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DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)
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OK, went out and flew the DLE20 this evening, it's an excellent runner especially for it's size. The SD Models 60" profile it was in weighed 7 lbs. 15 ounces dry. The 6 ounce fuel tank I used will run for 10 minute flight and still be 1/3 full. When was the last time you could fly all weekend on 1/2 gallon of fuel? Took some thrust numbers on the props I posted RPMs on the other day. I'm sure there may be some other props that might produce a little more but I used what I had laying around the test bench, should be enough to get a pretty good idea of what it'll do.</p> APC Sport 16x7 9000 RPM 14lbs. 7oz.</p> JXF Beech 16x8 8300 13lbs. 10oz.</p> JXF Beech 17x7 7970 13lbs. 12oz.</p> SY 16x8 850013lbs. 5oz.</p> SY 17x8N820014lbs. 9oz.</p> So far it's running like a watch and I haven't exactly been nice to it either, 3 hrs on a test stand and another hour on a plane tonight in only about 3/4 of a gallon of gas. I'll get some video soon, the videographer had to put his skirt on tonight for the wife at the last minute. It weighs 29.2 ounces with everything, more power than a CRRC Pro 26 or a Saito 1.25 and has unique timing curve in the Rcexl ignition that lets it idle at 1500 RPM. I'll try to get some thrust numbers with a couple props then also. Should just be able to make out the tach reading in the last picture of it idling at 1410.</p>- = - = - = - = - = - = - = - = - = - = - = - = - = - = - = - = - = - = - = - = ORIGINAL:JediJody <u>The DLE20 requires 32:1 minimumfuel/oil ratio</u>, read the manual. We administrate the DLE warranty for Aeroworks, if your engine has a failure and inspection reveals that the factory recommended oil raio could have prevented it it would not be covered under warranty. <span class="info"> <u>EDIT UPDATE: Added this collection of data at Jody's request</u> ORIGINAL: a1pcfixer Recapping the bits & pieces of info on this new engine, here's the DLE 20cc gas engine details (misc updated info added)....... <span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 255);">[Basic Info]</span> Advertised weight: 29.2 oz with ign. and muffler Prop range: 16 X 8 to 18 X 6 Rear Carb Beam style mount DLE20cc mfg stated - compression ratio 10.5:1 Tower Hobbies - compression ratio 7.6:1 <span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 255);">[Dimensions]</span> Motor mount bolt spacing is 1'', case width is 1-7/8'' Center to center spacing on engine bolts is 2.400" Distance from firewall to prop washer is 5-11/16'' From the center of the rear mounting hole to the edge of the open choke valve is 2-5/16'' Distance from propeller hub to the front of the cylinder: 42 mm Width of cylinder at exhaust port: 56 mm Distance from the center line to the top of spark plug cap: 120 mm (with spark plug cap fully inserted). Prop shaft size : M8 x1.0 mm (w/two nuts) <font color="#0000ff">[Muffler]</font> Stock muffler dimensions; 2.260" tall <u>@ end caps</u> - 3.800" <u>incl exh pipe</u> 1.100" thick <u>out from exh port of eng</u> 2.050" <u>wide @ end caps</u> Pitts style muffler (optional); Jtec wrap around muffler....... J'tec Muffler Dimensions..... <span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 255);">[Ignition info]</span> Stock sparkplug is a made in China CM-6 type (DLE 3) Valley View R/C will include true NGK/CM-6 Electronic auto advance ignition Ignition is a new model (#3- or- #4) and special designed for this engine. DLE recommended voltage range 4.8-6.0 volts A 4-cell NiMh/NiCd of 1650-2000mAh is a good starting point Oiginal:Jedijody The manuals on Tower's website incorrectly state the timing as 45 deg. BTDC. The DLE factory does indeed attempt to set the timing at 32* on all their engines, with varying degrees of success, they run best set at 28-30. The ignitions for the rear carbed 30 and the 20 do have a different timing curve with more retard to help them idle better, the full advance and static timing is the same as all the rest, 28-30 BTDC. <span class="info"> <font color="#0000ff">[Ignition current consumption + ign voltage issues]</font> Ignition draw + Voltage issues...... Ignition current consumption..... <font color="#0000ff">[Prop Data]</font>: APC Sport 16x7 9000 RPM 14lbs. 7oz. JXF Beech 16x8 8300 13lbs. 10oz. JXF Beech 17x7 7970 13lbs. 12oz. SY 16x8 8500 13lbs. 5oz. SY 17x8N 8200 14lbs. 9oz. Vess 17x6 14lb. 8oz. - Great throttle response and crappy tach showed 8549RPM Vess 17x8 14lb. 0oz. - Great throttle response only slightly less RPM than 17x6 Vess 18x6 14lb. 3oz. - Above average throttle response, may be perfect when fully broken in Vess 16x8 13lb. 9oz. RPM through the roof (by ear) and instant throttle response spools up like an electric motor! Zinger 16x8 - stinks, no power, way low on thrust APC 17x4W 3D prop - decent but the idle transition was terrible, 9700 rpm! Xoar 16x8 - Good prop but not as much thrust on the high end as the next one... Xoar 17x6 - Hands down the best prop so far. Great punch out of hover, great top end, improved low end but more to come on this.... MA K-series 15x8 2 blade- 13lbs 11oz @ 9750 rpm. MA K-series 15x10 2 blade- 12lbs 13oz @ 8400 rpm. Xoar 15x8- 13lbs 5oz @ 9000 rpm. The MA 15x8 and Xoar 15x8 have unbelievable throttle response MA K-series 15x6 3-blade 13.0lbs @ 9100 rpm NO thrust numbers for 4-blade props....YET! <span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 255);">[VIDEO's]</span> [link=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lCHXY6_w6RY]Jody Haack - test flight video......[/link] [link=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZRdtZxxQP0]Test run of DLE20cc......[/link] [link=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bBwqL9AIJ1U]First bench run (mpascualslp).......[/link] [link=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kkwr_jc9HVA]and the engine response after 1 hour (mpascualslp)......[/link] FUNTANA 125 WITH DLE 20..... <span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 255);">[Photos]</span> DLE20cc engine dissasembled photos...... Exhaust diverter..... Link to ALL photos on this DLE20cc msg thread...... <span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 255);"> [Interesting comments]</span> same mount size as OS 1.20 a 20cc is a drop in replacement for .90 to 1.20 size four stroke more power than a CRRC Pro 26 or a Saito 1.25 (Saito FG-20/gasser) 20cc = 1.20 c.i. 30cc = 1.80 c.i. The Jtech {muffler} is supposed to be quieter {than the stock one} and that is important to me When propping aerobatic planes the most important engine aspect to consider {is} the torque curve, peak torque comes in at approximately 3/4 of the peak HP RPM, so you want a prop that loads the engine in a manner that takes advantage of that RPM band, typically these are the larger props in an engines acceptable use range. prop the engine for the performance you want for the airframe it's mounted on, forget about the "break in prop" they are unnecessary <span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 255);">[Warranty]</span> Valley View R/C; 1 year Tower Hobbies; 2 years <span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 255);">[Ordering info....]</span> [link=http://www.valleyviewrc.com/DLE-20cc%20Gas%20Engine.htm]Valley View RC.....[/link] [link=http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXAEPW&P=ML]DLE20cc @ Tower Hobbies.......[/link] <span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 255);">[Owners manual]</span> [link=http://images.rcuniverse.com/forum/upfiles/22988/Ig11581.pdf]DLE20cc Factory Manual.....[/link] [link=http://manuals.hobbico.com/dle/dleg0020-manual.pdf]DLE20cc Tower manual.....[/link] <font size="2"><font color="#ff3366">Jody's gas engine tuning tips (pdf files);</font></font> http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=10293852 |
RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)
Many thanks for the info ...
Regards |
RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)
Subscribed.
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RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)
When is it going to be available?
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RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)
This little engine is such good news for us. DLE won't be able to make them fast enough.
Now come on DLE you made half of my wishes (a 20cc and a 40 cc) come true now please make the other come true. |
RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)
Jody,
Any idea of it's price? |
RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)
ORIGINAL: w8ye When is it going to be available? |
RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)
Subscribed. This sounds like the ideal motor for the Ta152H I'm planning on building soon. :)
Many thanks for the heads up |
RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)
It came in a DLE30 box with no manual or special instructions. I'm using my regular mix of 87/89 octane pump gas and Stihl HP Ultra @ 32:1. The main bearings are both sealed and both ends of the rod are caged roller bearings but with revs this engine unloads to in flight I wouldn't want to run any less oil. Cylinder and piston are a scaled down version of the 30, carb and reed assembly appears to be the same as the 30, I didn't take the intake tract apart yet to verify that though, ignition has unique timing curve that allows it to idle real slow. The other modules work with it also but idle quality suffers.
It is a little loud for it's size, not as loud as a 30 on stock exhaust but.....power makes noise. I'm going to try my little 26cc canister on it later on but it might be a little much for a lot of 1.20 sized airframes to carry around. My gut feeling is that it will be available before October but it will be more than $200, though it's less than 50% of a DLE55 in cubic capacity, the manufacturing cost is probably 70-75% of the bigger engine. |
RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)
what size is the mounting ie 91-4 stroke or a 120 size ect?
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RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)
Bolt spacing is 1", case width is 1-7/8"
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RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)
What is the weight differance RTF between the 30 and the 20?
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RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)
41 oz. for the 30, 29 oz. for the 20.
Includes mufflers stand-offs, ignitions, spark plugs, prop hardware, etc. |
RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)
Subscribed
Edwin |
RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)
thanks thats in line wiht a 120 size bottom end......[8D]
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RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)
Are these avaliable yet? TBM nor Tower have them listed.
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RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)
not yet per Jody Haack (jedijodi) at Valley View. The engines are in test mode and won't be available until later. Some of us are guessing around October and unknown price.
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RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)
This engine would solve my questions of what to get when entering into the gas market.
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RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)
What would be the minimum mounting distance (firewall to prop drive washer) without having to cut a hole in the firewall for the carb?
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RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)
5-11/16"</p> |
RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)
This looks wonderful. Will have one when they are available. The Saito 125 w/ muffler weighs ~25oz. With an IBE this puts this 20cc engine in a bunch of airplanes. And especially so if it is smooth runner. Bob
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RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)
Here are the stats so far for those who have ADD or just won't read the whole thread.
All information is straight from jedijody. Price: "My gut feeling is that it will be available before October but it will be more than $200, though it's less than 50% of a DLE55 in cubic capacity, the manufacturing cost is probably 70-75% of the bigger engine." Weight: 29.2 ounces with everything Dimensions: Motor mount bolt spacing is 1", case width is 1-7/8" Distance from firewall to prop washer is 5-11/16" Prop Data: APC Sport 16x7 9000 RPM 14lbs. 7oz. JXF Beech 16x8 8300 13lbs. 10oz. JXF Beech 17x7 7970 13lbs. 12oz. SY 16x8 8500 13lbs. 5oz. SY 17x8N 8200 14lbs. 9oz. Interesting quote: "more power than a CRRC Pro 26 or a Saito 1.25" |
RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)
and more we don't need to know. just need to place on backorder asap :)
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RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)
Jody, How soon can they be preordered? I would like to get on a list, Thanks for letting us know! Bob
My doctor told me I would need allot more therapy, So I bought more airplanes! |
RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)
Any chance they will change it to a radial mount instead of being set up for beams?
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RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)
Too funny..Recent problems with new gassers...
Beam mounts are not good, need radial Radial mopunts are not right, need beam. Side carbs stick out too far, need rear. Rear carbs stick out too far, need side. Front carbs are too close to the prop, need longer hub... Rear exhaust is too close to the firewall. Side exhaust sticks out too far, need rear exhaust... Engine is too heavy, should be lighter. Engine is too light, need lead in the tail to balance. Ignition takes too much power, need a heavy battery... Factory supplied spark plug is no good, need a CM6, which is too expensive at most retailers, or not in stock. Spark plug caps are too loose, need a hose clamp. Spark plug caps are too tight, hard to remove... 4.8 to 6 volts means 7.2, ignition gets hot and quits... And the beat goes on.........;) |
RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)
You are right on
Jk |
RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)
Your awesome Ralph, right on! :)
Anyone that wants to get on an advance notice list can send me an email at [email protected] when I get more info on price and availability I will email the group and they will have the first shot. |
RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)
what about the one that address the damage in a small bump up (means at warp speed)
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RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)
ORIGINAL: Antique Too funny..Recent problems with new gassers... Beam mounts are not good, need radial Radial mopunts are not right, need beam. Side carbs stick out too far, need rear. Rear carbs stick out too far, need side. Front carbs are too close to the prop, need longer hub... Rear exhaust is too close to the firewall. Side exhaust sticks out too far, need rear exhaust... Engine is too heavy, should be lighter. Engine is too light, need lead in the tail to balance. Ignition takes too much power, need a heavy battery... Factory supplied spark plug is no good, need a CM6, which is too expensive at most retailers, or not in stock. Spark plug caps are too loose, need a hose clamp. Spark plug caps are too tight, hard to remove... 4.8 to 6 volts means 7.2, ignition gets hot and quits... And the beat goes on.........;) I will guess that is in response to my question about the mounting option. Glad I could provide you with a laugh while wondering if the design would end up being more like the 30. :eek: ORIGINAL: jedijody Your awesome Ralph, right on! :) Anyone that wants to get on an advance notice list can send me an email at [email protected] when I get more info on price and availability I will email the group and they will have the first shot. Wow! I have always read good things about you here, thanks for the reply instead of jumping on Antique's "humor" bandwagon. ;) I guess there is always Tower Hobbies or RCGF when the time comes...[sm=eek.gif] |
RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)
Think it through mate....
a 20cc is a drop in replacement for .90 to 1.20 size four stroke so which are the most popular engine mounts for that size..? you guessed it, beam. so will it move to radial mount? when ARF's have that mount option included in the box. beam gets it |
RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)
First of all, I didn't see your question until just now, Ralph nor I made fun of anyone personaly.
No, I seriously doubt they will change it to a radial mount, most planes the engine is best suited for are designed around engines mounted on beams, many with blind nuts already installed. Personally I don't seeadifference between an engine mounted on sturdy beams and a radial mount. Think what you want about me, but I do have a sense of humor.I can tell by your post count you've been around the forums for a while, you would know what Ralph posted was totaly true and had very little to do with your question, sorry if my chuckle caused you grief. |
RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)
ORIGINAL: krayzc-RCU what about the one that address the damage in a small bump up (means at warp speed) |
RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)
Got to admit that this DLE 20 has me excited! I am so tired of paying the glow fuel prices, Even the glow plugs have got more then the price of a spark plug! To get rid of the mess that comes with glow, There are so many reasons I am looking forward to the smaller gas engines, I am not really leaving glow, with the price of everything that goes with glow, Glow has been leaving me!
My doctor told me I would need allot more therapy, so I bought more planes! |
RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)
Antique, That sure was right on but the way tou put it all together....I am still grinning from ear to ear. Wow...you are way cool today!!!!
Maybe the fans out there would like to start a new thing called "Dial a Company" ! They could call and order a engine Just the way they like it! Like Burger King! I will have side exhaust on mine~ Don,t make it to heavy! I want a pug & play engine....set to run! I want it too have rear & side Intake...no make it front Intake! Yes I want beam mounts...but be easy to use stand-off too! I do not Care if it made in Tim Buck Too...as long as it has US or Japan bearings. Dont make it too high compression...I cant turn en over! Make sure it will run on any oil ratio! I want crome muffler bearings in muffler...or a darn good tunned pipe included! Leave out the onions!!!!!!!!! http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/js/f...unge_smile.gif Capt,n |
RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)
Super sized! Oh, and to drink a cherry Pepsi!
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RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)
ORIGINAL: P-51B ORIGINAL: Antique Too funny..Recent problems with new gassers... Beam mounts are not good, need radial Radial mopunts are not right, need beam. Side carbs stick out too far, need rear. Rear carbs stick out too far, need side. Front carbs are too close to the prop, need longer hub... Rear exhaust is too close to the firewall. Side exhaust sticks out too far, need rear exhaust... Engine is too heavy, should be lighter. Engine is too light, need lead in the tail to balance. Ignition takes too much power, need a heavy battery... Factory supplied spark plug is no good, need a CM6, which is too expensive at most retailers, or not in stock. Spark plug caps are too loose, need a hose clamp. Spark plug caps are too tight, hard to remove... 4.8 to 6 volts means 7.2, ignition gets hot and quits... And the beat goes on.........;) I will guess that is in response to my question about the mounting option. Glad I could provide you with a laugh while wondering if the design would end up being more like the 30. :eek: ORIGINAL: jedijody Your awesome Ralph, right on! :) Anyone that wants to get on an advance notice list can send me an email at [email protected] when I get more info on price and availability I will email the group and they will have the first shot. Wow! I have always read good things about you here, thanks for the reply instead of jumping on Antique's ''humor'' bandwagon. ;) I guess there is always Tower Hobbies or RCGF when the time comes...[sm=eek.gif] Come on P51 lighten up, we are all here to learn from each other and whenever possible have fun doing so and that's all this was ever intended to be .... FUN. Karol |
RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)
Jody,
Where can I find some information on the SD Models 60" profile you used as a test bed for the DLE 20. Karol |
RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)
Subscribed.
:D |
RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)
Make sure you're sitting down first, the sticker shock could be severe.
https://www.thundertiger4u.com/store...idproduct=2801 |
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