Greg Covey

I replaced the stock nylon 1/4-20 bolts with some Hillman 1/4-20 furniture bolts. The Hillman bolts have a built-in washer and a hex socket head for easy assembly. These are available at most home improvement stores.

I tested the ailerons and elevator control without powering the motor. Everything worked great! The JR Matchboxes made it easy to route all 4 aileron servos to one box. I could conveniently fine tune the servo position with just a tiny screwdriver to select the channel and then use the pushbuttons to vary the offset. The MatchBox on my two elevator servos also let me easily reverse the direction of one so they both work together for up and down movement.

The big 100" span plane takes up a good portion of my living room!

Greg Covey

Hi Henke,

I'm still building. In fact, I'm still designing the power system.

I finished the elevator servos and then decided it was time to put the tail and wing together for the first time.

I haven't fired-up my power system with a prop yet but have already decided to be proactive by ordering 10 more Kokam 2.1AH cells to make a 10s3p, 6AH configuration, if needed. Even if I don't need the current delivery, the extra 2AH capacity will be welcome. I also ordered an APC 22x10 e-prop in case the 20" prop doesn't work out. I have plenty of ground clearance.

Anders

My Feedback: (4)

Greg,

Do you have a weight as it sits right there???

Anders

Greg Covey

Anders,

No, I wasn't going to weigh it until the rudder and gear mains are installed.

I usually don't concern myself with the weight of an ARF like this. It is built incredibly light and the specifications have it listed as 22.5-25.5lbs depending upon engine used; G-62 or GT-80. It has also been my experience that this would not likely include the 32 ounces of fuel for the stock tank.

red_z06

My Feedback: (11)

Greg:

What is the current status of your edge 540 conversion?

regards,

Anders

My Feedback: (4)

I just powered up my Actro 40-5, and man what a difference, compared to my old AXIs 4130/XXs. The stator's wound are so much denser, thicker wire all the way through. It weighs a little bit more, and seems more sturdy all the way through. I am also happy I don't have to use the rear stop screw/washer/load bearing, like the Axi. These bearings are sealed differently too. Oh well, time will tell. I am a lot more comfortable pushing 60-70 Amps through these windings compared to my AXI though.... Actro claims peak efficiency on the -5 wound around 50 Amps at 90%. How far can I push the Amps? Can 10S hold around 36 volts, under load, around 60-70 Amps? 2100 to 2500 watts somewhere...

Darrell B.

Greg,
I think that it is a good idea to have the extra reserve power on your batteries. Are you using connectors to hook them up, or are you soldering them? I am anxiously watching and waiting for you performance report on the Actro 40-4. I noticed that Model Motors lists the 53 series motor on their website, but they don't list any information. If you can take a tachometer reading, would you be able to give us an rpm reading with the Actro under load. Thans for all of your hard work and pioneering. There will be many of us that will benefit from your efforts. You are doing a great job.
Good Luck,
Darrell Button

Greg Covey

You guys are confusing me with some of your questions. I must not be as clear as I thought.

Red,

I would think the current status of my Edge is obvious since I am posting it here as I go.

Anders,

I don't know just how much current the Actro 40-5 can handle. I would expect at least 60amps, if not 70amps. I'll be able to answer the Kokam loading questions when I fire up my system. My suspicion was that it could not handle 60-70amps...which is why I am preparing to go to a 3p configuration instead of 2p. The nice thing is that it is just an easy plug-in solution using the Kokam Parallel Connector modules.

Darrell,

My flight pack technique is documented above in photos. I removed most of the wire and connectors from stock Kokam 2-cell 2100 packs to create 4s and 6s packs with short connections. The 4s and 6s packs are then paralleled into Kokam Parallel Connector modules that I additionally beefed-up with soldered 12# wire. (not sure if the extra wire is needed but it can't hurt)

To switch from my current 10s2p configuration to a 10s3p configuration, I simply create one more 4s and 6s pack and replace the 2-plug Parallel Connector Module with a 4 plug module. I'll then use the 3-plug module for my three 6s packs and the 4-plug module for my three 4s packs plus the FMA Power Force regulator input plug. The Kokam Parallel Connector modules come with 5 plugs and you just cut off what you don't need with a Dremel tool.

Darrell B.

Thanks Greg.

That is what I figured! Well Sorta...
It is all much clearer now.
Darrell

Greg Covey

I finished up my tail assembly by installing the "monster" rudder. I used the single servo method with DS8611. The H9 Edge 540 is designed for either one or two servos. The other side is already covered if you don't use it.

I found my older kitchen chairs very useful in the rudder and gear assembly stages. They swivel in either direction, have wheels t move around, and, have padded arms to securely hold the plane.

Next, it was on to the landing gear!

Greg Covey

The gear mains installed fairly easily. It helped to have some long fingers to start the nylock nuts and then you could fit a socket wrench inside the fuselage while tightening it with an allen wrench underneath. Note that the gear cowl that fits on the fuselage bottom is sheeted foam. Everything seemed to fit perfectly!

The fiberglass gear mains were very light! The pants installed without any issues. The wheels are held on both sides with collars.

The tailwheel is a large Ohio Superstar assembly that firmly mounts an assembly to the hardwood tail bottom. The wheel is on a tiller bar that is then connected to the rudder via springs to absorb any shock.

Greg Covey

I finally had an opportunity to test my Edge 540 power system. I did the testing outside for safety and essentially got another lesson in giant scale projects.

The power level was incredibly strong and it surprised me! I could barely hold the plane while working the throttle. It pulled like no other plane I have ever tested. Although I got three good test runs in for measurements, I won't be doing it again by myself.

I was surprised to measure 2500 watts at 85amps on only 3/4 throttle! I wouldn't even try full throttle since this was more power than I was expecting on my 10s2p Kokam 4.2AH pack. I guess that answers my cell voltage under load question.

I'll still plan on switching to a 3p configuration for increased capacity but I may consider also switching to an 8s or 9s voltage since I like how my APC 20x10 e-prop performed. The prop had been balanced before I mounted it and the vibration was nice and light at 3/4 throttle.

Darrell B.

[X(]2500 Watts @ 3/4 throttle[X(]

Greg, do you think that your setup would turn the APC 22x12?
Can you get us a tach reading?
Did I miss where you said which ESC you are using?
How much do you think that the Amps will unload in the air?

Sorry for all of the Questions, I'm just excited about your findings.

I think that you just helped me make up my mind about the P-51!

Fantastic work Greg.

Darrell

Greg Covey

Darrell,

The 22" prop will easily fit the plane and have plenty of ground clearance. I would recommend switching to the Actro 40-5 for a 22" prop.

I'll get an RPM reading after I figure out my component limits. The Jeti 77-amp Opto ESC will likely handle peak currents to 90 amps for a short period but I will first confirm this from Hobby Lobby. I will also ask about the peak currents for the Actro 40-4 but I expect this not to be a problem for short periods.

We typically assume 10%-15% unloading in the air. I usually use 10% because it's an easy calculation in your head. Soon, we'll be able to measure that with a new product from FMA Direct. I have a prototype device that i'll be installing on another project shortly.

The combination of in-flight unloading, throttle management, and short term peak capabilities may make my setup ok as it is. The only change would be a shift from a 2p to a 3p Lithium configuration that would increase flight duration and more closely mimic the new 3.2AH cells just around the corner.

Darrell B.

Greg,
When you talk to Hobby Lobby, could you ask them what they feel that the max amp draw on the 40-5 would be? I know that it won't be as high as the 40-4 .
I look froward to your flight report. Have you gotten along far enought to tell what the AUW is going to be yet?
Thanks for your hard work.
Good Luck,
Darrell

Greg Covey

It appears that the short period specs for the Actro 40-4 are 70amps and 55amps for the 40-5 motor.

The Jeti 77-amp will "likely" handle 20% more for short periods which is about 90amps.

I will either try things as they are now and use good throttle management or perhaps reduce my prop size to 19". The plane should fly well at only 30-40 amps.

Hopefully, on Wednesday, we'll ground test the Edge 540 here at work to check things out and measure the CG. I'll also try to measure the weight with and without batteries.

Darrell B.

Thanks Greg.[8D]

Darrell

Greg Covey

I'm all ready for my ground test today at lunchtime. The Edge 540 just fit into my Ford Explorer.

I converted my Lithium pack to a 10s3p configuration of Kokam 2.1AH (20C) cells for a total capacity of 6.3AH that can deliver over 120amps continuous so I will not be stressing the pack and will have a reasonable flight time.

Here are some weight measurements:
[ul][*] 10s2p Kokam 4.2AH (20C) pack = 59oz (3.7lbs)[*] 10s3p Kokam 6.3AH (20C) pack = 88.5oz (5.5lbs)[*] Wing half RTF = 37.5oz[*] Edge 540 RTF less wings and batteries = 160oz (10lbs)
[/ul]

All up with the 10s3p Lithium pack, my Edge 540 is RTF at 20.2lbs. It would have been 18.4lbs with my original 10s2p pack which was very close to my original target goal.

Also shown is my final component layout using two JR Matchboxes, JR receiver, and FMA Power Force regulator. I mounted the failsafe On/Off switch per the manual.

Greg Covey

The first ground test on my Edge 540 gave us some good information and I discovered that there is still some work to be done.

The vertical stabilizer looks like it was damaged in shipping so I need to remove a portion of the covering and see if any gluing is needed. I had noticed that the rudder fit was not as perfect as any of the other sections but ignored it at the time.

I'm slightly tailheavy yet so I'll try moving the 1.2lb Lithium 6s pack that currently sits outside the motor box into the cowl area. I also need to open up an air exit on the bottom of my cowl.

My spinner spacer is slightly warped causing a minor wobble so we'll replace the 5 washers with a single steel spacer.

Although I could taxi around the field without issue and throttle up to 3/4 while holding the tail, at full throttle, the ESC shut off after we had throttled off for a few seconds before resetting. I may try cutting 1/4" off of each prop tip or order some 20x8 props to reduce the current along with fixing the spinner wobble.

I'll post a video of the ground test soon...

Greg Covey

Here is the ground test video for the Edge 540. It was very windy out so we kept the speed to a minimum. The lot behind our parking area is a bit rough but it worked.

[link=http://www.gregcovey.com/RCU2/Edge540.wmv]Edge 540 Ground Test[/link] (3meg)

stumax

Getting exciting, Greg! I flew my first big electric model a couple of weeks ago (65" Me109E) and it's just such a buzz compared to the smelly, noisy IC counterparts. It would be great to see for this one a cost breakdown of going electric VS IC (perhaps using slghtly cheaper cells than the 20C ones). I think when the giant 3D guys find out how much more managable and linear an electric model's throttle response is we'll see alot more of these big conversions. The more the merrier!

Greg Covey

Thanks, Stu.

I hope to do a cost analysis when I am finished. I'll initially fly it here in New York before the ground is covered with snow (and you guys have some Summer fun). The Kokam 2.1AH cells are really considered a temporary solution until the less expensive and more practical 3.2AH cells arrive in packs up to 5s and 3p in size. These pre-made packs will also have connections for true cell balancing. The initial batch of 100 units from Kokam have already been tested and passed their 20C specs. These cells are truly impressive and will re-define the world of glow to electric conversions!

I'm sure that you are already aware of the fact that the cost of electric conversions goes up dramatically once you reach the 1.20-size plane and higher. However, that cost of conversion continues to drop almost at a monthly pace. The evolution of electric flight is often difficult to keep up with even when you are an avid fan!

I expect my conversion design will change over the Winter months.

Anders

My Feedback: (4)

OK,

Got my interest...

If I do this:

Use two of my 9S1P packs 2600 mAh, each one is 17 ounces roughly... for a total of 34 ounces of battery weight. - saves 88.5 - 34 = 54.5 ounces (1.75 ounce per cell times 18 cells, plus connectors)
Use one 8411 per aileron instead of two saves two ounces per side, plus some hardware is three ounces for a wing weight of 34 ounces each
One 8411 on pull-pull elevator for a two ounces saving plus some hardware, maybe three ounces,

and a total weight of:

160 ounces fuse
34 *2 wings
32 battery

equals 260 ounces... Is this realistic?

Dump the power force regulator, switch to something a little bit lighter...

If so, I am happy with two HD aileron servos on a 16 pound airplane, and one elevator servo.

I can use around 2000 watts from my power system on the Actro motor (72 Amps draw burst from the 2600 in parallell) which yields 120+ watts per pound...

Am I missing something. If not, I am in for a new machine too..

Greg Covey

I have a concern about your use of only 1 servo per aileron but will have to let a giant scale expert really make a meaningful comment on it.

As for the battery weight of only 34oz, you'll never get the plane to balance. The Edge 540 was designed for a big heavy gas guzzlin' engine up front. My 88oz pack will just balance it...hopefully.

Anders

My Feedback: (4)

Thanks for the feedback Greg, exactly what I was looking for. As far as the aileron servo goes, it is a compromise. I have limited concerns about flutter, if I cross thread the ailerons, I have done it before on 100+ inch span (33% gasser) On my 35% and 40% er I always used two servos per...

As far as batteries and balance goes, I would reduce 54 ounces in the nose compared to your setup. If you have two elevator servos plus hardware and wires in the tail, that will weigh around 6-8 ounces... times a moment arm of 4-5 ap. so it would be like removing 24 - 40 ounces in the nose. I don't see your rudder servo, but If you have the rudder servo in the middle of the fuse, I gain nothing, but if you have it in the tail I gain another 12 - 20 ounces in the nose if I move it to the wing saddle area, which puts the total at 36 - 60 ounces. If not, then I have to shift the wing back on the fuse 1-2 inches, to regain the balance. I have done it before - no big deal. Keep your reports coming, great info...