely running too rich in the lower rpms. The LS needle should be at the point just before the engine starts surging on increasing rpm.

RE: DL-50 engine
 

flygilmore, try unscrewing the low side needle and see if that takes care of it

RE: DL-50 engine
 

The DL engine line is here to stay. Both power and quality are pretty well up there, and the lower picing more than offsets any minor "issues" that crop up from time to time. From what I have read and seen, most of those "minor issues" are user induced. A very large percentage of people having problems are people that are new to gas engines. The way the tune or fail to tune, the manner they set up engine cooling fo fail to set up, and some of the kluged exhaust systems are all factors in bearing failures. Piping for more rpm is another factor when the engine is improperly tuned. Cannisters were not designed to increase engine output, tuned pipes were. However, there are only a few engine types that were designed to achieve maximum benefit from a tuned pipe, DL is not one of them.

As for oils, there are numerous oils on the market that are quite suitable for the DL 50, and all the other, engines. The Mobil was a reasonably good oil, but not real high up the list. Just about any decent two stroke oil will be fine if you mix it in reasonable ratios. The stuff you get at WalMart works just fine at 32-1. Bel Ray, Pennzoil Air Cooled, Stihl Ultra, Redline Two Stroke Racing Oil (been using the stuff for years), Motul 800, Echo, are all great oils. Mix the minerals at a max of 40-1 and the synthetics at a max of 50-1 and you won't have problems. If you find you're too lazy to clean the bottom of the plane once in awhile go ahead and mix at 80 and 100-1 ratios. Be prepared to pay an eventual price with a shorter engine life, stuck rings, and severe wear at the piston skirts though.

Good filtration provides clean and consistent fuel for your engine. The days of the cheesey glow fuel filters were done when you went to gas. Filter your gas at least twice using a good filter. Once when leaving the jug and once before leaving the gas tank. If you feel the need to put something between the fill line and the carb it won't hurt a thing. Take a moment and spend a couple of bucks to take care of your carb once a year or two. That includes replacing the fuel lines. Carb kit components are made to handle up to a 10% ethanol/methanol blends so you need not get overly concerned with todays pump gas. Tune the engine right and your spark plug will last a year or two depending on how much flying you do.

My personal experiences with the DL 50 indicate that it's a good engine when treated correctly.

RE: DL-50 engine
 

tired old man , that is very good advice



I like learning new things



JIM

RE: DL-50 engine
 

I could not have said it better, even if I could have typed that much in one day. Great post T.O.M.!!! You should right a book!

RE: DL-50 engine
 

TOM did wright the book and I,m reading and learning This is what I'ts all about helping others. We all learn.

RE: DL-50 engine
 

Oh!!! I forgot someone said that TOM was Three days older than dirt.:D Ha Ha

RE: DL-50 engine
 

t.o.m. is that true because I dont feel like that and some times I get that but then agin wisdom comes with age
ah ha t.o.m. what else can you teach us I'm all E-ears send us what you got the things you have seen


Jim

RE: DL-50 engine
 

He's not as old as he puts on. Atleast I hope not, I'm not that far behind him!

RE: DL-50 engine
 

Ha Ha I"ve got Him by five years I knew this would be funny. I just got into gas so I am learning from everyone and the one thing I've noticed is that there is no such thing as a dumb question only the one you do'nt ask.

RE: DL-50 engine
 

Aging is simply the path to wisdom,

RE: DL-50 engine
 

About the tuned pipe which has been discussed here before:

Yes there are some engines optimized for tuned pipes in a way that they are designed for high rpms and power output. However, every 2-c engine will benefit from a tuned pipe. Pipes used for our hobby usually use relatively long headers for more torque at lower rpms.

See the graph at http://www.prme.nl/forum/viewtopic.php?t=166

With our long headers expect about 10% increase in max power at max rpm and a 15% increase in torque at 5500 up to 30% at close to 7000 rpm.

The extra weight of the header and pipe over a standard or Pitts style muffler is about 6oz. A DL50 w/o ignition weights about 52oz, an engine that would put 30% more torque out will weight about 68oz. So essentially a 58oz DL50 with pipe combo is 10oz lighter than a comparable engine w/o pipe.

So yes, for 3D, in my opinion, the extra investment for a pipe is worth every penny.

For my next project I'm going for the BME 58 w/ pipe. The BME is a few ounces lighter that the DL and spins a 1" larger prop at the same rpm. So with the same weight as a DL50 w/ standard muffler you can have power and torque getting close to the DA 85 w/ the extra advantage of a better throttle response because the BME spins a smaller prop at a higher rpm.

RE: DL-50 engine
 

But how does the plane fly when carrying that extra weight?

That's the catch. If all you do is pure vertical then by all means run with all the power you can have. However, if you ever fly horizontally with transgressions into post stall flight then additional weight is not at all overcome by thrust. In post stall maneuvering lift gained from additional speed is not to be had. The wing has already exceeded it's maximum angle of attack. Foamies can be a good learning tool. A very light foamie may fly and 3d extremely well but once a larger battery pack or larger and heavier motor replaces one that had been lighter 3d performance suffers and level flight requires more speed.

Agreed, most of the planes currently used for 3d have low enough wing loadings for a little extre weight not to be a factor. OTH some do not. But... some people like to stuff real large engines on planes that were never designed for that much weight to begin with so adding more with tuned pipes takes them backward. Worse are the ones that install a marginallly sized gasser on a plane designed around glow. looking for a little more performance by adding pipes. For those, simply adding the gas engine put them in a bad wing loading and all up weight category. I'm from an old school I suppose where all I ever needed was enough power to accomplish the goals with a slight margin to spare. Extreme excess would be nice, but there's always a trade off. It may be cost, weight, complexity, a need to cut up a pre-made fuselage, whatever, but there will be a trade off. If you can pull out of a full stop hover and accellerate on the way up while performing a vertical snap you have enough.

Everyone has to make their own decisions based upon their needs and desires.

I'm not quite older than dirt, but there are times one can feel that way;)

RE: DL-50 engine
 

T.O.M. boy if that not the truth getting is for the birds . I here ya on the power thing I built the prime cut and put the choise cut wing on it but i built up the wing insted of cutting it out of foam it came out a little hevier than i wanted. to begin with i put a rem38 in front and it had just enough power to fly but not to do any thing else so i replaced it with the G62 now its a good flyer at 25 lbs so i can relate to what you are saying .



Jim

RE: DL-50 engine
 

part i forgot- (getting old is for the birds )



JIM

RE: DL-50 engine
 

I am curious now. At what age does one become "older than dirt"? Wondering if I qualify!

Bruce

RE: DL-50 engine
 

Nothing last forever, as we know.

Even are airplanes have experation date,

RE: DL-50 engine
 

TOM

6oz isn't really 'all that added weight' for a setup that performs like a DL 70. The EF Extra 300 is designed for 50-60cc engines and some fly it with the Brillelli 60. The same plane with a BME 58 and tuned pipe weights the same as with a DL 50 and Pitts style muffler but spins a 2" larger prop at the same rpm. That's a lot of extra power!

See the FG Extreme Flight threads and you'll notice that most people use a tuned pipe setup because a standard DL/DA 50 setup lacks power for a 17-1/2lbs plane. My DL 50 on an MTW RE2 and Vess 23B has 34lbs true static thrust at 7200rpm on a digital fish scale. A Vess 23A on a DL50 w/ standard muffler does about 28lbs and 15 to 30% less torque. That's a BIG difference for only 6oz added weight!

RE: DL-50 engine
 

I am curious now. At what age does one become "older than dirt"? Wondering if I qualify



dude that all depends . how old do you feel ???????????????????
some days i feel like i'm 90 and others like ya ! your only as young as you feel .... enough about how old we are whos got the coolest badest engine and plane out there ??????????? any body got warbirds hmmmmmm with a dl-50 in it

RE: DL-50 engine
 

Sixguns,

Now you understand why I don't usually buy a budget engine. The BME 58 ROCKS but it costs more than a DL 50.

I don't have anything against using a tuned pipe but I believe a lot of people are spending a lot more money than they need to in order to achieve power levels obtainable with other engines in the same size class. For the extra $200.00-$300.00 plus bucks of tuned exhaust you could have had a better engine;) Good engines outlast good pipes....I think so highly of tuned pipes I traded a pair of unused ES Composite pipes with a 106 for another plane. I didn't have any need or use of the pipes.

Cannisters are another story. They make things quiet for those with field restrictions or IMAC competition.

We are going off in a bad direction so I'm not going to respond to any more pipe stuff.

RE: DL-50 engine
 

That's also a way to end a discussion if you lack arguments ;)
A better quality engine doesn't necessarily perform better than a cheap(er) engine. The DL50 performs better than the DA50 and will the DA outlive the DL? Time will tell.

You are correct though that a BME 58 w/ standard muffler performs as good as a DL 50 w/ pipe at the same weight. HOWEVER a BME 58 w/ pipe performs like a 70-80cc engine and is 1lbs lighter!

Also, an engine and pipe w/ its higher torque has a much better throttle response.

So please continue flying circles and leave the 3D stuff to the younger guys :D

RE: DL-50 engine
 

OK, I can reply to that one:)

I only fly 3d. No time for the politics of pattern type contests and left the warbird flying behind more than 15 years ago. Put the gliders away over 30 years ago. Nothing under 50cc, and generally larger, now. Of course that's only when this old and frail body let's me out of the house....

RE: DL-50 engine
 

Let there be no mistake that a DA engine will out last a DL hands down, I own a DL and a DA the DL performs extremly well but I had to take it appart and reglue the bearing back in place I repair most of the engines in my club so Im farmiliar with thre break donw and repairs, The qualety of these engines are like night and day, I would not hesitate to buy a DL engine for the price the DA cost much more and parts replacement with DA is brutal on price and I can see running a DA for the next 20 years not so sure about the DL,

My 2 cents worth,