Gary Allen 33% Bücker Jungmeister
09-27-2006, 12:19 PM
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RE: Gary Allen 33% Bücker Jungmeister
ORIGINAL: Big_Bird
Jim, I know that the DA50 has a great reputation but I think it would be a little light for the Jungmeister. However, that depends strictly on how you like to fly. As I recall Gary Allen used a Zenoah G-45 in his prototype. I wouldn't be happy with that engine at all. A G-62 would be fine. That is what I used in my first 1/3 scale Jungie. My plane weighs 27 pounds and I use a Sachs-Dolmar 4.2 cuin engine with a CH Electronics Syncro Spark ignition. With all of those flying wires the plane has a lot of drag. The 4.2 does a really nice job. The plane is not fast but does very nice aerobatcs. As with the full scale you don't zoom up to altitude for a spin but fly to altitude. I'm sure that the 4.2 has better performance than the 160 hp Siemens in the full scale.
If you still want more performance then a ZDZ80RV would fit in the cowl. I have one on my 1/3 Scale Super Decathlon and it is a very smooth running engine with plenty of power.
Gordon, my poor old memory doesn't do that well. I've gotten pretty fast at unrolling the plans. I see the bend that you are talking about. The bend is not critical at all. The spruce longeron will be flexible enough to curve at that point. The very shallow curve will in no way effect the accuracy of the fuselage structure. I can't see a reason that a jig would be needed. Here is a photo of that area.
Jim, I know that the DA50 has a great reputation but I think it would be a little light for the Jungmeister. However, that depends strictly on how you like to fly. As I recall Gary Allen used a Zenoah G-45 in his prototype. I wouldn't be happy with that engine at all. A G-62 would be fine. That is what I used in my first 1/3 scale Jungie. My plane weighs 27 pounds and I use a Sachs-Dolmar 4.2 cuin engine with a CH Electronics Syncro Spark ignition. With all of those flying wires the plane has a lot of drag. The 4.2 does a really nice job. The plane is not fast but does very nice aerobatcs. As with the full scale you don't zoom up to altitude for a spin but fly to altitude. I'm sure that the 4.2 has better performance than the 160 hp Siemens in the full scale.
If you still want more performance then a ZDZ80RV would fit in the cowl. I have one on my 1/3 Scale Super Decathlon and it is a very smooth running engine with plenty of power.
ORIGINAL: gordon_mcln
Ken,
My last question for the moment has to do with the fuselage and you can probably answer this one from memory. The top fuselage longeron takes a slight turn at F4 which looks like it might require a rather long scarf joint through F6. On the way into work this morning I was thinking about a jig to accurately cut that joint. While this is not mentioned on the plan, I was curious if you saw the need for this, or did your longerons have enough flex during assembly to accommodate the slight angle change?
Hi, I'm just about to start the same plane. I see you said a ZDZ 80 would fit inside the cowl of the Jungmeister, I was just mulling over that choice of engine, I then went to RCS web-site and viewed the specs on that engine. It looks to me like the ZDZ80 is going to be to big to fit inside the cowl, the area I am concerned with is the center line to spark plug distance. RCS web site shows a distance of 170mm and the plans show about 155mm , Do you know or have you seen the ZDZ in this cowl? I don't want to buy the engine if it is to big.
Thanks for any help you my provide.
Ken,
My last question for the moment has to do with the fuselage and you can probably answer this one from memory. The top fuselage longeron takes a slight turn at F4 which looks like it might require a rather long scarf joint through F6. On the way into work this morning I was thinking about a jig to accurately cut that joint. While this is not mentioned on the plan, I was curious if you saw the need for this, or did your longerons have enough flex during assembly to accommodate the slight angle change?
Hi, I'm just about to start the same plane. I see you said a ZDZ 80 would fit inside the cowl of the Jungmeister, I was just mulling over that choice of engine, I then went to RCS web-site and viewed the specs on that engine. It looks to me like the ZDZ80 is going to be to big to fit inside the cowl, the area I am concerned with is the center line to spark plug distance. RCS web site shows a distance of 170mm and the plans show about 155mm , Do you know or have you seen the ZDZ in this cowl? I don't want to buy the engine if it is to big.
Thanks for any help you my provide.
09-27-2006, 12:27 PM
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RE: Gary Allen 33% Bücker Jungmeister
GREAT looking bird I must say. I'm just about to start the same plane. Right now I'm confused as to what engine to go with. I had thought about the ZDZ 80 but according to the spec sheet it will be about 15 mm to tall at the spark plug to fit inside the cowl without cutting out the end of one of the cowl blisters. I am now looking at some modified G-62's but am undecided at this point. Heck I wish my RCS 215 would fit but I need about a 45% scale for that to happen, besides it has a home in my Waco.
Anyhow, what other engines have you seen in this bird? I'm going to try to scale this thing out as much as my talent will allow so the weight may be on the upper end.
Steve
Anyhow, what other engines have you seen in this bird? I'm going to try to scale this thing out as much as my talent will allow so the weight may be on the upper end.
Steve
09-27-2006, 02:16 PM
#228
RE: Gary Allen 33% Bücker Jungmeister
Steve, you really have to get down low to notice the spark plug cutout on my Jungie using a Sachs-dolmar 4.2 cu-in engine.
I have a ZDZ80RV in my Super Decathlon and love it. I don't think the spark plug cover would be too noticeable. Another choice might be the ZDZ80 twin or the the Zenoah GT-80 twin.
Another thought might be to contact Ralph Cunningham (RCU user name RCIGN1) and he will tell you where you can get a new G-62 for a great price. They will ship it directly to him and he will install an electronic ignition. You can also get it with the really small spark plug which might eliminate a spark plug hole.
I have a ZDZ80RV in my Super Decathlon and love it. I don't think the spark plug cover would be too noticeable. Another choice might be the ZDZ80 twin or the the Zenoah GT-80 twin.
Another thought might be to contact Ralph Cunningham (RCU user name RCIGN1) and he will tell you where you can get a new G-62 for a great price. They will ship it directly to him and he will install an electronic ignition. You can also get it with the really small spark plug which might eliminate a spark plug hole.
09-27-2006, 02:31 PM
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RE: Gary Allen 33% Bücker Jungmeister
Hi Guys,
I think the GT80 will fit in the cowl, I am planning on using a Z445 on my airplane and it looks like it will just fit if the it rotated correctly to fit in the blisters. Also I saw somewhere that you can buy short spark plugs for tight fitting engines but I don't know if they are any good. Someone asked about the fuselage longerons, they can be bent as Ken did, or being a full scale mechanic they can be scarfed as I did. The scarf is 12 to 1 with the one being the thickness of the material, and I did it with a dremel sander and just adjusted it till it fit correctly. Someone also asked about the engine details, the plans and photo dealer in CA has a number of photo packs on the airplane and the engine which show it in great detail.
Charliek
I think the GT80 will fit in the cowl, I am planning on using a Z445 on my airplane and it looks like it will just fit if the it rotated correctly to fit in the blisters. Also I saw somewhere that you can buy short spark plugs for tight fitting engines but I don't know if they are any good. Someone asked about the fuselage longerons, they can be bent as Ken did, or being a full scale mechanic they can be scarfed as I did. The scarf is 12 to 1 with the one being the thickness of the material, and I did it with a dremel sander and just adjusted it till it fit correctly. Someone also asked about the engine details, the plans and photo dealer in CA has a number of photo packs on the airplane and the engine which show it in great detail.
Charliek
09-27-2006, 02:57 PM
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RE: Gary Allen 33% Bücker Jungmeister
Thanks Ken. I have a line on a new G-62 with electronic ing. and several other mods for $425. it looks like the way I may go at this point. Have to keep the costs down on this one. The ZDZ is my first choice but with a muffler of any type it is still going to be about $300.00 more.
Steve
Steve
09-27-2006, 04:32 PM
#231
RE: Gary Allen 33% Bücker Jungmeister
This plane was designed for a G-45 which would be a little on the light side in my opinion. More power is better as long as you can keep it in the cowl.
Something I just don't understand unless it's because it's not an ARF. For years I have been participating in 4 to 6 big bird flyins here in Texas and Oklahoma and I have yet to see my first giant scale Bucker Jungmeister other than my own. There is always a lot of interest in it but no one ever builds one other than you guys. I don't consider this a difficult plane to build, just a lot of parts and pieces. My electric Dumas 35" ws Waco YMF-5 was harder to build even though it took less time.
Something I just don't understand unless it's because it's not an ARF. For years I have been participating in 4 to 6 big bird flyins here in Texas and Oklahoma and I have yet to see my first giant scale Bucker Jungmeister other than my own. There is always a lot of interest in it but no one ever builds one other than you guys. I don't consider this a difficult plane to build, just a lot of parts and pieces. My electric Dumas 35" ws Waco YMF-5 was harder to build even though it took less time.
09-28-2006, 08:24 AM
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RE: Gary Allen 33% Bücker Jungmeister
ORIGINAL: Big_Bird
This plane was designed for a G-45 which would be a little on the light side in my opinion. More power is better as long as you can keep it in the cowl.
Something I just don't understand unless it's because it's not an ARF. For years I have been participating in 4 to 6 big bird flyins here in Texas and Oklahoma and I have yet to see my first giant scale Bucker Jungmeister other than my own. There is always a lot of interest in it but no one ever builds one other than you guys. I don't consider this a difficult plane to build, just a lot of parts and pieces. My electric Dumas 35" ws Waco YMF-5 was harder to build even though it took less time.
This plane was designed for a G-45 which would be a little on the light side in my opinion. More power is better as long as you can keep it in the cowl.
Something I just don't understand unless it's because it's not an ARF. For years I have been participating in 4 to 6 big bird flyins here in Texas and Oklahoma and I have yet to see my first giant scale Bucker Jungmeister other than my own. There is always a lot of interest in it but no one ever builds one other than you guys. I don't consider this a difficult plane to build, just a lot of parts and pieces. My electric Dumas 35" ws Waco YMF-5 was harder to build even though it took less time.
I'll be asking some questions of you along the way as I get started on this build.
Steve
09-28-2006, 11:23 AM
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RE: Gary Allen 33% Bücker Jungmeister
Hi Ken,
This is Richard down on the coast near Beaumont Texas. I have one of the early Arizona 1/3 scale short kits and plan to build my Bucker this fall and winter. Your thread and several other things got me going again. I normally fly 35% Extras but lately the scale bug has bitten again. I used to go to Bomber but my last visit there was scary with a near mid air involving me and a guy flying the wrong way and later a large four engine bomber crashed near some people. I am in process of getting everything together to get started. I have reviewed you entire thread and it is a big help. thanks very much for all the details and pictures. On the subject of a dummy engine today Jamie at Arizona asked me for pictures of the engine and he may provide a kit. I also found this http://www.aerotechmodels.com/dummy.htm The 9.5 seven cylinder dummy looks like it will fit. It is a P&W though.
The current plan is to use a Brison 4.8 twin that will fit in the cowl. It is about the same power and weight as your 4.2.
I ripped the spruce last summer from a odds and ends pack from Aircraft spruce co. I'll keep the group posted on the engine kit.
I hope to get started in about mid October.
Richard
This is Richard down on the coast near Beaumont Texas. I have one of the early Arizona 1/3 scale short kits and plan to build my Bucker this fall and winter. Your thread and several other things got me going again. I normally fly 35% Extras but lately the scale bug has bitten again. I used to go to Bomber but my last visit there was scary with a near mid air involving me and a guy flying the wrong way and later a large four engine bomber crashed near some people. I am in process of getting everything together to get started. I have reviewed you entire thread and it is a big help. thanks very much for all the details and pictures. On the subject of a dummy engine today Jamie at Arizona asked me for pictures of the engine and he may provide a kit. I also found this http://www.aerotechmodels.com/dummy.htm The 9.5 seven cylinder dummy looks like it will fit. It is a P&W though.
The current plan is to use a Brison 4.8 twin that will fit in the cowl. It is about the same power and weight as your 4.2.
I ripped the spruce last summer from a odds and ends pack from Aircraft spruce co. I'll keep the group posted on the engine kit.
I hope to get started in about mid October.
Richard
09-28-2006, 12:48 PM
#234
RE: Gary Allen 33% Bücker Jungmeister
WOW! This is the most action that this thread has seen in a long time. Several of you building the Jungie.
Richard, the 9.5" dummy from Aero Tech Models should fit fine. I used the less expensive one from http://www.bobdivelymodels.com/3.htm
It is very light and I only used the front half. The Brison 4.8 is a very good engine. A friend has one in his KI-84.
I also fly a 33% Extra 300S with a Brison 6.4.
I found Bomber Field to be pretty well controlled this year. The only time it gets a little hairy is when you have several fire breathing warbirds in the air at the same time competing for the same chunk of air space. I usually land at that point and wait for a calmer period.
Richard, the 9.5" dummy from Aero Tech Models should fit fine. I used the less expensive one from http://www.bobdivelymodels.com/3.htm
It is very light and I only used the front half. The Brison 4.8 is a very good engine. A friend has one in his KI-84.
I also fly a 33% Extra 300S with a Brison 6.4.
I found Bomber Field to be pretty well controlled this year. The only time it gets a little hairy is when you have several fire breathing warbirds in the air at the same time competing for the same chunk of air space. I usually land at that point and wait for a calmer period.
09-28-2006, 05:21 PM
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RE: Gary Allen 33% Bücker Jungmeister
I flew Gary's "contest " Jungmeister in Team Scale with Gary at 23 lbs with aG62. My recommendation is no less than a G62 , which gave good power and vertical , but certainly not unlimited.
By the way , the Jungmeister did absolutely the best stall turns I've ever done in competition - consistently a 9.5 out of 10 maneuver.
Gary sold the Jungmeister , and I'll miss it - a great flying airplane. Check out Andreas Luthi flying the Jungie in World Scale competition - unbelievable - he really flys it well. I think he had a G62 on alcohol on that plane , but I'm not sure.
Dorin Luck
By the way , the Jungmeister did absolutely the best stall turns I've ever done in competition - consistently a 9.5 out of 10 maneuver.
Gary sold the Jungmeister , and I'll miss it - a great flying airplane. Check out Andreas Luthi flying the Jungie in World Scale competition - unbelievable - he really flys it well. I think he had a G62 on alcohol on that plane , but I'm not sure.
Dorin Luck
09-29-2006, 10:16 AM
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RE: Gary Allen 33% Bücker Jungmeister
Hello Dorin,
Thank you for the comments on the Jungmeister. Makes me want to move up the start date and get building. That confirms what I have heard about the 1/3 scale version's flying abilities. I have been somewhat spoiled by flying 35% aerobatic aircraft. They go were you tell them at the instant you tell them. I almost hate to fly something like a tower trainer or a overweight scale plane. So it looks like the considerable effort required to really build this plane should be worth it. I plan to use a 78 cc brison twin that gave great service in an older 30% Staudacher. Some years back I built a 101 Ziroli T-6 from scratch including cutting the kit myself, so I feel pretty good about building this from a nice short kit.
Richard
Thank you for the comments on the Jungmeister. Makes me want to move up the start date and get building. That confirms what I have heard about the 1/3 scale version's flying abilities. I have been somewhat spoiled by flying 35% aerobatic aircraft. They go were you tell them at the instant you tell them. I almost hate to fly something like a tower trainer or a overweight scale plane. So it looks like the considerable effort required to really build this plane should be worth it. I plan to use a 78 cc brison twin that gave great service in an older 30% Staudacher. Some years back I built a 101 Ziroli T-6 from scratch including cutting the kit myself, so I feel pretty good about building this from a nice short kit.
Richard
09-30-2006, 08:54 AM
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RE: Gary Allen 33% Bücker Jungmeister
Gary's competition Jungmeister is in very good hands - Matt Chapman , the Cap 580 full scale pilot , now owns the Jungmeister , and really enjoys flying it , as I understand it. I would love to have owned the Jungie , but Matt made Gary an offer he couldn't refuse.
Gary Allen is now retired , and I'm trying to talk him into building a 40% Jungie with a DA 100 for team scale competition.
Not only is Gary's design accurate to outline , it is a durable model as designed that holds up to a lot of flying.
Dorin Luck
Gary Allen is now retired , and I'm trying to talk him into building a 40% Jungie with a DA 100 for team scale competition.
Not only is Gary's design accurate to outline , it is a durable model as designed that holds up to a lot of flying.
Dorin Luck
10-10-2006, 10:59 AM
#240
RE: Gary Allen 33% Bücker Jungmeister
"Well it looks like he can do it. But the offer is always there. You might remember this but I'm about to start the 33% Jungmeister you have already done. I had to buy some new tools as I was building with a hammer and chisel before. I now have a very nice drill press and Proxxon miter saw as well as a Micromat table saw and a router attachment for a Proxxon roto tool. These tools will allow me to cut my own sticks as needed and haveing a good friend at a aircrafte spruce supply store enables me to get most lumber needed at little or no cost. I may in the future be asking you some questions about the Jungmeister construction, how ever your posted photos will be of great help. Just one question, What are your thoughts on a modifed G-62 for power for this plane? Engine will weigh about a pound lighter than a stock G-62 ?
Steve"
When I built the Jungie I used a modified Sachs-Dolmar 4.2 cu-in chainsaw engine. It is a little heavier than a G-62 engine which I used in my first Jungie. If you are able to keep the tail end really light you might get away with using the lightened G-62 and not have to add any balance weight. I don't have an ounce of balance weight in mine. I did install the receiver, 2 NiMH batteries and 3 servos on a tray right behind the pilot. This was because of balance and the fact that I didn't want any radio equipment showing in the front part of the fuselage.
I think I mentioned this earlier but here it is again. As designed the tail wheel wire is too small in diameter. With the main gear so far forward there is a lot of weight put on the tail wheel. Any less then perfect landing, my specialty, will bend the wire. I found that 5/32 wire is about right. You also need to beef up the tail wheel mount.
Strong crosswind. That's my story and I'm stickin to it.
Steve"
When I built the Jungie I used a modified Sachs-Dolmar 4.2 cu-in chainsaw engine. It is a little heavier than a G-62 engine which I used in my first Jungie. If you are able to keep the tail end really light you might get away with using the lightened G-62 and not have to add any balance weight. I don't have an ounce of balance weight in mine. I did install the receiver, 2 NiMH batteries and 3 servos on a tray right behind the pilot. This was because of balance and the fact that I didn't want any radio equipment showing in the front part of the fuselage.
I think I mentioned this earlier but here it is again. As designed the tail wheel wire is too small in diameter. With the main gear so far forward there is a lot of weight put on the tail wheel. Any less then perfect landing, my specialty, will bend the wire. I found that 5/32 wire is about right. You also need to beef up the tail wheel mount.
Strong crosswind. That's my story and I'm stickin to it.
10-10-2006, 12:26 PM
#241
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RE: Gary Allen 33% Bücker Jungmeister
Gary's balanced with a stock G62 with a Slimline Pits with no added weight. Agreed on the tail wheel wire - as designed it's too small. Gary and I had to rebend it occasionally , although it never broke.
Dorin
Dorin
11-19-2006, 11:11 AM
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RE: Gary Allen 33% Bücker Jungmeister
Hello from South Africa to everyone on this thread.
I am about to build this Bipe and would like to put a Saito 300 into it. It will fit in the cowl and will deliver 4.7Hp. I have it in my Focke Wulf 190 1:5 scale which weighs in at 30 lb.
IS 23 lb about right for this 1:3 Jungmeister?
I have not got all the gen yet, I am just gathering data and want to star soon !!
Alex
I am about to build this Bipe and would like to put a Saito 300 into it. It will fit in the cowl and will deliver 4.7Hp. I have it in my Focke Wulf 190 1:5 scale which weighs in at 30 lb.
IS 23 lb about right for this 1:3 Jungmeister?
I have not got all the gen yet, I am just gathering data and want to star soon !!
Alex
11-19-2006, 12:47 PM
#243
RE: Gary Allen 33% Bücker Jungmeister
Alex, let me be the first to welcome you to this thread. Sounds like the Saito 300 will be a good choice providing you are careful about keeping the weight down on the back end.
My Jungie weighs 27 pounds with a Sachs-Dolmar 4.2 cu-in engine. There is not a bit of added balance weight. All of the radio equipment with the exception of the engine battery is mounted close behind the pilot's seat. I wanted all of the radio stuff hidden. If need be, for balance, the receiver battery, etc could be mounted forward of the pilot. A significant part of the weight of the plane is the main landing gear structure but it is a necessary evil.
My Jungie weighs 27 pounds with a Sachs-Dolmar 4.2 cu-in engine. There is not a bit of added balance weight. All of the radio equipment with the exception of the engine battery is mounted close behind the pilot's seat. I wanted all of the radio stuff hidden. If need be, for balance, the receiver battery, etc could be mounted forward of the pilot. A significant part of the weight of the plane is the main landing gear structure but it is a necessary evil.
11-20-2006, 11:02 AM
#244
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RE: Gary Allen 33% Bücker Jungmeister
Thanks Ken for the Welcome...I am a little discombobulated because I just spent 1/2Hr writing a long post when I was given the "sorry timed out" screen!!!
Anyway, to summarise, I am happy to be doing this build because everyone knows what it's like deliberating on the next project...I wanted more of the balsa shavings type of building and the Hanriot was a candidate for a while till I thought of the aerobatic capabilities, or lack thereof, in the Hanriot (there is a great thread on this site)
Anyway, as for engine,my pal has as G62 spare, so I may think on that, I want it to fit ALL inside though, I must look and see if it will.
Do any of you guys know where I can find detail pictures of the Jungie? I have found some, but close up detail is what I want to do....not the same writing this post for a second time!!! ANYWAY..thanks for the welcome and I will be phoning Arizona to order the short kit, maybe just the cowl, spats and rigging hardware although it all looks straightforward even the cowl! but time is better spent detailing I think...all the best Alex...better luck this time I hope!@!!! Why didn't it just save what I had written in "Drafts" or something???/
Anyway, to summarise, I am happy to be doing this build because everyone knows what it's like deliberating on the next project...I wanted more of the balsa shavings type of building and the Hanriot was a candidate for a while till I thought of the aerobatic capabilities, or lack thereof, in the Hanriot (there is a great thread on this site)
Anyway, as for engine,my pal has as G62 spare, so I may think on that, I want it to fit ALL inside though, I must look and see if it will.
Do any of you guys know where I can find detail pictures of the Jungie? I have found some, but close up detail is what I want to do....not the same writing this post for a second time!!! ANYWAY..thanks for the welcome and I will be phoning Arizona to order the short kit, maybe just the cowl, spats and rigging hardware although it all looks straightforward even the cowl! but time is better spent detailing I think...all the best Alex...better luck this time I hope!@!!! Why didn't it just save what I had written in "Drafts" or something???/
11-20-2006, 12:24 PM
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RE: Gary Allen 33% Bücker Jungmeister
Ken, looked for your mail....don't have it in RCuniverse's inbox? and you probably don't have my normal email address.
I have had a long read of your thread though, looked at all the pictures and followed all the links!! Great thread and your model is just the standard I am aiming for, you have the advantage however of having a fullsize somewhere near you!!
Alex
I have had a long read of your thread though, looked at all the pictures and followed all the links!! Great thread and your model is just the standard I am aiming for, you have the advantage however of having a fullsize somewhere near you!!
Alex
11-20-2006, 01:24 PM
#247
RE: Gary Allen 33% Bücker Jungmeister
ORIGINAL: alpal
you have the advantage however of having a fullsize somewhere near you!!
Alex
you have the advantage however of having a fullsize somewhere near you!!
Alex
I sent you some detailed photos.
11-20-2006, 01:53 PM
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RE: Gary Allen 33% Bücker Jungmeister
Ken, I don't see where you posted the mail to??
As I said, it isn't in the rcuniverse mailbox as far as I can tell.... my own mail is : [email protected] can you try that????
All the best
Alex
As I said, it isn't in the rcuniverse mailbox as far as I can tell.... my own mail is : [email protected] can you try that????
All the best
Alex
11-20-2006, 04:18 PM
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RE: Gary Allen 33% Bücker Jungmeister
RCS has just announced a RCS 150 Radial engine. Weighs ~ 7.7 lbs with the ignition. I wonder if that engine would fit? I have the plans for the bucker but haven't checked to see if it would fit in the cowl. The width of the engine is 8.54 inches.
Check it out. http://www.rcshowcase.com/html/RCS/rcs150.html
Check it out. http://www.rcshowcase.com/html/RCS/rcs150.html