JUST RECEIVED MY SEAWIND, AND AM CRUSHED, ACTUALLY THE PLANE WAS CRUSHED, THE CANOPY WAS DESTROYED THE LEFT WING AND WING TIPS ARE BROKEN THE CENTER SERVO MOUNT IS MISSING, PROBABLY IN THE FUSE SOMEWHERE, AND GOING TO CONTACT TOWER NOW AND HOPEFULLY THEY HAVE PARTS.

AM STILL CURIOUS ABOUT ELECTRIC ENGINES?

GUESS WHAT? TOWER IS OUT OF STOCK AND IS HAVING ME SEND THE ORDER BACK, AND THEN I HAVE TO WAIT UNTIL THEY GET A NEW SUPPLY, I GUESS IT COULD BE WORSE.

SEAMS THAT HTERE IS AN AWFUL LOT OF DAMAGE TO THIS AIRCRAFT SO MAYBE THEY SHOULD BE PACKAGING BETTER

I have ordered and received three ARF aircraft and 2 RTF boats from Tower over the past 6 months, all were cheaply made and or defective. It seems that their products are manufactured in Asian countries and they just havent found the right manufacturer. I have found, by talking to my clients, that there are many good manufacturing companies in China, however, there are many bad ones also. Tower's importers only found the bad ones. It's just a darn shame, many of the hobby products become throw away items before they even get to the flying field.

The products all have design and manufacturing defects, built in fatal flaws that make the item useless. However, Tower still provides good support service and they handled all complaints in a professional manner by giving credits or sending after market replacement parts. I'm kinda getting the feeling that Tower is slipping into being just another toy company.

From now on I will not buy kits from Tower, only hobby supplies. The only way to stop the sale of defective products is to speak up. We hobbiests are just inclined to fix the item and not say anything, this, in my opinion, hurts the hobby.

Al G.

P.S. Tower's prices on Kokam LiPros is very good. Compare the price on the 3S, 2000 MAH packs (Cell Pro), you will see what I mean.

Strange that some have very little of no damage and others are beyond hope. I wonder if somebody dropped a container or something. They must not be looking at the kits before they leave the warehouse. Mine must have been at the bottom of the pile. It shipped about 11/23. I opened it on 12/3. With only a small crack in the canopy. I sometimes wonder about the UPS/FedEx/DHL delivery people as well. I never have a issue with stuff coming to me, but stuff going to one particular area I have lots of issues with. Oh well. good thing it's so cold out anyway.

UP HERE IN THE NORTHWEST IT IS PERFECT FLYING EATHER, IT IS ABOUT 45 DERGREES AND THIS TIME OF YEAR WE GET A LITTLE MORNING FOG TAHT BURNSOFF BY AROUND 10 AND THERE IS NO WIND AT ALL, OH WELL I WILL HAVE TO WAIT UNTIL NEXT YEAR, AS ACCORDING TO TOWER THE SEAWIND IS BACK ORDERED UNTIL LATE DECEMBER OR EARLY JANUARY AND THEY WANTED MY WHOLE KIT BACK

That would be great weather, I agree. Our water is a bit "hard" right now.

Has anyone gotten anywhere on this project? I couldn't find a setup of motor and battery that would work (using motocalc). That is unless I added 10" to each wing. I believe it can be done however. So lets not give up.

I have an AXI 4130/20 and will be using two 4S 4200 mah packs. I am planning on using a 4 blade Vario prop in order to get the most out of the outrunner. I do think there are some facts about this aircraft most people are overlooking. Everyone is quick to dismiss it as an electric candidate because of the high wing loading. However, it does fly on glow power WITH retracts, which, by my calculations, would be heavier than an electric without retracts by about two pounds. A large amount of the weight savings comes from the ability to balance the aircraft using the battery packs. If you look at many of the glow build forums, everyone is having to put around 13 oz of lead in the nose to balance out the heavier glow motor and fuel tank. Thats almost 1 lb of weight we electric guys save right off the bat folks! Also, I believe the wing loading issue is being blown out of proportion. I fly jets (full scale) for a living and belive me there is a lot of lift that comes from other places than just the wing to keep them in the air. The point is, if you look at the seawind, the hull itself will be a tremedous lifting surface once airborne. In my humble opinion, only taking the wing area into consideration to calculate the wing loading on this aircraft is simply inaccurate. I am currently building the seawind right now. When I return from my flight today, I will have an entire week to devote to this awsome aircraft. I will be posting my progress and findings later on in this forum. Lets keep this going!

Yup, I agree completely. that's why I'm not giving up. I have a Hacker, C50-14XL that I think will work well, might even be over kill, and a AXI 4120, that I think may be marginal. Being Christmas time, I don't think I be buying any other motors for a while. The gearing (6.33/1) may not work so well with a smaller dia prop though. Hummm, back to motocalc

I ran a Motocalc estimate with the AXI and 8S lipos. I added 100 sq in to make an allowance for the fuse lifting surface (a guess, I know). It looks very possible. At least enough so to keep my interest up. I'll try the Hacker next.


MotOpinion - Untitled
800ft above Sea Level, 29.92inHg, 60°F

Motor: Model Motors AXI AC4130/20; 305rpm/V; 1.6A no-load; 0.099 Ohms.
Battery: Thunder Power TP2100; 8 series x 3 parallel cells; 2100mAh @ 3.7V; 0.022 Ohms/cell.
Speed Control: Generic Brushless ESC; 0.006 Ohms; High rate.
Drive System: APC 12x8 Electric; 12x8 3-bladed (Pconst=1.08; Tconst=1) direct drive.
Airframe: seawind; 776sq.in; 132.8oz; 24.6oz/sq.ft; Cd=0.046; Cl=0.48; Clopt=0.63; Clmax=1.11.
Stats: 70 W/lb in; 59 W/lb out; 24mph stall; 33mph opt @ 63% (101:09, 96°F); 37mph level @ 70% (86:38, 100°F); 1130ft/min @ 23.2°; -252ft/min @ -5°.

Power System Notes:

The full-throttle motor current at the best lift-to-drag ratio airspeed (19.3A) falls between the motor's maximum efficiency current (19.4A) and its current at theoretical maximum output (118.2A), thus making effective use of the motor.
The voltage (28.3V) exceeds 12V. Be sure the speed control is rated for at least the number of cells specified above.

Aerodynamic Notes:

The static pitch speed (60mph) is within the range of approximately 2.5 to 3 times the model's stall speed (24mph), which is considered ideal for good performance.
With a wing loading of 24.6oz/sq.ft, a model of this size will have flying characteristics suited to the intermediate pilot, for use in calm to moderate wind conditions.
The static thrust (91.6oz) to weight (132.8oz) ratio is 0.69:1, which will result in short take-off runs, and no difficulty taking off from grass surfaces (assuming sufficiently large wheels).
At the best lift-to-drag ratio airspeed, the excess-thrust (52.5oz) to weight (132.8oz) ratio is 0.4:1, which will give strong climbs and rapid acceleration. This model will most likely readily loop from level flight, and have sufficient in-flight thrust for many aerobatic maneuvers.

General Notes:

This analysis is based on calculations that take motor heating effects into account.

Hey guys... just got my Seawind for Christmas. I too am interested in possibly going electric with this plane. I already have an AXI 4130/20 and an AXI 4120/14. Anybody come up with any more possible setups?

John

To maintain a smaller prop like 13" size on a 10lb-12lb plane and provide awesome performance, you need a high Kv motor capable of turning high RPMs/v and peaks of 1500w-2000w power output.

One such motor is the [link=http://www.hobby-lobby.com/actro-32.htm]Actro 32-3[/link] at Hobby Lobby.

I recently did a similar hop-up to my 9lb Lil Toni Racer from Great Planes. I decided to swap out the entire power system with new components that could easily handle a 2000 watt power level. The new [link=http://www.fmadirect.com/new_applications/BPHDSplashPG/index.htm]BalancePro HD[/link] (formerly Skyvolt) system from FMA Direct provided the ultimate Lithium pack operation and safety needed for this high-performance aircraft. The 6s2p BalancePro HD 6400mAh pack weighs 39oz. and can deliver 2100 watt power levels without any stress, excessive heat, or loss of longevity. When using the BalancePro HD 6s charger and Discharge Protection Module (DPM), every cell of my Lithium pack is protected during charge or discharge. The DPM connection is made inside the fuselage but the final DPM-to-ESC connection using the Dean’s Ultra plug is made externally under the fuselage after the wing has been installed.

Note that a 6s1p Kokam 3200 pack will also work here but the lighter weight also has shorter flight times and less top end power. You'll need to adjust the prop for a 60amp peak current level.

The existing motor was changed to a an Actro 32-3 outrunner. Using the same 14x7 e-prop as before, the current now measured 104amps at 2200 watts. That was 244w/lb.! The new Phoenix HV 85 ESC provided great throttle control and was an over-kill for the 2200 watt application since it is capable of handling up to 4000 watts (or 5h.p.). Note that a [link=http://www.hobby-lobby.com/jetiblue.htm]Jeti 90-amp[/link] ESC will also work well. For the Seawind, the prop can be changed to a smaller 13x8 size and maintain a full throttle setting at around 1500 watts. A nice 12" 3-blade like the [link=http://www.hobby-lobby.com/grprop.htm]Graupner Super Props[/link] would look great on this model and provide similar performance to the 13" prop.

Good luck!

Anyone else get anywhere with this conversion? I've been stuck on a Cub build that should be done in a few weeks. The Cub uses a motor I have, while the Seawind is going to take a new motor purchase. My funds are limited after Christmas for a few weeks. I am going to look at the new E-Flite 60 sized motor however, seems like a good alternative to a AXI and they include the prop adapter mount etc. Anyone used one yet?

I heard from Hobbico recently so I should be getting my Seawind in a week or so. I'll likely still go with the Actro 32-3 for high RPM power using a smaller prop.

I have a hacker Brushless B50-13XL /1214 rpm, would this be a good choice ?

Sorry it's been a while, but the charter business is crazy right now. I have completed just about everything but the motor installation. The kit goes together beautifully. The problem I have is with battery wire length. For balance purposes I would really like to mount the batteries in the nose compartment, but this would require very long battery wires (around 30"). Does anyone have any ideas how to make this work without the dreaded voltage spikes to the speed controller?

Heavy gage wire...That's the only way I know. But it's not light either.

Hey everyone. There is a video of a successful EP conversion of a Seawind on Ezone. Looks like it flies great. Details are there as well. I am encouraged by this success to say the least.
Look here:

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...40#post4884786

A friend and I are building two seawinds. one gas and one electric

So far the electric, mine ~~~~~

Set up for water only - front wheel well has been sealed permanently - no retracts, etc

I will list what I am doing and if anyone has any suggestions please chime in.

AXI 4120 / 16
CastleC Phoenix 80
2 - 8,000 mah Thunderpower 3c4p running in series for 6s4p
zinger 13x10 3 blade prop
twisted 10g wire from motor down through pylon to the esc in the hull
ESC close to batteries

Trying to decide between the ultimate BEC or a seperate battery pack for servos and receiver. Any suggestions??????

PACKING of the kit was for the birds.
both canopies had to be replaced
formers in the pylon on one model had been broken.

It is amazing to me that they were allowed to be shipped in that condition. The manufacturer, when called, said well ... "i bet you need a new fuselage." Apparently they are having a great deal of problems with packing.

The conversion shown in the video cliup above has an E-Flite 60 powering the Seawind. It is interesting to have an EF60 and the AXI 4120/16 side by side. Spin the motor case on the EFlite and spin the motor case on the AXI. The AXI magnets must be at leat twice the strength of the EFDlite.

I wonder what effect that this has on the perfomance of the motor?

I am just putting a 4120 in a CG Cub. yup it does cog more than the E-Flite 60. I have the two of them side by side. But the rotating case on the E-Flite is about 1/2: longer than the Axi. I would assume that translates into more power, but that's just a guess. It will be interesting. I bought the e-Flite based on the performance of the plane in the video. Maybe I'll play a bit with motocalc and see if I can figure any real diff.

Hi Gouda,
Great minds, etc.

I am doing the same things --- a 4120/16 in 1/4 scale SIG cub. same batteries-- two 8000 mah TPs 3c4p in series = 6c4p

Whoops!

regarding my two lastb posts those are 4130/16 AXIs.

That makes much more sense....

Greg,

Just ran my Seawind for the first time, on the water. Used pretty much exactly the setup you recommended and it has PLENTY of power. Up on the step w. about 1/2 throttle w. ease. Interestingly, one wing was about 3 oz heavier than the other - ?? Won't try to fly her until more time step taxiing and getting the wings balanced. I suspect she's going to fly nicely.

The Actro 32-3 has lots of power as I discovered when I got the back of my hand a little too close to the prop -- a couple of hours in the ER getting tendons repaired!! Electric motors are distractingly quiet!!

Rich Sugden
Jackson, WY

I try to avoid ordering planes through the mail (unless it is a really good price) because of shipping damage expienced in the past.. I order through the LHS and check the box before I pay.



StephenT