Losing a giant scale...
11-10-2008, 01:53 PM
#26
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RE: Losing a giant scale...
My 20 second maiden was similar exept I had everything to do with the ignition 12+ inches away from the reciever and was using FAAST. Range check was perfect on low power out to 100+ yards at various angles with and without the engine running. Flight started out as good as it gets with a shallow scale like climb out that just kept on going. It was only after about 5 seconds into that I realized I had no control and the plane was in a very shallow left bank turning back towards the pits.
That crash still perplexes me and I am sure will be one of those mysteries that I will never solve.
Harry
That crash still perplexes me and I am sure will be one of those mysteries that I will never solve.
Harry
11-10-2008, 02:29 PM
#27
RE: Losing a giant scale...
The more I read of this thread , the more I realize that my bad luck combined for the whole year was nothing to even get upset over..
I know I will have a bad year again, A buddy and I had a bad year a few back,, mostly non stop small repairs ,neverending !!! I told my buddy, When did we turn into that guy that shows up at the field and trashes EVERYTHING ... he wasn't sure either. But everyone gets to rest to zero in a few months, around here its almost impossiblt to crash anything for a good third of the year due to weather... I am not sure thats really an advantage in the long run !!!
I know I will have a bad year again, A buddy and I had a bad year a few back,, mostly non stop small repairs ,neverending !!! I told my buddy, When did we turn into that guy that shows up at the field and trashes EVERYTHING ... he wasn't sure either. But everyone gets to rest to zero in a few months, around here its almost impossiblt to crash anything for a good third of the year due to weather... I am not sure thats really an advantage in the long run !!!
11-10-2008, 03:14 PM
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RE: Losing a giant scale...
Don't you see the obvious pattern?
All three were Yaks. Get a Sukhoi not a Sukhoi wanna be.
All kidding aside. Good advice in the earlier posts. Get a routine and stick to it. The only goof up I've had with GS is when I was interupted in my routine by someone needing help. Luckily I had connected one of the ailerons before the interruption. The plane was rolling too slow, I landed it and found I had not connected the right aileron. [X(]
All three were Yaks. Get a Sukhoi not a Sukhoi wanna be.
All kidding aside. Good advice in the earlier posts. Get a routine and stick to it. The only goof up I've had with GS is when I was interupted in my routine by someone needing help. Luckily I had connected one of the ailerons before the interruption. The plane was rolling too slow, I landed it and found I had not connected the right aileron. [X(]
11-10-2008, 06:57 PM
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RE: Losing a giant scale...
ORIGINAL: Rcpilot
You should be doing pre-flight checks. If you have to write it down and use a checklist then do it. Or memorize your sequence of assembly, checking batteries, fueling, starting...... Do it the same EVERY TIME until it becomes second nature. My biggest thing is making sure I don't start an engine above idle speed. Good way to get your hand cut off. If you're ever at our flying field you'll always hear me talking to myself or to a flying buddy,
"Throttle down? Trim up?"
"Choke on?"
"Ignition on?"
"Kill switch on?"
"Clear prop"
"Choke off"
"Clear prop"
"Okay to come out?"
"Taking off to the East"
"Runway is clear"
"Landing from the West"
"Runway is clear"
Get a routine and stick to it. Don't let your buddies talk to you. Just tell them you need to concentrate and you'd appreciate not being bothered or spoken too while assembling or starting your plane.
You should be doing pre-flight checks. If you have to write it down and use a checklist then do it. Or memorize your sequence of assembly, checking batteries, fueling, starting...... Do it the same EVERY TIME until it becomes second nature. My biggest thing is making sure I don't start an engine above idle speed. Good way to get your hand cut off. If you're ever at our flying field you'll always hear me talking to myself or to a flying buddy,
"Throttle down? Trim up?"
"Choke on?"
"Ignition on?"
"Kill switch on?"
"Clear prop"
"Choke off"
"Clear prop"
"Okay to come out?"
"Taking off to the East"
"Runway is clear"
"Landing from the West"
"Runway is clear"
Get a routine and stick to it. Don't let your buddies talk to you. Just tell them you need to concentrate and you'd appreciate not being bothered or spoken too while assembling or starting your plane.
I lost my 50cc yak 55 a few weeks ago by running out of gas... with a 1/4 tank of fuel still left. How?
Even tho I knew tygon fuel line gets stiff and shrinks, I took the advice of many that recommend only re-plumbing the fuel tank at the start of a new season. I had assembled the plane in March, and figured it was good for the year. Nope!
The last thing I checked after the crash (I thought I had suffered an electronic failure, or maybe my first 2.4 issue) was the fuel tank. I unscrewed the lid(B&B Specialties tank) and there it was. The tygon had shrunk, and was so stiff that the clunk was suspended in the middle of the tank, close to an inch off the bottom! Oops!
I had around 150 trouble-free flights on that plane. 151 was its number.[&o]
11-10-2008, 07:34 PM
#31
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RE: Losing a giant scale...
yeah that sucks....when its your time its your time.
I have been tracking my new AW QB Extra 260 in order to see how much draw is on my batteries after a day of flying. (A123) 31 flights, every single flight between 10 and 17 minutes for a total of 420 minutes or 14 minutes per flight avg. Upon landing the last flight of the day, I would check the level of the fuel tank. Always between 1/4 and 3/8 of a tank. I am just learning or trying to learn a little 3D and imac. I have my timer set for 15 minutes, thinking this was a reasonable time. 31st flight, been practicing some uplines all is going well. Time to think about landing. Getting ready to enter the pattern, engine quits at the wrong point in the field at the wrong altitude. Bust the gear off, damge the cowl, tear up the wheel pants, a couple of formers seperate in the fuse.... Minor repairs or replacements to say the least. Kicker is, the plane just ran out of fuel. nothing in the tank but drops basically. looked at the timer once on the ground and it was 14:21 seconds, the time hadn't even gone off.
Says lots about the quality of the aeroworks build. The end of the field it came to rest in is dead mans land. Whole planes can go in there, balsa sticks come out. I was sick to my stomach thinking about how bad it would be. I got lucky...
I have been tracking my new AW QB Extra 260 in order to see how much draw is on my batteries after a day of flying. (A123) 31 flights, every single flight between 10 and 17 minutes for a total of 420 minutes or 14 minutes per flight avg. Upon landing the last flight of the day, I would check the level of the fuel tank. Always between 1/4 and 3/8 of a tank. I am just learning or trying to learn a little 3D and imac. I have my timer set for 15 minutes, thinking this was a reasonable time. 31st flight, been practicing some uplines all is going well. Time to think about landing. Getting ready to enter the pattern, engine quits at the wrong point in the field at the wrong altitude. Bust the gear off, damge the cowl, tear up the wheel pants, a couple of formers seperate in the fuse.... Minor repairs or replacements to say the least. Kicker is, the plane just ran out of fuel. nothing in the tank but drops basically. looked at the timer once on the ground and it was 14:21 seconds, the time hadn't even gone off.
Says lots about the quality of the aeroworks build. The end of the field it came to rest in is dead mans land. Whole planes can go in there, balsa sticks come out. I was sick to my stomach thinking about how bad it would be. I got lucky...
11-10-2008, 07:43 PM
#32
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RE: Losing a giant scale...
Since this thread has gained legs...I was wondering what you guys considered to be the average "lifespan" of a 3D gasser...is there such a thing?
My QQ Yak had 135 flights on it...
My EF 87 had 67
and my most recent EF 88 Yak had only 30.
Although the first two accidents were unseen mechanical issues...the planes MIGHT have been saved if I was doing the moves at about 100 feet or so.
Should it be become pratice not to huck it UNTIL you have at least 100 flights on the plane?
Thoughts anyone?
My QQ Yak had 135 flights on it...
My EF 87 had 67
and my most recent EF 88 Yak had only 30.
Although the first two accidents were unseen mechanical issues...the planes MIGHT have been saved if I was doing the moves at about 100 feet or so.
Should it be become pratice not to huck it UNTIL you have at least 100 flights on the plane?
Thoughts anyone?
11-11-2008, 08:51 AM
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RE: Losing a giant scale...
My answer to that is simple.
If you cant afford to fly it like you stole it. Then keep it up above 100 feet.
Just like rubbing is racing, wreckin is huckin.
All enjoyment comes at a price, just how much and what price are you willing to pay for that euphoric feeling, is what you need to tell yourself before the flight.
I think most of us love to do it down low but when we wreck we simply hate having to repair our mistake.
Jim
If you cant afford to fly it like you stole it. Then keep it up above 100 feet.
Just like rubbing is racing, wreckin is huckin.
All enjoyment comes at a price, just how much and what price are you willing to pay for that euphoric feeling, is what you need to tell yourself before the flight.
I think most of us love to do it down low but when we wreck we simply hate having to repair our mistake.
Jim
11-11-2008, 10:18 PM
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RE: Losing a giant scale...
One of these days I will get smart and have my favorite plane already built and waiting for me to put its twin in the ground. Of all the lessons I have learned in the hobby it would be that!
11-11-2008, 10:34 PM
#36
RE: Losing a giant scale...
ORIGINAL: MR G
I lost a 30% about 20 sec. into maiden. No control, after going through the carnage I know the batteries were good (A123's).
I think i experienced RF interference.
Recovered the plane, nobody hurt (except my ego).
I did make a couple of mistakes:
1) ignition battery was mounted within a couple of inches of the reciever...I know now that that is a no no.
2) In my enthusiam to fly the plane I did not do a range check. (VERY BIG NO NO). I have an identical setup in another plane
with zero problems...I made a very bad assumption.
3) My reciever was a PPM reciever, not PCM.
The first thing to remember is that if you can't afford to lose the plane you should not fly the plane. No if's and's, or butt's about it.
I have accepted this loss as an expensive lesson, one I am NOT likely to ever forget.
As a result, I will remove all PPM recievers in my giants and replace with PCM RX's. I will never locate an ignition battery within 8" of my Reciever. I will NEVER EVER forget to do a range check.
This was a bummer, it was a gorgeous airplane. I will take the loss and learn something( some things: plural) from it. I will not give up and quit. I love this hobby too much for that.
MR G
I lost a 30% about 20 sec. into maiden. No control, after going through the carnage I know the batteries were good (A123's).
I think i experienced RF interference.
Recovered the plane, nobody hurt (except my ego).
I did make a couple of mistakes:
1) ignition battery was mounted within a couple of inches of the reciever...I know now that that is a no no.
2) In my enthusiam to fly the plane I did not do a range check. (VERY BIG NO NO). I have an identical setup in another plane
with zero problems...I made a very bad assumption.
3) My reciever was a PPM reciever, not PCM.
The first thing to remember is that if you can't afford to lose the plane you should not fly the plane. No if's and's, or butt's about it.
I have accepted this loss as an expensive lesson, one I am NOT likely to ever forget.
As a result, I will remove all PPM recievers in my giants and replace with PCM RX's. I will never locate an ignition battery within 8" of my Reciever. I will NEVER EVER forget to do a range check.
This was a bummer, it was a gorgeous airplane. I will take the loss and learn something( some things: plural) from it. I will not give up and quit. I love this hobby too much for that.
MR G
PCM hides interference problems. It won't FIX the problem. It WILL hide the problem.
The best thing to do is use a PPM RX and do the range checks. Thats something you overlooked. PPM will not hide anything. If you can't pass the range check you should locate your problems and fix them. Range check again and rule out any interference problems with the PPM RX. Only AFTER you have solid range checks.......... then switch to PCM. Or not. PPM didn't kill your plane. I use PPM for 50cc gassers and have been doing so for about 5yrs. Never wrecked a plane from interference. PPM works fine. You just didn't do the proper range checks before you took off. You had a problem but you were unaware of it. PCM would have only hid the problem......... for awhile. Eventually it would have gone into lockout and you would have lost the plane anyway.
Test with PPM.
Fly on PCM or PPM. If the range checks are good, it will be fine.
11-11-2008, 11:47 PM
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RE: Losing a giant scale...
PCM hides interference problems. It won't FIX the problem. It WILL hide the problem.
The best thing to do is use a PPM RX and do the range checks. Thats something you overlooked. PPM will not hide anything. If you can't pass the range check you should locate your problems and fix them. Range check again and rule out any interference problems with the PPM RX. Only AFTER you have solid range checks.......... then switch to PCM. Or not. PPM didn't kill your plane. I use PPM for 50cc gassers and have been doing so for about 5yrs. Never wrecked a plane from interference. PPM works fine. You just didn't do the proper range checks before you took off. You had a problem but you were unaware of it. PCM would have only hid the problem......... for awhile. Eventually it would have gone into lockout and you would have lost the plane anyway.
Test with PPM.
Fly on PCM or PPM. If the range checks are good, it will be fine.
Seriously - Rcpilots advice is about the most sound advice regarding interference that you will see. I follow the exact same method and have not had an issue since I started doing it. (And if I remember correctly - it was Rcpilot who originally advised me to do it a long long time ago)
11-12-2008, 12:25 AM
#38
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RE: Losing a giant scale...
Been preaching the same for years but always got contradicted by those that said pcm "blocks" ignition rfi while 2.4 "blocks" everything. Of course the same people would say that ppm was not safe to use on gassers, nor were AM freqs.
I gave up after so much of it and figured they would eventually learn. I still fly both ppm and pcm and don't have radio issues on 72 mhz unless someone turns on the same frequency. It was cheaper to keep using what I had rather than run out and buy the latest and greatest in the hope of fixing something that wasn't broke.
Sorry you lost it but there is an up side. You learned quite a bit in a classroom that will never let you forget. Move forward and start putting together the next one.
I gave up after so much of it and figured they would eventually learn. I still fly both ppm and pcm and don't have radio issues on 72 mhz unless someone turns on the same frequency. It was cheaper to keep using what I had rather than run out and buy the latest and greatest in the hope of fixing something that wasn't broke.
Sorry you lost it but there is an up side. You learned quite a bit in a classroom that will never let you forget. Move forward and start putting together the next one.
11-17-2008, 11:39 AM
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RE: Losing a giant scale...
ORIGINAL: Purple Bird
Since this thread has gained legs...I was wondering what you guys considered to be the average "lifespan" of a 3D gasser...is there such a thing?
My QQ Yak had 135 flights on it...
My EF 87 had 67
and my most recent EF 88 Yak had only 30.
Although the first two accidents were unseen mechanical issues...the planes MIGHT have been saved if I was doing the moves at about 100 feet or so.
Should it be become pratice not to huck it UNTIL you have at least 100 flights on the plane?
Thoughts anyone?
Since this thread has gained legs...I was wondering what you guys considered to be the average "lifespan" of a 3D gasser...is there such a thing?
My QQ Yak had 135 flights on it...
My EF 87 had 67
and my most recent EF 88 Yak had only 30.
Although the first two accidents were unseen mechanical issues...the planes MIGHT have been saved if I was doing the moves at about 100 feet or so.
Should it be become pratice not to huck it UNTIL you have at least 100 flights on the plane?
Thoughts anyone?
EF Yak 87 50cc had 4 flights... Engine died when my clunk line came off during a waterfall... Gave it to my buddy.. He fixed it, flew it, and sold it.
Planes Plus Extra 300 50cc had 5 flights... dumb thumbed a rolling harrier.... smash... Gave it to my buddy.. He fixed it, and is flying it.
Hanger9 Extra330 80cc has over 100 flights... latest crash my left wing bolt came out (I was distracted during assembly)... wing rotated about 25 degrees... fought it back to the runway, and smashed the gear... I'm still flying the old girl.
11-19-2008, 02:08 AM
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RE: Losing a giant scale...
NO KIDDIN'! i want to be his buddy to! Honestly though , every airplane i have ever wrecked , if i didn't think i could repair it correctly , or just plain didn't want to , i gave them away to someone who i know would appreciate them. 6 so far.
11-19-2008, 08:17 AM
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RE: Losing a giant scale...
This was is big lose just from not putting in a wing bolt.
Mc Hoddges 20' B29
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWbzId0vQGM
Milton
Mc Hoddges 20' B29
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWbzId0vQGM
Milton
11-19-2008, 01:54 PM
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RE: Losing a giant scale...
I've been there a couple times, just disgusted with myself after a crash, at the moment I was ready to quit, but later made a comeback after a cooling down period. Learning 3-d has been both the most fun and the most grief . At least I got to the point where I thought I'd never be, DOD low & slow. One thing that has worked for me, is dont evaluate the damage right away, take it home and let it set for at least a few days, then I start to wonder if I can bring it back to life after missing it. I've been doing better w/ giant scale 3-D planes than glow, less struggle with the sticks to make it behave, no mixing needed at all. I'm selling all my glow planes & equipment soon, have enough gassers to ride out a couple "hard landings". (No "C" word again for me!!!) I do a check list every time now before flying, its not just the plane thats at stake. My thumbs& fingers have wandered into running glow props twice in 20years, I dont even want to think about what damage a 30% & larger would do.
11-21-2008, 10:04 PM
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RE: Losing a giant scale...
I lost 4 planes in 9 months....1st was my beloved Funtana from a down wind pullout of a flat spin.I needed another 4 feet.A month later my new Showtime pancaked in from a flat spin that would not stop.Then my Midwest Extra 300 blew a stab in midflight.All you can do is dust yerself off and keep on flyin.I lost my second Funtana a month or so ago from an as yet unexplained power loss in flight.My new Fusion is on the board now to take it's place.I hadn't crashed anything for a couple of years then all of a sudden anytime I took to the air it seemed like I lost a plane.All but 1 of my crashes were from dumb thumbs too.That's what really hurts......
11-22-2008, 10:27 PM
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RE: Losing a giant scale...
I just trashed my QQ Yak 86" today. This has been one of my favorite planes. I'm very discouraged. I was doing some low hovers and stalled the plane and WACK!. She's total loss. 95 total flights. Not sure what to do now. Maybe give up.It certainly is frustrating to crash planes....
Thanks
Barry
11-22-2008, 10:54 PM
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RE: Losing a giant scale...
I was making a low pass to enter into a hover and more or less tried to do a "wall" into the hover. The Yak can stall and tip in this maneuver pretty easily. If you do it fast enough, it pulls straight into a hover...if you don't the wings start rocking and ......Thanks
Barry
11-23-2008, 10:51 AM
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RE: Losing a giant scale...
Barry,
Sorry to hear about the plane bro! My angst is what started this thread!
Isn't it funny the way we console each other after a plane goes in? You'd think somebody died...but I suppose someone did...someone that had about $700 more before the crash!
I hope to buy another EF Yak 88 before too long...it's so cold and boring right now I need an ARF to put together to keep my time occupied!
Sorry to hear about the plane bro! My angst is what started this thread!
Isn't it funny the way we console each other after a plane goes in? You'd think somebody died...but I suppose someone did...someone that had about $700 more before the crash!
I hope to buy another EF Yak 88 before too long...it's so cold and boring right now I need an ARF to put together to keep my time occupied!
11-23-2008, 11:00 AM
#50
RE: Losing a giant scale...
Sorry for your loss.....but, if you don't want to crash airplanes maybe you had better take up bass fishing.
After a crash I leave the still repairable (sometimes) wreckage someplace where I don't have to look at it for awhile....then months later either rebuild it or trash it....fly something else in my fleet.
My goodness, these are ARF's....try losing a real scratch built plane that took a long time to build??
After a crash I leave the still repairable (sometimes) wreckage someplace where I don't have to look at it for awhile....then months later either rebuild it or trash it....fly something else in my fleet.
My goodness, these are ARF's....try losing a real scratch built plane that took a long time to build??