Welcome to Club SAITO !
09-24-2018, 09:36 AM
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Saito 120 R-3 ready for break in using a 14x7 three blade, a 15x6 three blade and a 15x8 two blade will be run also. If you're curious about the fuel bulb, it is pulling a vacuum on the Roto Flo tank, it has not changed shape in over an hour now. For a discussion elsewhere.
Last edited by Hobbsy; 09-24-2018 at 09:39 AM. Reason: Add content
09-24-2018, 05:19 PM
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Dave, it looks too, that you will be needing to buy more fuel tubing soon LOL, your supply is spooling down.
the R-3 is super nice, it would be great in the Top Flight .60 size Corsair, too bad the 100iT is out of production, too bad it wasn't a 125iT, I would like one more than a flat twin of the same size, a 125iT would be nice for the Top Flight .60 size P-40 and Spitfire
BTW, I don't remember if you said, what is your plan for the R-3 ??
Jim
the R-3 is super nice, it would be great in the Top Flight .60 size Corsair, too bad the 100iT is out of production, too bad it wasn't a 125iT, I would like one more than a flat twin of the same size, a 125iT would be nice for the Top Flight .60 size P-40 and Spitfire
BTW, I don't remember if you said, what is your plan for the R-3 ??
Jim
09-25-2018, 03:13 AM
Ok since nobody asked here's an fa220 hanging out the front of a seagull kit,it's a 74"ws percival mew gull pre ww2 record holding speed and distance setter.
Saito 120 R-3 ready for break in using a 14x7 three blade, a 15x6 three blade and a 15x8 two blade will be run also. If you're curious about the fuel bulb, it is pulling a vacuum on the Roto Flo tank, it has not changed shape in over an hour now. For a discussion elsewhere.
ps jim has the saito fa115 arrived and scared the bejeezuz out of you yet?
09-25-2018, 04:01 AM
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1980's Joss Stick.
Spooling down huh, I like that, yeah, for every engine that comes out some wish it was a different size, like the 1.15 Pete likes to rag me about.
It's a jewel of an engine, I just wanted a 1.25, then the improved 1.25, so as Handsome Harry Clay says, "I gotter boy". I am going to spool up the 1.20 triple in a while, I think, it's been raining for more than a month here. I am tired of watching movies and reading books.Pete, I see you use the self threading screws as I do, never had any loosen or pull out. That works with machine screws also, just tap the mount, the material stretches while tapping so the screw goes in with some effort but will never back out on it's own. Lottsa tricks work much better than people think. I think my old fat wing Joss Stock will make a good first home for the 1.20 triple.
09-25-2018, 04:37 AM
Ok since nobody asked here's an fa220 hanging out the front of a seagull kit,it's a 74"ws percival mew gull pre ww2 record holding speed and distance setter.
I'd be tempted to paint some white on one tip of the blade just because they look nicer when running.Be interesting to see how the 15x8 two blade goes on the saito 120r3 my saito fa115 pulls about 8500 with a mas 15x8 on the ground,mounted in the midget mustang.That flex exhaust tubing sure makes things easy i like the stubby pipes tho,they sound better.I have a 12oz roto flow to fit in the deccy for the fa82 when the sullivan tank gives up the ghost,not likely to happen soon it's been there for six years and still looks new.The roto flow tank looks really well engineered.
ps jim has the saito fa115 arrived and scared the bejeezuz out of you yet?
I have also used the sheet metal type screws in plastic mounts but have had them fail, in of all things, the glass reinforced mounts. Bridi mounts in particular.
Those later , nylon type mounts are a lot less brittle and probably hold up well. On the Saito .82 with plastic backplates, I all too often found something interesting when I went to put a metal backplate in place. (And I have done a lot of them!)
The area near the mounting beam would often distort to the point where the aluminum back plate would not easily slip in. The exceptions were the engines where I had used an under mount saddle as I had originally done with brass to gain nose ballast.
Those individual mounts on ply firewalls are seldom if ever true and parallel. Over time, with vibration forces and heat cycling, those untrue plastic mounts were distorting the very thin case in the area of the lugs. I now frequently use the saddles to support that area well. They also help prevent lug damage in the event of a hard crash. The added case support releives a lot of stress and strain in that area and aside from weight, there is zero downside.
Jim,
Be very alert on Thursday!
Last edited by Jesse Open; 09-25-2018 at 09:18 AM. Reason: Add pics
09-25-2018, 09:23 AM
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Saito 120 R-3 break in, 2 hours total run time, 28 oz of fuel.
Saito 120 r-3 New and un-run.
Plugs===stock Saito
Prop===Graupner G-Sonic 14x7, I changed my mind about the 15x8 but will still do it.
10 minutes @ 4,000 rich and throttle barely open
10 minutes @ 5,000 engine running 5,250 after this 10 minutes, with HS needle at 3.5 turn out.
10 minutes @ 6,000 6,150 after this period
20 minutes @ 7,000 to finish first 14 oz'
Refill tank, restart and warm up
Peak high speed needle, set low speed needle, it only needed one half turn
Go back to 7,000 peak again to 7,320
After 15 minutes at full throttle it slowly crept up to 7,760, that is the current peak.
Idle now at 1,830 doable for three minutes without dropping a plug, it sounds as if it will quit at any moment but it doesn't
Increased to 2,000 it has a beautiful smooth idle with a curious deep rumble to the exhaust, I didn't hear that with my 90 triple.
That 15 minute run at full throttle did some good.
I like it.
PS, Dan mentioned that Saitos gain about .002" in valve lash when fully warmed, the little short .40 sized cylinders on the 120 gained .001"
Saito 120 r-3 New and un-run.
Plugs===stock Saito
Prop===Graupner G-Sonic 14x7, I changed my mind about the 15x8 but will still do it.
10 minutes @ 4,000 rich and throttle barely open
10 minutes @ 5,000 engine running 5,250 after this 10 minutes, with HS needle at 3.5 turn out.
10 minutes @ 6,000 6,150 after this period
20 minutes @ 7,000 to finish first 14 oz'
Refill tank, restart and warm up
Peak high speed needle, set low speed needle, it only needed one half turn
Go back to 7,000 peak again to 7,320
After 15 minutes at full throttle it slowly crept up to 7,760, that is the current peak.
Idle now at 1,830 doable for three minutes without dropping a plug, it sounds as if it will quit at any moment but it doesn't
Increased to 2,000 it has a beautiful smooth idle with a curious deep rumble to the exhaust, I didn't hear that with my 90 triple.
That 15 minute run at full throttle did some good.
I like it.
PS, Dan mentioned that Saitos gain about .002" in valve lash when fully warmed, the little short .40 sized cylinders on the 120 gained .001"
Last edited by Hobbsy; 09-25-2018 at 09:26 AM. Reason: Add content
09-25-2018, 10:24 PM
Agreed dave the joss stick would look nice with the fa120 r3.You could run the short stubby pipes they come with then but,it would mean a bit more fuse cleaning after the days flying.Dave i may be misreading your post.Are you saying you ran the 120r3 slobbering rich for 50 minutes on a 14oz tank?.My 200r3 had a similar run in to yours but with only an hour on the bench it still drops the right lower cylinder if you let it idle at 1800 for more than 30 seconds,more time on the engine will fix that or i could cheat and add 5% petrol for now.I set my valve lash at between 2 and 3 thou cold.
Gary whats with the old man bit i think you got me beat.Both yours and dave's comments were spot on about engine mounts.The under bridge ally piece is nicely machined and made,almost a bridge mount in rifle scope terms.Bent carefully and well supported flexi pipe exhaust tube lasts ages.
ps jim i disagree with gary's warning to be very alert when the fa115 rolls up to your place.Sure,grab the box and set it down somewhere safe,then grab a glass or three of your favourite ale and contemplate whats going to happen when you first fire it up in a few days time.For sure you are going to take a few steps backwards when it initially fires so make sure there's nothing you can trip over like the odd p40 model etc
Gary whats with the old man bit i think you got me beat.Both yours and dave's comments were spot on about engine mounts.The under bridge ally piece is nicely machined and made,almost a bridge mount in rifle scope terms.Bent carefully and well supported flexi pipe exhaust tube lasts ages.
ps jim i disagree with gary's warning to be very alert when the fa115 rolls up to your place.Sure,grab the box and set it down somewhere safe,then grab a glass or three of your favourite ale and contemplate whats going to happen when you first fire it up in a few days time.For sure you are going to take a few steps backwards when it initially fires so make sure there's nothing you can trip over like the odd p40 model etc
09-26-2018, 01:31 AM
Sorry about that ; "Old man" as derived from Rude Old Fart
You may have a point about the flex pipe. Most failures, and there are plenty, are likely from poor installation. I have only used 1 and that was a long time ago but it did split after about three seasons.
I do prefer the individual stacks on the radial however as better looking and far less bulky. Cleaning is cleaning, probably not a lot of difference in the long run .
The Keleo, of course looks good and they too are known to fail at times.
Yep, tomorrow should be a big day for Jim.
You may have a point about the flex pipe. Most failures, and there are plenty, are likely from poor installation. I have only used 1 and that was a long time ago but it did split after about three seasons.
I do prefer the individual stacks on the radial however as better looking and far less bulky. Cleaning is cleaning, probably not a lot of difference in the long run .
The Keleo, of course looks good and they too are known to fail at times.
Yep, tomorrow should be a big day for Jim.
Last edited by Jesse Open; 09-26-2018 at 01:49 AM.
09-26-2018, 03:24 AM
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No sir I only ran it about 4 turns rich for the first 10 minutes, then cut it down to 3.0 turns. It never needed the glow power to run once started. The manual says to consider it broken in after 40 minutes I set the lash using the OS gauge. .04 mm, I think. If I had run it five turns rich it would have hogged up a 14 oz tank in bout 15 minutes and would have killed all the soy beans out back. The manual say /14 to 1/3rd throttle at really rich for 10 minutes only, so that's all i do. During the first 10 minutes at 4,000 and four turns rich it really hosed down the test stand. I am going to run a couple of other props today.
The fuel as always was Wildcat 10% with 18% full synthetic.
The fuel as always was Wildcat 10% with 18% full synthetic.
09-26-2018, 05:48 AM
I was thinking (You know how dangerous that can be!) what would the affect be on the break-in process and the engine itself if when running on a test stand if I ran a hose from the muffler exhaust outlet and crankcase nipple to a can to catch all the unburned fuel?
09-26-2018, 06:12 AM
.BTW, I almost always do run the case vent into a collector tank when running on the test stand. Do it on planes sometimes as well..
Those short stacks sound great, even on the little 90R3! <iframe width="681" height="383" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/JXRHf7cFarg" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>
Last edited by Jesse Open; 09-26-2018 at 08:10 AM.
09-26-2018, 07:17 AM
One airplanes I run a line from the crankcase vent next to the exhaust outlet to blow the leakage out in the exhaust stream. I find if the exhaust is setup correctly it helps with clean up. I want to catch the exhaust when running on the test stand to keep from creating an oil slick and killing the grass. I'm usually have the test stand setup out front near the garage. The next door neighbor jams some evenings in the enclosed patio and since I don't complain about that they don't complain about engine noise. We both quite by 8:00 PM.
09-26-2018, 08:20 AM
One airplanes I run a line from the crankcase vent next to the exhaust outlet to blow the leakage out in the exhaust stream. I find if the exhaust is setup correctly it helps with clean up. I want to catch the exhaust when running on the test stand to keep from creating an oil slick and killing the grass. I'm usually have the test stand setup out front near the garage. The next door neighbor jams some evenings in the enclosed patio and since I don't complain about that they don't complain about engine noise. We both quite by 8:00 PM.
09-26-2018, 09:36 AM
Same idea I make a strap and attach a piece of brass tube to the muffler itself and run fuel tubing.
Same idea I make a strap and attach a piece of brass tube to the muffler itself and run fuel tubing.
Same idea I make a strap and attach a piece of brass tube to the muffler itself and run fuel tubing.
09-26-2018, 10:11 AM
09-26-2018, 10:24 AM
I learned the method I use from an old modeller in his 80s that switched to ARFs because he couldn't build anymore.He is gone now.
Last edited by FlyerInOKC; 09-26-2018 at 01:24 PM.
09-26-2018, 12:30 PM
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I received the 1.15 just minutes ago, what a beautiful engine ! thank you Gary ! I will be sending a PM later tonight..
Pete, I think she loves me, she came out of the box purring for me, she's really sweet,
I was working on the fuel tank earlier for the smelly 2 stroke, I had to throw away half the hardware that came with the tank, pure junk,, I don't know, maybe I'm jinxed because I didn't put a Saito in it,, I don't think I will ever fly it around my Saitos, it would be an insult to them to do so..
I guess I could consider that, that could be applied to my 100 and 1.15 also ??
thanks again Gary !!
Jim
Pete, I think she loves me, she came out of the box purring for me, she's really sweet,
I was working on the fuel tank earlier for the smelly 2 stroke, I had to throw away half the hardware that came with the tank, pure junk,, I don't know, maybe I'm jinxed because I didn't put a Saito in it,, I don't think I will ever fly it around my Saitos, it would be an insult to them to do so..
Dave:
1) The manual says to consider it broken in after 40 minutes.
2) The manual say /14 to 1/3rd throttle at really rich for 10 minutes only,
1) The manual says to consider it broken in after 40 minutes.
2) The manual say /14 to 1/3rd throttle at really rich for 10 minutes only,
thanks again Gary !!
Jim
09-26-2018, 04:59 PM
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Jim, I came with the program I use because the Saito manual goes completely vague after the first 10 minutes, so I rolled my own and it works well every time, 30 some times in fact.
09-26-2018, 06:25 PM
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Pete, what is that plane with the #5 on it that is setting to the left behind your Mew Gull, and what's that Saito twin mounted to it ??
sorry Pete I'm confused there, that plane may be to my right cause you are up side down, not sure tho, it's screwy to think about it
Jim
woo hoo, it's a Saito
09-27-2018, 02:01 AM
Jim this is an edge540v3 with an fg57 fitted.I posted a pic of it a while ago with genuine scale pidgeon poo all over the top cowl,accidently locked one of the next door neighbours pidgeons in the shed overnight.Behind that on the left is a h9 taylorcraft with a saito fa182td flat twin,in the last half of the flight it will go vertical and looks graceful doing aerobatics.
Jim what size prop are you going to run the fa115 on? and don't forget pard...having heli two strokes and accessories any where near saito's is bad juju