shag555

Someone asked earlier what I was using for sanding and cutting, here's my Dremel scroll saw with built in 4" disc sander. Both the sander and saw have speed control, which is awsome for balsa and ply! I do quite a bit of hand sanding as well, there's just no replacement for good old SLOW hand sanding. Leading and trailing edges were all sanded out by hand. I just marked center and each side, planed it down to the best of my abilities with a single edged razor, then sanded away. My best sander is just a straight 12X2" GP aluminum sanding block, and that's what I use for leading edges as well. I have a contour sander for this, but I found I ruin more with it than by taking my time with the straight block. I've had the contour sander catch on ribbing before to, and that makes for one hell of a mess.

I've also included a razor miter that I use for anything like the 1/4 square fuse sticks and all gusset work. It really saves some time! The wierd angled gussets in the rudder and elevators were traced inked out over balsa, then stuck in the miter. Made for really quick work!

MPB

shag555

Judas Priest... I worked all day at these ribs (there's eight pairs, and one centered in the wing). I got all but five ribs cut (2 pairs and the center rib). I probably averaged about 20 minutes in cutting out each pair, I doubled up two 6X36 inch sheets of 1/8 balsa and was able to fit all but the center (W1) rib on the sheet. Oh yeah, W9 is from 3/16 balsa. I made my sacraficial template from a scan of the plans, taped it on and taped a doubler up. In taking my time, I had minimal sanding on these. My Dad has a mini-band saw, and I think I'll buy a band saw for my next build. This scroll saw works awsome, but I think the band saw would go a little quicker.

W6 is supposed to be sandwitched with 1/32 ply. The aileron servos mount to one side. I'm thinking about concealing the servo and arm completely with a hatch, and mounting the servo on its side. I worry about inspection of the arm and ball joint though. I guess as long as I can see in there to make sure everything's tight and it's not falling apart, I'll be OK.

Other notes, No one (LHS) had any 1/4 square spruce or bass wood, and, no one had any 1/8 X 4 X 48 inch sheeting to boot! So I had to order some. Hopefully the fiberglass pieces will come in and I can at least sheet the hatch and turtle deck of the fuse!

Anyone want to give me some thoughts as to a couple of lightening holes in these ribs??? They're huge and I"m sure I can put several holes in them without any worries. Any ideas as to what size and how many per rib without getting into trouble?

Tomorrow I'll finish cutting out the last ribs, and fit them with the jig blocks. Then I'm pretty sure I'm dead in the water till I get some more wood (at least for the wing).

shag555

I got the rest of the ribs cut out today and added the jig blocks to them. The wing builds with a flat top side, and tapered underside. Not only did I run out of 1/4 inch stock, I ran out of 1/8 stock to finish with the W1 rib! Had to go to the craft store (God forbid!) and pick up some sheeting. Actually, I went to Michaels, and they are vending Midwest balsa. Suprisingly enough, it was straight and I got my pick of the right density! They had 1/4 inch square bass, but it was all 24 inch lengths. I'll have to wait on that. I might at least do a mock up of 1/4 inch balsa stick to see if everything's going together well.

As far as the ribs go, I checked out the Super Decathalon thread, and there's one builder who poked three holes in the center of the ribs between the spars. I might go with this concept, although mine would have to be different hole sizes going from the root to the wing tip. I also realized yesterday that I could have peeked in at my Extra 260's ribs. They've cut out a big chunk of the ribs, then added a piece with the grain running perpendicular for strength. Looks great, but also looks time consuming.

I also drilled the rudder and vertical stab for hinge pins. Haven't measured throw yet, but it's much less than what the H-9 Extra 260 is. I'm going to hinge the elevators and then add 1/4" stock to the trailing edges and shape em. This will definately give enough throw.

I'm loving the Extra thread... Looking for a color scheme, and right now I'm thinking of an all pearl red top profile, or a pearl white / pearl yellow top profile - ultracote.

MPB

Gaiotto

Hi Shagg555, beautifull Extra an beautifull construction of it. Just one question, do will sheet the tail section including the elevators and the rudder. What sheet?

Thanks
Gaiotto

shag555

Gaiotto: Originally, I was going to sheet the vertical and horizontal stabs, but they're strong enough as they are. The gussetting and diagonal bracing help quite a bit. I'll add hinge blocks, and do some finish sanding (400 grit) but other than that, they're ready to cover! The sheeting on the bottom part of the vertical stab is 1/8 inch sheeting. It really adds strength to the root of the stab and rudder.

If this doesn't satisfy you, you could add sheeting. I had planned on using 1/16 inch sheeting for all surfaces, but I believe it's just added weight at this point.

Thanks for the compliment!

MPB

shag555

OK - I received the cowl, canopy, wheel pants, and LG fairings from Fiberglass Specialties. Will need to do some sanding and a little filling here and there. I got all the ribs cut out and attached the jig blocks... Just waiting on 1/4 inch X 48 inch bass stock to start on the wing. I also added 1/4 inch balsa to the trailing edges of the vertical and horizontal stabalizer and shaped them. There's definately enough throw on the rudder and elevator now! I have to build up the leading edges of the rudder and elevator counter balances to match the stabs.

Till I get my 1/4 inch bass, I'll start sheeting the fuse!

shag555

By the way, I plan on using the technique from the thread: http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_3292832/tm.htm on smoking the canopy. I'm going to try to get it as dark as possible.

MPB

shag555

Ended up using 1/4 inch square spruce instead of the bass wood. My LHS says that Midwest isn't carrying 1/4 X 48 inch bass anymore??? He also said that some sizes of sheeting aren't being carried either. This has to be due to the fact that there are SO many ARF's these days and so FEW builders. Maybe I'm (or my LHS) wrong though.

I got the spars spliced out to 8 feet. There are four 1/4 inch pieces that make up the outer portion of the spar, then webbing gets installed between them. I did a quick mock up of the spars and ribs. Everything fits nicely. I did the cut outs in the ribs with my scroll saw, then sanded them out with a detail hand sander. It's one of those fancy dancy "made in germany" sticks that's exactly 1/4 inch wide, so it really works well for this application.

The spars will get cut. I just used what my LHS had available... 4, 48 inch pieces, and 8, 24 inch pieces. I spliced the 1/4 inch as per the plans. The splice falls near W-6 in the wing The forward two spars will get cut at the tips, and the other two abut W-7.

My table is only big enough to do one side or the center. I'm not sure which is best, weather I should build a 8 foot jig that's level and build the wing all at once, or attempt the center section, then build each wing tip. I'm guessing everything will be more true if I build the 8 foot table for all ribs to sit upon.

I'll post some pictures tomorrow. The wife's on me to work on the house as well!!!

MPB

Gaiotto

Hi MPB,

Please, I want to view more photos of you progress, I´m curious...

Thanks
Gaiotto

tom.laird

Hi MPB,
Great thread and great pix. You lost me a little when you added 1/4 balsa to the trailing edges to increase the throw. If you get a minute could you elaborate on why that makes a difference.

We have a Kit Cutter over here who is accredited for Hostetler and Zirolli so the 27% Extra is on my short list - and it's a pretty short list.

If anyone has flown these I'd be very interested in the landing characteristics - fly in fast or float in slow. Any tip-stall tendancies etc?

best regards

Tom Laird
Scotland, UK
http://www.tomlaird.com

shag555

Sorry guys... I'm sidetracked on a house re-model right now and it's taking all my time. The last I did on the Extra was to get my spruce spars and fit up all the ribs. Everything fit just fine and it's now laying on the work bench awaiting assembly. Our baby (Jack, that is), also my helper in the shop at times, has been holed up in the master bedroom since birth and he's now 15 months old. It's time to get him to his own room, and I'm building into the attic over the garage. There's absolutely no structural framing in there, so it's worse than ground-up building since there's trusses in the way, etc.

None the less, I plan on working on the Extra a little this coming week, possibly assembling the wing to some degree.

Tom - to answer your question... The trailing edge of the horizontal stab is made up of sandwitched 1/32 ply X 1/4 balsa X 1/32 ply, in that order. The elevators pivot on this flat surface, and the leading edge of the elevator is simply 1/4 inch balsa. The plans call for the bevel to be made only on the on the leading edge of the elevator halves, and that angle is very shallow which, in-turn, does not allow for very much throw at all. To rectify this, I added 1/4 inch stock to the trailing edge of the stab and also beveled it, thus giving the throw shown in the pictures. I suppose a guy could keep the hinge pivot gap a little wider to get more throw, but I like it as tight as possible.

Now, there's pleanty of throw for mild 3D. I don't know if I'd want to put this structure through violent 3d manuvers since it's 99% balsa.

Let me know what you think..

MPB

Gaiotto

Hi MPB,

I read that you increase the trailing edge of the stab, to get more throw. Did you made this on the rudder too? How did you do on this surface? Do you agree in modifying the wing, making it in tow halves with an aluminum tube? Do you have a sugestion on how to made this?

P.S> I like your work on this plane, very good....congrats

Thanks
Gaiotto

shag555

Thanks G - Much obliged! I did the rudder exactly as I did the elevators. Just added 1/4 inch stock to the vertical stab and beveled on both sides. I'm able to get the full throw, left to right, as the elevator halves were designed. If you don't add the 1/4 inch stock, the throw is about half what is illustrated in the pic above.

I would love to make this wing a two piece wing, with a tube! Problem is, I've already committed to the design of the fuse, and I'll have to make this one a one piece wing. If I were to re-design, there would have to be an engine box running back to the tube socket, as on my H-9 Extra 260. Really makes for a strong structure, and as long as there are cut-outs, it's also light. After ordering these plans, I asked WH about the 33%'er, if it was also a single piece wing. Turns out that it's a two piece, tube wing... Kind of bumbs me out, because I would have requested a set of plans be made from the 33% plans, scaling them down to the 27% to get what I wanted in the first place.

No worries though. A one piece wing will fit the bill just fine. 80 inches isn't that big, and it makes for one less piece to be floating around in the suburban. 80 inch and less wingspans work perfect for suburbans because you can lay the wing and fuse across the seats in back.

MPB

Gaiotto

Shagg,

Please put more pictures of big bird, I´d like to see more of them...I just curious on what happening on your building progress.

Thanks

Gaiotto

shag555

Well it's been quite a while since I worked on this animal. NORMALLY... This is flying season. However, it has rained here in Ohio for the past 3 weeks almost solid. So... My biggest hang-up with the Extra was getting a flat surface that was large enough to build the wing - STRAIGHT. So with all the crappy weather, I Put in a 10 ft work table and levelled it up.

With that, I was able to start laying this wing up. I'll post pictures tomorrow.

MPB

LSP972

My Feedback: (13)

Beautiful work, Shag. You've got me fired up...

I'm going to call Wendell in the next day or so, asking him about a two-piece-wing 27%'er. I've been looking at my "next plane", and while the choices for 50cc power are legion, I just don't want another cookie-cutter ARF, ya know?

Keep this thread going; its an inspiration to some of us...[sm=thumbup.gif]

shag555

Thanks Steve... If everything works out with this one, I'm going for the 33% Edge design this winter.

Sorry about not posting the pics of the initial wing lay-up. I'll get them on tonight. It's rained here so much that the yard looks more like a cow pasture. I weed-eated till 9:30 PM last night. I don't dare take my H-9 Extra 260 out till our field dries out. It's sopping wet. I still can't believe a 12# model would sink like it did in landing (last weekend).

Stay tuned...

MPB

LSP972

My Feedback: (13)

I'm leaning now towards the Aero-Tech 28% Extra kit. I don't have a big enough proper building board to do a built-up wing that size (and no space to add one), so foam cores are better for me. Besides, I'd prefer a mid-wing design.

Horizon is sending me a new rudder for the Extra. Fixing the broken one was turning into a major PITA, because I had to replace most of the trailing edge. Getting everything lined up while keeping the remaining attached piece stationary, etc., was becoming an exercise in futility. So I took a chance and called them, and they obliged.

The Aero-Tech kits look very promising. They come with the cowl and other accoutrements, so the cost between it and a WH kit from a cutter (which is the wood only) works out to about the same when its all said and done. Research continues...

shag555

I looked at Aerotech, but I'm not a foam fan. More a wood guy, which LIMITS me too.

shag555

As promised, here's the initial layup of the wing. Again, rather than spend a bunch of time buzzing holes in these ribs, I left them solid. I'm SURE a person could lighten these things imensly by sticking a few holes in, in a planned fashion. My weight right now is 12 oz (no holes).

In these pics, I glued down the trailing edge and the leading edge was only pinned. The leading edge was glued up tonight, and I got one side sheeted. I'll post more pics as soon as I get the sheeting completed.

I haven't worked on ailerons yet, because, as in the elevator and rudder, there is very little throw in the design. I may add an extra 1/4 inch to the trailing edge and shape it as I did for the tail to get more throw. That will make for a re-vamp of the trailing edge of the wing root to match the ailerons (will be an extra 1/4 inch to fill).

I included a overlay of this wing compared to H-9's Extra 260. This wing is 2 inches (80 vs 78) span, more than the H-9 260. It is also wider in chord... and this Hostetler model is supposed to be lighter than the H-9 E260 ARF. So, if everything goes as claimed, I should have a very nice flying plane!

More pics to come this weekend.

MPB

shag555

Well I've been busy. I matched three 4" X 1/8" sheeting, plus a scrap piece a couple inches wide to cover the turtle deck. Didn't have any problems, other than a crack that formed beyond the vertical stab whilst shaping it. No big deal, because it got cut out anyway. I also sheeted the hatch, which went just as easy. I matched the vertical stab almost perfectly!!! With a little more fitting, I'll have almost NO filler.

Also installed 1/4", 5 ply firewall and epoxyed that in place too. The plans called for a squared firewall with fuse, and that's how I built it. I thought about adding 2 deg right & down thrust, but I'm planning on picking it up in a set of stand-off's.

Hopefully, today I'll get some flying in. Yesterday we had gusts of up to 30 mph. Made for some interesting flying. The Saito 220 in my extra wouldn't start... Turned out to be the glow plug... Still didn't fly because I was too worked up by the time I figured out what was going on. I ended up maidening my little Artesi, and got 3 flights on it. Today looks better, not a hint of wind... Hopefully it'll hold out.

If everything goes as planned, I'm going to install the shear webs in the wing, then sheet the lower half of the leading edge. I have the parts for the ailerons cut, but still haven't bevelled as per the plan in order to see how much stock throw there will be. I'm guessing I'll have to modify in order to get what I want, like the elevator halves & rudder, no biggie though.

I'm thinking of cloning H-9's 46% Ultimate trim scheme (pearl yellow, white, black, silver). Anyone know what the underside looks like, or anyone have profile pictures of this trim scheme??? I'll have to check out the classifieds too for some pics.

MPB

RVM

So how is this turning out? I'm looking for a winter project, and the 33% version of this, maybe scaled down to 30% so I can stay in the 50cc range, is really piquing my interest.

RVM

Any progress shag?

pilotpapakilo

I'm seriously interested in the 33% scaled down to 27% idea to have a 2 piece wing! This is an awesome build thread and hopefully it will start back up again.
Great Job Shag!!! Keep it up!

PK

Old Scratchbuilder

I have the plans for this Hoffstettlers 27% Extra 300xs. Really excited about starting the build. Does anyone have the cut list for balsa & plywoods required to build ? Love the pics Shagg555. Please email it to me or reply. Tx