About O.S #8 plugs!
11-01-2010, 09:29 AM
#76
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RE: About O.S #8 plugs!
The shorter O.S. plug installed in an engine is like adding another head shim or gasket which would change the timing for the worst where it is not needed, you would have to go another 5% increase in nitro to make things right, to me O.S. means (O) over-(S)spending, Besides their glow plugs who in their right minds would pay almost triple the amount for an engine with "Nickel" plated cylinder sleeves and bearings that only last 13 flights. The only good parts about OS is their carburetors, you cant beat an OS carburetor with a stick..About glow plugs, there are some after run oils that play literal Havoc with glow plugs, normaly petroleum based oils, the best one is Air tool oil that is parafin based and the glow plugs that tolerate this oil is the one and only Fox brand standard long gold series or idle bar depending on how cotrary your engine is and always avoid cruel power fuel, now that mean green stuff has no mercy on engines, you may be able to clean your airplane alot easier(from a lack of lubricant) but the inside of your engine will look like Freddie Crougar had Just visited. Remember Fox glow plugs, I have used them since Moby Dick was a minnow mid 80s and they have not ever changed....
11-01-2010, 09:44 AM
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RE: About O.S #8 plugs!
ORIGINAL: cutaway
Of the flyers you know, how many are even aware of a depth difference? In my club with hundreds of members, the ones who would even understand this discussion can be counted on one hand.
Of the flyers you know, how many are even aware of a depth difference? In my club with hundreds of members, the ones who would even understand this discussion can be counted on one hand.
To answer your question all the member of my club know this about the OS glow plug. And when they see my engines run they are true believers!
Is this revelation earth shattering? No, but it can add to the enjoyment of the hobby.
11-01-2010, 09:56 AM
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RE: About O.S #8 plugs!
ORIGINAL: greengoose
The shorter O.S. plug installed in an engine is like adding another head shim or gasket which would change the timing for the worst where it is not needed, you would have to go another 5% increase in nitro to make things right, to me O.S. means (O) over-(S)spending, Besides their glow plugs who in their right minds would pay almost triple the amount for an engine with ''Nickel'' plated cylinder sleeves and bearings that only last 13 flights. The only good parts about OS is their carburetors, you cant beat an OS carburetor with a stick..About glow plugs, there are some after run oils that play literal Havoc with glow plugs, normaly petroleum based oils, the best one is Air tool oil that is parafin based and the glow plugs that tolerate this oil is the one and only Fox brand standard long gold series or idle bar depending on how cotrary your engine is and always avoid cruel power fuel, now that mean green stuff has no mercy on engines, you may be able to clean your airplane alot easier(from a lack of lubricant) but the inside of your engine will look like Freddie Crougar had Just visited. Remember Fox glow plugs, I have used them since Moby Dick was a minnow mid 80s and they have not ever changed....
The shorter O.S. plug installed in an engine is like adding another head shim or gasket which would change the timing for the worst where it is not needed, you would have to go another 5% increase in nitro to make things right, to me O.S. means (O) over-(S)spending, Besides their glow plugs who in their right minds would pay almost triple the amount for an engine with ''Nickel'' plated cylinder sleeves and bearings that only last 13 flights. The only good parts about OS is their carburetors, you cant beat an OS carburetor with a stick..About glow plugs, there are some after run oils that play literal Havoc with glow plugs, normaly petroleum based oils, the best one is Air tool oil that is parafin based and the glow plugs that tolerate this oil is the one and only Fox brand standard long gold series or idle bar depending on how cotrary your engine is and always avoid cruel power fuel, now that mean green stuff has no mercy on engines, you may be able to clean your airplane alot easier(from a lack of lubricant) but the inside of your engine will look like Freddie Crougar had Just visited. Remember Fox glow plugs, I have used them since Moby Dick was a minnow mid 80s and they have not ever changed....
I thought I'd capture this in a Quote for fear that the original post will get deleted to protect OS from this kind of discussion. OS does not walk on water! The god like reverence for OS is misplaced. OS is an engine god with clay feet. She makes as many errors as most engine OEMs. Some can show that she actually has more than her fair share through out her product line. Yes, the OS engine can make bad air (run). The above is not a bash of OS so much as a criticism of those that think paying too much means that one gets quality.
All the best,
Konrad
11-01-2010, 10:01 AM
#79
RE: About O.S #8 plugs!
The sport flier, whatever that is supposed to be, gets all he wants and has fun while doing it. In most cases, the sport flier is a better person to fly around than the club know-it-all. The last person I want to be around is someone who claims to be an expert at anything. The moment someone claims to be an expert is when I stop listening to the blowhard.
Also, keep in mind that most 'experts' keep a low profile and rarely, if ever, brag on themselves. You will never hear them going on and on about what they know, and their special knowledge.
11-01-2010, 10:22 AM
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RE: About O.S #8 plugs!
ORIGINAL: blw
The sport flier, whatever that is supposed to be, gets all he wants and has fun while doing it. In most cases, the sport flier is a better person to fly around than the club know-it-all. The last person I want to be around is someone who claims to be an expert at anything. The moment someone claims to be an expert is when I stop listening to the blowhard.
Also, keep in mind that most 'experts' keep a low profile and rarely, if ever, brag on themselves. You will never hear them going on and on about what they know, and their special knowledge.
ORIGINAL: Konrad
Isn't the internet great? Now there are a lot of folks that have gained some new knowledge. It is these nuances that often account for the ''Engine Guy'' getting more power and reliability than the average Sport flier.
To answer your question all the member of my club know this about the OS glow plug. And when they see my engines run they are true believers!
Is this revelation earth shattering? No, but it can add to the enjoyment of the hobby.
Isn't the internet great? Now there are a lot of folks that have gained some new knowledge. It is these nuances that often account for the ''Engine Guy'' getting more power and reliability than the average Sport flier.
To answer your question all the member of my club know this about the OS glow plug. And when they see my engines run they are true believers!
Is this revelation earth shattering? No, but it can add to the enjoyment of the hobby.
The sport flier, whatever that is supposed to be, gets all he wants and has fun while doing it. In most cases, the sport flier is a better person to fly around than the club know-it-all. The last person I want to be around is someone who claims to be an expert at anything. The moment someone claims to be an expert is when I stop listening to the blowhard.
Also, keep in mind that most 'experts' keep a low profile and rarely, if ever, brag on themselves. You will never hear them going on and on about what they know, and their special knowledge.
No special knowledge here, the OS glow plug just doesn't fit.
I'm here on this site to help anybody, be him a sport flier or one trying to extract the most from their engines. This often means destroying many of the misconception some hold so dear. This is often a painful process and appreciate that. I point to the fact that most of my engine do in fact perform better than most. I'm here trying to share how this is done.
If one is getting all the fun one wants that is great. But please don't belittle those that want more than what is available in or from the mass market.
Now in the interest of full discloser, I often improve an engine to the point that it doesn't run. This is my game and I don't expect anybody to follow or understand this desire to strive for the most from our toys.
All the best,
Konrad
11-01-2010, 10:31 AM
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RE: About O.S #8 plugs!
ORIGINAL: blw
Also, keep in mind that most 'experts' keep a low profile and rarely, if ever, brag on themselves. You will never hear them going on and on about what they know, and their special knowledge.
Also, keep in mind that most 'experts' keep a low profile and rarely, if ever, brag on themselves. You will never hear them going on and on about what they know, and their special knowledge.
All the best,
Konrad
11-01-2010, 11:17 AM
#82
RE: About O.S #8 plugs!
This is getting a bit ridiculous...
OS#8 is not universally the best glow plug because there can never be just one plug for all engines, but OS can certainly make heads and glow plugs that are matching. Below is OS#8 in a OS.10 FSR engine, now Konrad please tell me what other brand, long reach, glow plug would fit better here?
OS#8 is not universally the best glow plug because there can never be just one plug for all engines, but OS can certainly make heads and glow plugs that are matching. Below is OS#8 in a OS.10 FSR engine, now Konrad please tell me what other brand, long reach, glow plug would fit better here?
11-01-2010, 11:30 AM
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RE: About O.S #8 plugs!
ORIGINAL: Mr Cox
This is getting a bit ridiculous...
OS#8 is not universally the best glow plug because there can never be just one plug for all engines, but OS can certainly make heads and glow plugs that are matching. Below is OS#8 in a OS.10 FSR engine, now Konrad please tell me what other brand, long reach, glow plug would fit better here?
This is getting a bit ridiculous...
OS#8 is not universally the best glow plug because there can never be just one plug for all engines, but OS can certainly make heads and glow plugs that are matching. Below is OS#8 in a OS.10 FSR engine, now Konrad please tell me what other brand, long reach, glow plug would fit better here?
Looking at your photo a head button might be a better solution as the glow plug and its cavity take up a large portion on the chamber. But then again the OS never was meant to he a high performance engine. It looks like what you have is a good sport fitting plug for the application. How does the OS#8 look in an OS FSR 60 of FX 61 combustion chamber?
Please the issue isn't about what I know but rather how things fit and work. Please address your questions to the group as a whole.
All the best,
Konrad
11-01-2010, 11:31 AM
#84
Senior Member
RE: About O.S #8 plugs!
Platinum is required in glow-plugs, to achieve the exothermic catalytic reaction on methanol, which is (not plainly the heat of combustion) what makes the coil glow.
No other material can turn that trick... Or we would all be running Ni-Chrome coil glow-plugs that last for the life of the engine and cost $0.25 a piece.
Rhodium and Iridium alone, both of which are alloyed with platinum in the coil, for durability; will not work on their own.
Methanol does not react with them in the desired way, so the glow will not endure when the power is removed from the plug.
Even though platinum is rather expensive (and rare), it is the only thing that works.
No other material can turn that trick... Or we would all be running Ni-Chrome coil glow-plugs that last for the life of the engine and cost $0.25 a piece.
Rhodium and Iridium alone, both of which are alloyed with platinum in the coil, for durability; will not work on their own.
Methanol does not react with them in the desired way, so the glow will not endure when the power is removed from the plug.
Even though platinum is rather expensive (and rare), it is the only thing that works.
11-01-2010, 11:41 AM
#85
RE: About O.S #8 plugs!
ORIGINAL: Konrad
The OS plugs are too short! OS did not respect the industry standards for long and short reach glow plugs.
The OS plugs are too short! OS did not respect the industry standards for long and short reach glow plugs.
11-01-2010, 11:42 AM
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RE: About O.S #8 plugs!
Was that response to my statement? Or just an artifact of this site?
I knew and think I stated that pure platinum is not desired.
All the best,
Konrad
I knew and think I stated that pure platinum is not desired.
All the best,
Konrad
11-01-2010, 11:45 AM
#87
RE: About O.S #8 plugs!
I'm no expert on glow plugs, but I do try to match up the engine rpm's with what the manufacturer's rpm claim is by prop size. Living in Florida, I'm at sea level. So, no worries about altitude differences. I don't have problems with OS # 8 plugs, nor McCoy, Fox or Enya. But I do believe OS has gone mad by asking for $8.00 for their #8 plug. Not worth it to me. So, I replace them with Fox or McCoy plugs when they burn out. So far, never a problem. Then again, I don't look to get max rpm's or anything over 14,000 rpm's.
My 46~61's get about 13,500 rpm, my 91's get about 11,000 rpm and I'm happy with that. I'm also happy with paying just $3~$4 for a plug.
My 46~61's get about 13,500 rpm, my 91's get about 11,000 rpm and I'm happy with that. I'm also happy with paying just $3~$4 for a plug.
11-01-2010, 11:47 AM
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RE: About O.S #8 plugs!
ORIGINAL: Mr Cox
Is is blunt OS bashing statements like that which made me direct the question directly at Konrad. Enya plugs for instance are the same length. So what is the industry standard length for a short reach glow plug then?
ORIGINAL: Konrad
The OS plugs are too short! OS did not respect the industry standards for long and short reach glow plugs.
The OS plugs are too short! OS did not respect the industry standards for long and short reach glow plugs.
For the record the OS plug is too long for heads fitted for the short reach glow plug. These facts are indisputable.
11-01-2010, 12:09 PM
#90
RE: About O.S #8 plugs!
HI
AM I the only one who has used the -K&B 1L- glo plug for 50 years ( non stop for the last 20 years in RC ) ?? the best all around trouble free medium heat range plug i have ever used -if so i would be very surprisedas they were always at the hobby shops i used until a few years ago
HOW ABOUT A LIST OF THE BEST LONG GLO PLUGS YOU HAVE EVER USED in RC that would be more productive than going on and on about the chemistry of what makes up the properties of a great glo plug
do correct me if i am wrongbut short plugs should only be used on glo engines the are 15 size or smaller the length will change the timing mostly and compression very slightly if the tip does not reach into the head as it should
i have only used MORGAN OMEGA 15 % glo fuel for the past 18 years with no engine wear to speak of- that combination of plug and fuel has my glo engines running trouble free and very notiable well ENJOY BEST REGARDS TONY" THE OMEGA MAN " think pink !!
AM I the only one who has used the -K&B 1L- glo plug for 50 years ( non stop for the last 20 years in RC ) ?? the best all around trouble free medium heat range plug i have ever used -if so i would be very surprisedas they were always at the hobby shops i used until a few years ago
HOW ABOUT A LIST OF THE BEST LONG GLO PLUGS YOU HAVE EVER USED in RC that would be more productive than going on and on about the chemistry of what makes up the properties of a great glo plug
do correct me if i am wrongbut short plugs should only be used on glo engines the are 15 size or smaller the length will change the timing mostly and compression very slightly if the tip does not reach into the head as it should
i have only used MORGAN OMEGA 15 % glo fuel for the past 18 years with no engine wear to speak of- that combination of plug and fuel has my glo engines running trouble free and very notiable well ENJOY BEST REGARDS TONY" THE OMEGA MAN " think pink !!
11-01-2010, 12:10 PM
#91
RE: About O.S #8 plugs!
ORIGINAL: Konrad
That was not a bash but rather a true statement OS does not respect the industry standard for the long and short reach glow plug in the 1/4 x 32 format. You have quoted me out of context. You still haven't given an argument to counter this claim. You can see some of this in the other photos posted in this thread. I'm glad OS has at least one engine that fits their odd ball length glow plug.
For the record the OS plug is too long for heads fitted for the short reach glow plug. These facts are indisputable.
That was not a bash but rather a true statement OS does not respect the industry standard for the long and short reach glow plug in the 1/4 x 32 format. You have quoted me out of context. You still haven't given an argument to counter this claim. You can see some of this in the other photos posted in this thread. I'm glad OS has at least one engine that fits their odd ball length glow plug.
For the record the OS plug is too long for heads fitted for the short reach glow plug. These facts are indisputable.
11-01-2010, 12:25 PM
#92
RE: About O.S #8 plugs!
ORIGINAL: DarZeelon
Platinum is required in glow-plugs, to achieve the exothermic catalytic reaction on methanol, which is (not plainly the heat of combustion) what makes the coil glow.
No other material can turn that trick... Or we would all be running Ni-Chrome coil glow-plugs that last for the life of the engine and cost $0.25 a piece.
Rhodium and Iridium alone, both of which are alloyed with platinum in the coil, for durability; will not work on their own.
Methanol does not react with them in the desired way, so the glow will not endure when the power is removed from the plug.
Even though platinum is rather expensive (and rare), it is the only thing that works.
Platinum is required in glow-plugs, to achieve the exothermic catalytic reaction on methanol, which is (not plainly the heat of combustion) what makes the coil glow.
No other material can turn that trick... Or we would all be running Ni-Chrome coil glow-plugs that last for the life of the engine and cost $0.25 a piece.
Rhodium and Iridium alone, both of which are alloyed with platinum in the coil, for durability; will not work on their own.
Methanol does not react with them in the desired way, so the glow will not endure when the power is removed from the plug.
Even though platinum is rather expensive (and rare), it is the only thing that works.
Platinum, rhodium, iridium, palladium, and even Raney nickle will act as catalyists to promote ignition. The last would be unsuitable for a glow plug because it is an alloy of aluminum and nickle in a powder form. I suspect palladium is too soft and probably would make a fairly cold plug. The first three work great but an alloy of platinum and rhodium or iridium is better. The first glow plug that actually worked without using an outside power source was an old spark plug. The first one Ray Arden tried that worked was ni chrome.
11-01-2010, 12:30 PM
#93
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RE: About O.S #8 plugs!
ORIGINAL: tony0707
HI
AM I the only one who has used the -K&B 1L- glo plug for 50 years ( non stop for the last 20 years in RC ) ?? the best all around trouble free medium heat range plug i have ever used -if so i would be very surprisedas they were always at the hobby shops i used until a few years ago
HOW ABOUT A LIST OF THE BEST LONG GLO PLUGS YOU HAVE EVER USED in RC that would be more productive than going on and on about the chemistry of what makes up the properties of a great glo plug
do correct me if i am wrongbut short plugs should only be used on glo engines the are 15 size or smaller the length will change the timing mostly and compression very slightly if the tip does not reach into the head as it should
i have only used MORGAN OMEGA 15 % glo fuel for the past 18 years with no engine wear to speak of- that combination of plug and fuel has my glo engines running trouble free and very notiable well ENJOY BEST REGARDS TONY'' THE OMEGA MAN '' think pink !!
HI
AM I the only one who has used the -K&B 1L- glo plug for 50 years ( non stop for the last 20 years in RC ) ?? the best all around trouble free medium heat range plug i have ever used -if so i would be very surprisedas they were always at the hobby shops i used until a few years ago
HOW ABOUT A LIST OF THE BEST LONG GLO PLUGS YOU HAVE EVER USED in RC that would be more productive than going on and on about the chemistry of what makes up the properties of a great glo plug
do correct me if i am wrongbut short plugs should only be used on glo engines the are 15 size or smaller the length will change the timing mostly and compression very slightly if the tip does not reach into the head as it should
i have only used MORGAN OMEGA 15 % glo fuel for the past 18 years with no engine wear to speak of- that combination of plug and fuel has my glo engines running trouble free and very notiable well ENJOY BEST REGARDS TONY'' THE OMEGA MAN '' think pink !!
11-01-2010, 12:34 PM
#94
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RE: About O.S #8 plugs!
ORIGINAL: Mr Cox
To me it is a well known fact that OS#8 and Enya 3 are very similar in terms of their thread length, see picture below. What is the industrial standard that these two companies do not respect?
ORIGINAL: Konrad
That was not a bash but rather a true statement OS does not respect the industry standard for the long and short reach glow plug in the 1/4 x 32 format. You have quoted me out of context. You still haven't given an argument to counter this claim. You can see some of this in the other photos posted in this thread. I'm glad OS has at least one engine that fits their odd ball length glow plug.
For the record the OS plug is too long for heads fitted for the short reach glow plug. These facts are indisputable.
That was not a bash but rather a true statement OS does not respect the industry standard for the long and short reach glow plug in the 1/4 x 32 format. You have quoted me out of context. You still haven't given an argument to counter this claim. You can see some of this in the other photos posted in this thread. I'm glad OS has at least one engine that fits their odd ball length glow plug.
For the record the OS plug is too long for heads fitted for the short reach glow plug. These facts are indisputable.
11-01-2010, 12:35 PM
#95
RE: About O.S #8 plugs!
After posting I wondered if I had it right about Ray Arden. Found this interesting article about him. He did a lot more than invent the glow plug!
http://www.craftsmanshipmuseum.com/arden.htm
http://www.craftsmanshipmuseum.com/arden.htm
11-01-2010, 12:55 PM
#96
Senior Member
RE: About O.S #8 plugs!
Mr. Cox
Enya and OS glow plugs are meant to be 'one size fits all'.
But in fact, they fit neither perfectly.
They are both defined as 'medium reach'.
Engines, however; even those made by OS and Enya, require either a long-reach (larger engines), or a short-reach (smaller ones) glow-plug...
Could the glow-plug divisions of both these companies, have become 'renegade'; working contrary to company policy?
Hugh,
Many materials have catalyst properties. Iridium and rhodium do too.
However, neither have the catalytic effect that platinum has on methanol.
A coil made from either of them, will not glow nearly as hot.
Enya and OS glow plugs are meant to be 'one size fits all'.
But in fact, they fit neither perfectly.
They are both defined as 'medium reach'.
Engines, however; even those made by OS and Enya, require either a long-reach (larger engines), or a short-reach (smaller ones) glow-plug...
Could the glow-plug divisions of both these companies, have become 'renegade'; working contrary to company policy?
Hugh,
Many materials have catalyst properties. Iridium and rhodium do too.
However, neither have the catalytic effect that platinum has on methanol.
A coil made from either of them, will not glow nearly as hot.
11-01-2010, 12:58 PM
#97
RE: About O.S #8 plugs!
A coil made from either of them, will not glow nearly as hot.
11-01-2010, 12:58 PM
#98
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RE: About O.S #8 plugs!
ORIGINAL: Mr Cox
To me it is a well known fact that OS#8 and Enya 3 are very similar in terms of their thread length, see picture below. What is the industrial standard that these two companies do not respect?
ORIGINAL: Konrad
That was not a bash but rather a true statement OS does not respect the industry standard for the long and short reach glow plug in the 1/4 x 32 format. You have quoted me out of context. You still haven't given an argument to counter this claim. You can see some of this in the other photos posted in this thread. I'm glad OS has at least one engine that fits their odd ball length glow plug.
For the record the OS plug is too long for heads fitted for the short reach glow plug. These facts are indisputable.
That was not a bash but rather a true statement OS does not respect the industry standard for the long and short reach glow plug in the 1/4 x 32 format. You have quoted me out of context. You still haven't given an argument to counter this claim. You can see some of this in the other photos posted in this thread. I'm glad OS has at least one engine that fits their odd ball length glow plug.
For the record the OS plug is too long for heads fitted for the short reach glow plug. These facts are indisputable.
All the best,
Konrad
11-01-2010, 01:07 PM
#100
Senior Member
RE: About O.S #8 plugs!
ORIGINAL: Sport_Pilot
Fox has advertised that plugs with rhodium will idle better than with iridium. Are you saying this is because it does not glow as hot?
A coil made from either of them, will not glow nearly as hot.
As noted earlier, the glow-coil is not pure platinum, but an alloy; with iridium and/or rhodium added at varying percentages.
Fox advertised that their glow-coils are alloyed with more rhodium.
I suppose rhodium may have a stronger catalytic property, with methanol, than iridium.
That does not imply that a coil made from rhodium alone, will glow worth a snuff...
Mr. Cox,
I guess any short-reach glow-plug will work.
They are still available, but a medium reach plug will not protrude much; so I guess the OS #6 (formerly the A3) would be good.
EDIT: Reply to Mr. Cox.