w8ye

My Feedback: (16)

I've experienced the "Dumb person" (elusive at best) over the internet and on the phone. I've let some engines go because of this. There was recently a Saito 90T (or was it a TS)? Couldn't get it out of the guy. I was trying to get him to tell me how many valve covers?

At the swap meets you can tell more about them. But some of the engines I've bought at swap meets or out of the trunk of someone's car have been problem engines that someone else gave up on. So far I have anticipated the problems and have been successful in getting the engine running well. I suppose If I fail someday, I'll have a good parts engine?

NM2K

My Feedback: (14)

Yeah, that black piston and exhaust port is a dead give-away. <G>

Out of fifty or more (many more) used engine transactions on eBay, only one or two have yielded total trash. Thankfully, they were not expensive to buy. I'll buy new if a particular engine is still in production, unless I get a guarantee that the engine is NIB and gain some assurances that we can settle the issue between us if our definitions turn out to be at odds. I really get a kick out of the auctioners that list an engine as LNIB. No, it is either unused, or it isn't. That's like being almost pregnant.

I bought my Saito 3-cylinder 1.70 used and my OS FT-300 used. I am well satisfied with both and I saved substantial money on the deal(s). Those were my two exceptions to buying used an engine that is still in production. I'm still looking for a Saito .90 3-cylinder radial and an OS Pegasus four cylinder 3.20. I've heard from a few folks on the latter two, but they think they are going to get within $100 of what I would pay for a new one. I know it hurts to lose money on something that hasn't been used, but that is how the used market works. NIB is still used. Unfortunately for me, there are folks who are willing to pay that much for those engines, so I'll probably do without for quite a while.


Ed Cregger

onewasp

I do not classify myself as an engine guru, yet I have a fairly long experience with full scale and model engines, normal and full race.
Frankly I've never purchased a used engine and probably never will. I am first and foremost a flier and I am interested in class 'A' performance from the first start to the last flight. (no, I choose the last flight)

It takes enough time to properly maintain an aerobatic/Pattern airframe with a new engine and Radio servo combos as perfect as they can be made.

I have in the last nearly 48 years had but one RC engine (and one CL engine) which were absolute dogs (Ed knows I've mentioned the RC nightmare brand before---it is irrelevant here).

I simply am not interested in less than on spec performance (virtually all have proven to Rapidly exceed the specs. and that is what I expect or is it demand. (if they don't they are gone quickly. Haven't had to do that in quite some time!)

The only thing that comes close to being as big a pain as a balky Radio is a balky engine. Fortunately I have encountered neither since the late seventies. (That one RC brand that I remember soooo well-------they are still around but will never be in one of my planes at any price, new or used.)

Simply another viewpoint on the hobby, what is important to me and the subject----Used Engines.

I certainly do not expect whole hearted support for my view.

buzzard bait

Your view makes complete sense for your criteria. I'm sure you break in your engines more carefully than most people, so you might be disappointed in a used engine. For me, I'm a confirmed sport/scale flier and I don't care if my engines aren't hitting top rpm.

I do care about good throttling and ease of starting, and there I've been very lucky with my used engines. I've had a couple that required a carb cleaning to work well, and one that was so far out of adjustment it made me wonder if it was why the guy sold it--but it ran beautifully once I figured it out. Two I gave away, but they were very cheap to begin with. Overall my used purchases have run fine right out of the box. I always ask questions of the seller first. If he sounds like he doesn't have a clue I don't buy. Jim

DarZeelon

Jim,


When buying a used engine, it should still be usable, for more than an instant...

'Usable' means it is still in its prime.
When an engine is down 10% (HP-wise) from its best; i.e. about 3% down from its best RPM, it is most likely on its last leg... Such an engine is just a few hours away from becoming hard to start and not holding a reasonably low idle.

And this is besides your undemanding standards of performance.

Such an engine is virtually a corpse, i.e. buzzard food and must sell (buy it now) for a residual 5-10% of its new 'street price', or even given away gratis, unless it can be overhauled for a reasonable cost.

And even then, its sale price + the cost of all the parts needed to overhaul it, must only come to 50-60% if its new 'street price'.

This precludes the sale of an engine in less than prime condition, at any auction (or auction web site), since there will always be some stupid bidder(s) that is (are) willing to pay more for it, for whatever illogical reason...
But this attribute make those auctions 'a seller's paradise'...

Only uncommon seller integrity (is there such a thing) will prevent those bozos from making boo-boos...


Editted to correct the name of poster this reply is written to.

buzzard bait

I'm not saying my engines ARE down in power--I don't know if they are 98%, 99% or 100% because there is no way to tell. I'm just saying that I'm willing to buy used and accept that what I get may not be quite equivalent to a new engine. The other guy isn't willing to do that, and for his needs, it makes sense. My engines are excellent--powerful, hold compression when turned to TDC, easy starting, great idle and transition. At around $30 - $40 an engine, sometimes less, I'm extremely pleased with my purchases, and I have never needed to buy parts for them. One of my favorites is an Irvine .36 I picked up in beautiful condition for $30 with shipping--what a sweetheart. I have no idea why no one else bid, but sometimes you get lucky. Jim

onewasp

[quote]ORIGINAL: buzzard bait

" I'm sure you break in your engines more carefully than most people, so you might be disappointed in a used engine. "

{Quote}


Yes, I'm going to intentionally "stir the pot" a bit.

With the aforementioned racing background in mind I run my engines in the airframe on the ground until I can get a reliable idle (doesn't have to be the desired slow idle but it does have to be steady in the 2300 2400 range with perfect transition. This generally takes me considerably less than one full tank.

At that point I set high speed to two clicks off peak and fly the sequence. After two flights it is peaked (perhaps I'll give it 100rpm head room) then it is treated exactly as if it were old reliable.
No quarter given.

With CNC and care in assembly we didn't treat our many thousand dollar race engines to any easy runs------spot on operating temps; oil pressure; and adherence to red line. That was it.

We then ran it at red line/race conditions. It was worthless to us if it wouldn't "take" race conditions right off the build table.
That is exactly how I treat my RC engines. Hard!
On most it is around 60 gallons before there is any noticeable loss of power. At that point they get one rebuild and more of the same------when they falter they are stripped of external parts and trashed.

I've only had one which didn't like this treatment!

I've long since lost count of the number of engines treated this way-----it has been over 47 years of experience so my 'engine count' is long forgotten.

BUT ---- I still remember that one rotten RC engine I had ;-)) ----- (Ed will remember the brand) STILL, only one!

Race engine failures----full scale----zero!

Edited for 'quote' clarity---thanks to DarZeelon.

added comment Two cycle RC engines run with Castor; all four cycle 100% synthetic at 18% actual. Nitro content; no less than 15%; no more than 30%.

tucker1865

My Feedback: (6)

I have bought many engines in the past, used, at very good prices and have never (knock on wood)mbeen butned. Recently the prices are getting too high to make it worth the risk. I have about 50 engines and don't think I need any more. (all two strokes) You need to look at the sellers feedback and you need to follow the auctions for some time to get an idea of the value/price. This comes with experience. I don't rebuild them, unless it is a ring or bearing. The best buys are for new engines that are no longer in production, like HB 40/60 PDP, OS 46/61 SF and the OS FSR engines. I will buy them if I can get them for a good price. I stay away from those that have spotty reputations, early Magnums, MDS, and I read all of the ratings here in the R/C Universe member coments. Many people buy engines and planes and decide for one reason or another that this hobby is not for them, as long as they have not run them lean or crashed, I will consider them, but it takes experience. Some people claim ignorance when they sell a bad engine. You will be able to weed these out after some experience. It is really kind of fun. I will, eventually buy 4 strokes in the future, so I am watching them now, to gain some experience. Hope this helps.

Julian537

My Feedback: (9)

Buying used engines can be a great bargain. I have yet to be burned on one. I have gotten some great deals by buying used. I bought a nice Rossi .53 for less than $100 because the guy could not get it to run well. He even gave me a full gallon of 10% fuel to go with it. Changed the motor over to 5% nitro and it ran like a top. I bought a moki 2.10 for $150 with a bisson pitts muffler. Post sais that the screw heads were stripped. After receiving the motor, they were not stripped at all. They were just hex head bolts and it looked like someone had been using a phillips or flat head on the bolts. The tops of the bolts were all shiney. bought a "used" MDS 18 at a swap meet for $15. The guy claimed that it ran great. I tried to run it and could not get it to tune. Come to find out from RCU that MDS carbs were famous for not sealing. Looked in the box and "low and behold" the o-ring was brand new in the MDS package with a letter that stated that it needed to be added to the base of the carb for the motor to run right.

One mans used/problem engine is a deal for the rest of us.

CrateCruncher

My Feedback: (1)

Well I finally got burned today. The engine I received was a hastily assembled assortment of damaged and worn out parts from several motors. The seller took all the parts with damaged threads, dented scratched etc parts and made up one "sucker engine". Virtually every piece is bent, cross-threaded, damaged or worn out. Considering I've bought a lot of used engines I'm not discouraged about the market in general, just pissed at this unscrupulous seller!

blw

My Feedback: (3)

Did you buy the engine from the RCU Marketplace?

asmund

[quote]ORIGINAL: DarZeelon

Jim,


, or even given away gratis,



Hi Dar, do you speak Norwegian?? The word "gratis" is the Norwegian word for for free or no charge.
I just couldn`t resist, he he

DarZeelon

Asmund,


I still don't speak any Norwegian... Now I know my first word!

Gratis is 'free', or 'at no charge' (when you buy something else for a payment), in several languages besides Norwegian.
It is also used to signify a 'tip', 'bakshish', like one would leave for the waiter/waitress in a restaurant.


Cheers.

rcdude7

My Feedback: (264)

Care to tell us where it came from?

I have bought alot of used engines from various places and never had one that wasn't at least good for a few parts at worst.

CrateCruncher

My Feedback: (1)

I bought the engine on fleabay. I didn't drill the seller about condition prior to bidding like I normally do because he is a model engine dealer with a good reputation. After I received and inspected the engine and described the condition he told me he didn't bother to inspect it because he got it in a package deal from a friend at his flying field. I later checked his feedback and low and behold found where he had bought it from someone else on fleabay only a few weeks prior. I know its my motor because the first seller mentioned the serial number on the block in his description!

Anyway, despite my seller's "memory loss" as to origin, I could see from the photo of his seller some of the same bad parts. My seller got it and just flipped it to me. It appears he is willing to work with me to resolve this and I expect I'll get a refund less the shipping.

CrateCruncher

My Feedback: (1)

I suspect the Franken-motor problem occurs in the more common older engines where the prices are low relative to new or NOS replacement parts. An unscrupulous collector buys 3 or 4 identical motors and cherry picks the best parts off them to make one nice one and resells the rest.

Just in case some bonehead is reading this thinking he might try this DON"T! The motor you reassemble won't run as well because the parts weren't broken in together and other collectors can spot this scam INSTANTLY because the patina and wear rates don't match. After angry emails, refunds and/or negative feedback ratings you'll wish you just bought the new parts.

DarZeelon

After having bought 3 used engines over the web, I can conclude the following:

1. Never buy a used engine on the web, or by proxy... unless it is your personal friend who is selling; and you know for certain that this person wants to remain your friend...

2. Only buy (on the web) engines in confirmed NIB, or new 'never run' condition; and since they can never come with a warranty, they are only worth up to 70% of their 'street price' new.

3. Engines that are said to only have been broken-in should be regarded as well-used. See No. 1.

4. A used engine should be bought, ONLY in a face-to-face transaction, that allows your to actually test how it runs. Trying to feel if it has good compression and its bearings don't rumble, is totally insufficient and cannot replace actual running tests. Having compression, fuel and a glow will have any engine firing and this is insufficient to determine this engine can actually run.

5. Never pay any more than you think an engine is worth to you. If someone is willing to pay more, don't try to outbid that offer and you can regard this bidder as the imbecile he/she is.

6. Winning a bid will never make you feel good, if you got a s#!t load engine for your hard-earned cash.

7. If you have a used engine to sell "in great condition", do us all a favor and give it to MECOA for the a $10 discount on a new engine. If you want to sell it, it is probably not worth even that... Or better yet, just give it away to a charitable cause...


The only GOOD used engine I obtained over the net was from a friend who wants to remain my friend, even though we have never actually met.
It was in a trade - not a buy.