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Saito 65 Break-in?

Old 07-30-2015, 07:27 PM
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James c harrell
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Default Saito 65 Break-in?

I put a Saito 65 in my Cessna 182. Brand new engine. I am running 15/18 fuel and a 12-8 prop. All my settings were at factory set and it would not run with out the glow lead hooked up unless you were at least half throttle. I went back to the manual and reset factory setting and they were right. I went to try and tune it a little but it just would not tune. I checked the valve gap and the valve timing, not a simple task there! Timing that is. Thing is that if I get it to idle any where near decent the low speed needle is way in, recessed into the throttle arm a long way. My manual says to set that at a 1mm gap but I have seen on line manuals that say flush with the outside of the throttle arm. I think they are one and the same. My question is if these engines run real rough at idle while breaking them in? My top end RPM is better than the idle but it is not real steady. I have been tuning engines for a long time but this is my first brand new Saito. All my new engines have been mostly O.S. and they ran great right from the get go. Nothing like this any way. Any ideas? Just an after thought. I am on the fourth tank of fuel. No change yet.
Old 07-31-2015, 06:48 AM
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cahusker
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Jim, the Saitos come from the factory with very rich needle settings. They recommend using the glow igniter hooked up and running the engine at no more that 4000 rpm for the first few minutes of break in time. If you have 4 tanks of fuel through the engine then you are ready to set the needles and start flying to finish the break in process. Go to full throttle setting and lean the high speed needle until the rpm peaks, it helps to have a tach for this. After the peak is reached then back the needle off 200-300 rpm and that is a good setting. Now go to the low speed needle and start leaning it out until you get a good transition from low throttle to high throttle. You want the low speed needle as lean as you can set it but still get a good transition, then go fly the thing and after a few flights you will likely be able to lean the high speed needle a bit more and maybe the low speed too if the transition gets a bit slow. Saitos are great engines!
Old 07-31-2015, 11:43 AM
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wcmorrison
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And it takes a least a gallon of fuel through the engine before it is anywhere near broken in. Takes a while before a Saito idles really slow. It is a tough engine and some of them run rough all the time. Its big brother, the 91S is a bored out .65. BTW I have a Golden Knight .65 new in the box waiting for my regular .65 to give up the ghost. And I figure that will be a long time yet.
Old 08-01-2015, 10:25 AM
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blw
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The one thing they should put in the manuals is to break in the engines on a test stand.
Old 08-01-2015, 10:54 AM
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James c harrell
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Should have never tried to break this one in on the plane. Impossible to idle it down at all. I was running it again outside on the the starting table (on the plane). It was running real rich and I was fine with that. Problem was all the smoke it was putting out really pissed off a bunch of ground bees. They started surrounding the motor and plane and I couldn't get at it to check RPM and temps. I gassed the motor up and it sucked a few of them in the prop and destroyed my windshield! More work! I have no idea where they came from but they are gone now. No sign of them any where. On the up side I am getting to where I can idle it a little without the glow hooked up. It is getting better but I have never seen a motor so touchy on the needles. Three clicks on the high goes from to lean to to rich. Maybe that to will change with a few more break in runs. I am going to wait to change the windshield till after the break-in. Think I will name this plane the "Bee-Keeper"
Old 08-05-2015, 06:27 PM
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Rv7garage
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That needle sounds overly sensitive to me! As for the bees, sorry- that's just hilarious...
Old 08-08-2015, 04:09 AM
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Hobbsy
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James, on the next run, try setting the LS needle with the HS needle at full peak. If not you'll end up chasing the needle settings all over the place. The HS needle seat is fixed, so setting it at peak eliminates one variable. Someone mentioned that one of the knocks on the .65 is it's weight, on the other side of that coin is it's smoothness due to it's weight and lower power.
Farmer Dave

Last edited by Hobbsy; 08-08-2015 at 04:12 AM.
Old 08-08-2015, 06:05 AM
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James c harrell
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I set the low at a 1mm gap as my instructions said. I have seen another manual on line that said to set that at flush with the throttle arm but I think the two settings are virtually the same. Any-way, I started it up and opened it up to set the peak at high and it ran good at high RPM. Lower the idle and it wouldn't idle (Below 3000) without the glow on. Turn the low side in and it will idle without the glow and it will run good at idle. But the low speed needle is well inside the tube in the carb that comes from the high side. When I try to open the throttle to high it will lean out and get hot fast . Open the high to try and compensate and it becomes bad on the idle again. It is however getting better as I run it more. I have switched plugs and tried different fuel (new that is) with no difference. But I will stay with the running on the bench at about 3000 at a real rich set with glow on till it gets better. A friend is going to let me try his carb just to see. Will let you know.
Old 08-08-2015, 06:34 AM
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Hobbsy
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Even on the steel throttle lever and 1/16" below on plastic arm are initial settings only. Pictured is typical final setting. When it hesitates on accel. 1/8th turn richer is usually just right on LS needle.
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