bigbri

My Feedback: (287)

Been flying my 160 and was ready to toss it out due to to the fact it kept acting like it was overheating....I had large size tubing.....large size klunk...tank in perfect position...Full cowl ducting....flew it without the cowl ect. ect. ect. Still "overheating" . Couple if deadsticks (and broken 10 dollar props) later I Finally broke down and put a perry pump on it. YAHOO !!!! Now it runs perfectly !!!! The only problem was the tubing supplied with the pump...THROW IT OUT !!!! It is junk. First flight resulted in a dead stick due to the tubing splitting on BOTH ends !!! Anybody having problems with their 160 the perry pump is the wat to go. great idle. Consistant runs.
I flew it today in a fully cowled airplane. 24 oz tank a little to low, with med size fuel tubing. Factory muffler with baffle removed. Tank vented........no muffler pressure. Humidity nearly 100 % temp 96 degrees... No sign of overheating in (3) 14 minute flights (plane flown HARD)
My 2 cents to anyone who cares
B-

majortom-RCU

My Feedback: (40)

Let me be sure I got this straight. You are running an OS 1.60, 24 oz tank, 14 minute flights, so the engine is guzzling well over one ounce per minute, maybe close to two ounces per minute, which sounds like a high fuel consumption rate to me, and it's drawing from medium size 3/32" id standard silicone fuel tube in the tank, same tubing from tank to pump, same tubing from pump to carb?

The tubing supplied with the Perry Pump is I'm not sure what material, but a stiff plastic, which I always assumed was for the purpose of keeping the line open with small radius bends, and the little paper that comes with the pump emphasizes the use of this tubing.

When you say "tank vented, no muffler pressure," I presume the vent line runs to the top of the tank and extends out the bottom of the cowl, so when inverted there is no fuel draining out the vent line which is now on top of the inverted cowl.

bigbri

My Feedback: (287)

you got it exactly........vent tubing from top of tank to bottom of cowl....med size tubing throught.......Replaced the junk "red" tubing they supplied after it split on BOTH ends first flight. They use (i believe) the hard walled tubing from pressure fitting to pump in order to regulate the pressure from the engine that drives the pump more closely. I think soft walled fuel line would expand and not provide the pressure at a constant rate needed. (my opinion only here)
The fuel consumption is about 1.5 oz a minute...Seems about right to me...my 61 Fx burns nearly one oz a minute at full power (the way I like....full power that is) running a tad on the rich size with a slight visable smoke trail agianst a blue sky Gives me 14 minute flights at full power with some reserve left in order to land safely with a couple of oz left in the tank for "go around" purposes...
B-

majortom-RCU

My Feedback: (40)

So do you have a theory as to why a "normal" 1.20 sized two-stroke is starved at full throttle on medium fuel line on venturi suction draw, but a 1.60 pumped engine consuming fuel at a higher rate gets all the fuel it needs? You would think that the fuel flow rate would be limited by fuel line i.d., but I guess the pressure driving the fuel flow also makes a considerable difference. Which leads us to think that the pump is applying more pressure to the carb line and more suction on the clunk line than a standard non-pumped venturi powered fuel delivery system. Which makes sense to my simple understanding. Is that how you see it?

h82crash

Well, the 160 is highly efficient, and the pump pressurizes the fuel flow to the engine. On a 24 oz tank I could fly at least 25 minutes aerobatically. I run a 16 oz tank in mine and have about 1/3 left after a 10 minute fight. My needle valve is open about 1-1/3. Yes, the hard line on the pump is suppose to optimize the pressure pulses to the pump but I run standard fuel line and it works fine. My 160 powers a Lanier Cap and it will pull out slowly from a hover. Turning a Mejzlik 18x8 @ 8700 400' elv. Did we mention first flip starts every time? If you can't tell, it's the best running engine I've ever owned.

LUDS96

My Feedback: (23)

I bought the 160 looking for this kind of reliability. I'm not having Great luck. It started out as a good experience but it goes through glow plugs. I've got the perry regulated pump on it with the ridged tube from the engine crankcase to the pump. Good size fuel line. But it runs about 5-7 minutes in the air then starts going flat and dies. Is it overheating or is it leaning out! I have to check the bad plugs to see if the coils are distorted or black wet. I have not looked at them close yet, as I just learned to look at them this way I'm going to take the cowl off and run a few tanks on the ground and see if I can pick up whats happening! Sugestions Please

SMALLFLY-

My Feedback: (19)

For what it's worth I run the perry oscillating pump on mine and it works great
No drilling or tapping crankcases. Very hard to tune properly and get good transition without the pump.
Put it on a bam, everything gets good
I have a 16 oz tank on mine and have no problem getting 10-12 min flights

tak

Do any of you have experience or second information on the 160FX FI? I'm building an H9 Edge and got the non-FI 160 and was thinking about the FI. Here are my assumed advantages (for $400 more):

1) None of the fuel delivery issues (such as you all have seen)
2) No adjustments needed for different weather (temp, pressure)
3) automatic inflight adjustment of mixture for constant optimal power regardless of attitude or altitude

Sounds like the Perry Pump takes care of 1. I find it hard to believe that altitude makes much of a difference considering the range we fly model aircraft in. I've never had problems with attitude on the 90FX, 50SX, and 46FX as long as the engine is well broken in, warmed up, and has the needle and idle screw set for the right mixture for the day's conditions.

What do you guys think? Maybe it would be lost on me - I'm not into competition, fly maybe a couple of days a month.

Boss248

Tak...that seems like a lot of money for a few times a month butwe have a club member that is running FI 160 and it is really nice. there is a small amount of first time parameters that need to be set but from what he said it took all of 30 minutes and he learned you MUST do it as per the destructions but the motor is always set properthru the entire flight. It seems a little stronger that a normal 160 like is on my GP Giles but I must have done something right when I set it up because it never misses a beat and runs coolas can be...damn good power and starts first flip every time and it sounds good as you taxi out.

DLT

My Feedback: (48)

I also run the Perry oscillating pump with great results on my 160.

tak

Boss248,

Thanks for the info. Does your friend use a pump with the FI 160?

Boss248

He is not using a pump of any kind and it did not seem to need one because of the injection system being able to keep up with demand. With a fuel injected system of this type the software is only going to alow a specific amount of fuel into the engine based on exhaust temp, rpm, and demand. This is the attractive aspect of the FI system, it takes care of the metering. His 160 sounds the same as mine except when he pulls vertical and then you can hear less sag in rpm's...it is just very efficient.

Bax

My Feedback: (11)

One thing about many of the larger two-stroke engines that doesn't always get considered. Many of the after-market exhaust systems just don't supply enough pressure to the fuel tank, so the engine trends lean, especially in verticals or high-G maneuvers.

The demand by modelers for more and more power has caused many engine manufacturers to open up the carburetors as much as possible. This means that fuel draw is somwhat compromised. A smaller venturi would cure the fuel draw problems, but then power would be down, and we'd be seeing a raft of posts about how to get more power.

Boomstriker

Bax is exactly right.

The other problem with decreased muffler pressure is a bigger change in the mix going from rich to lean from full to empty.
Plugging one of the outlets to get the pressure up is an easy fix.

Matt Kirsch

My Feedback: (21)

You still get variation from a full tank to empty, though. On top of that, plugging an outlet often costs you a few hundred RPMs. The nice thing about a pump is that the fuel flow is consistent from the first drop to the last...

I put a Perry VP30 on my 1.60 and it cured the nasty rattles I was getting in midrange.

DLT

My Feedback: (48)

Even with my Perry oscillating pump it pulls my overweight 1/4 scale Giles (about 14 lbs) vertical out of sight and leaves a wonderful smoke stream from start to finish. I'm running 10% nitro Hobbytown (Wildcat) fuel 80/20 syn/castor blend with 3 oz added Klotz Super Techniplate (that's the one with 80% syn and 20% castor) to make the fuel 20% oil content.

I'm using OS # 8 plug with Bisson pitts muffler, Zinger 18x8 pro and I even tried a Topflite 18x6/10 that someone gave me and it does excellent as well. I also have a check valve on the muffler line.

I guess it's a combination of all these things because you couldn't ask for better running engine.

tak

Well, here's what I think.

While the FI meters flow into the carb, I don't think it has any way to increase the pressure in the fuel line coming from the tank to the injector. What's the difference in the vacuum (opposite of pressure) created by the engine using a venturi carb vs. an injector? I have no idea, but think there must be some. No question in my mind that larger engines need higher flow. No question that a pump increases that flow for a given plumbing set-up. No question that a properly set up electronically controlled injector will provide the best mixture under any condition of attituted, altitude, and metrology. Leads me to this:

1) FI will always provide the right mix leading to best performance under any condition. Even if you get the low and high end mixtures set correctly for the day, as Boss notes, you can still get variation depending on attitude.

2) Pump may also be needed. My assumption: FI needs a consistent fuel pressure to do it's job. Maybe the 160 draws enough (creates enough vacuum) to do the good thing if the tank and vents are set up and located optimally. Maybe not.

So, I'm gonna think about wheter I really want to dish out the money for an FI given the low flying time I have and the good results you all are getting with the non-FI 160 and a pump. If I decide to get the FI, I'll TRY to run it first without any pump and report results on this forum, then add a pump and note differences.

TRY is the key word. You may be hearing my update next summer...

This is my first set of posts to RC universe and it's been really helpful. Thanks.

--t

LUDS96

My Feedback: (23)

OS 1.60FX In Giles 202 Great Planes. I had to do some studying to get this one right!
I drilled the case using the 140 pressure tap as a drill guide. I mounted the V30 pump on the firewall about center line with the engine. I mounted the needle valve next to it. I ran the engine for a good half hour seemed ok! I flew it it kept burning glow plugs. Lean? I think so. I remove the cowl and screwed in the adjustment on the pump. Much better top end lousy idle! Now OS says the low end needle is pre set at the factory? I trusted them for awhile but to rich on the bottom end. I drilled a small hole in my cowl so I could adjust it with the engine running cowl on. I had to turn it in a full turn then it started to lean out on the bottom end! I keeped adjusting till the engine smothed out at low speed! Top end adjusted till it started to starve then I richened it up a little! Ran smooth top to bottom good throttle response. Took a flight ran good! that was my afternoon!
I think the pump was pushing to much fuel for the stock needle seting on the bottom end! New Years Day I'll get to enjoy this Plane for the first time!

rcglert

I had similar fuel draw problems with a Supertigre 2300 with a Bisson muffler. It just did not have enough muffler pressure to run well. I plugged one exhaust outlet and...............abracadabra, it ran awesome! No pump necessary in that case although I realize that bigger Supertigre are another animal compared to OS.

Tom

LUDS96

My Feedback: (23)

I've got the Tank mounted near the CG so it's about 4 to 5 inchs from the fire wall so I went with the Pump Flew it again to day Ran Great. Till I popped the landing gear OOPs.