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Old 06-07-2019, 05:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Jesse Open
So how much is wildcat fuel nowadays ?
Our LHS will no longer order wildcat but they do handle Morgan's Cruel Power and all the VP fuels.

Gary, well WildCat 20-20 YS/Saito is $44 a gallon shipped to my door, $176 a case shipped to my door

Jim
Old 06-07-2019, 05:34 PM
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I used VP 10% Air for a few years until my club stopped buying it. Started buying whatever I could get from club members for a while until I got some 15% Wildcat #159. I liked the performance, the price not so much.

Now I run a 50/50 mix of 15% Morgans Omega and 15% Cruel Power. Seems to run my 4 strokes just as good as any other fuel I've run. The oil package comes out to be something lije 17.5% total oil and 2.75% of that castor.
Old 06-07-2019, 05:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Hobbsy
Jim, I fly 10% only all the time, you will never miss not having 20%, I have used a few gallons of 5% also, engines run really nice on it. Guys in other countries fly 0% and have as much fun as we do.
Dave, I am going to run the 20% in both 2 and 4 strokes..to add I learned on my Helis that the higher Nitro has a smaller tuning envelope that is much easier to notice. it makes for easier tuning

Jim
Old 06-07-2019, 05:44 PM
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I did some quick numbers for mixing my own, in the end for smaller batches like 5, 6 and 7 gallons I would only save about the price of 1 store bought gallon, not enough for all the BS in doing so,, to add that did not include shipping to me

to make 6 gallons
Nitro,,,,,,,,,,,$65 a gallon
Methanol,,, $35 a gallon
Klotz oil,,,, ,$54 a gallon
now add stabilizer and shipping

Jim
Old 06-07-2019, 05:46 PM
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Originally Posted by the Wasp
Dave, I am going to run the 20% in both 2 and 4 strokes..to add I learned on my Helis that the higher Nitro has a smaller tuning envelope that is much easier to notice. it makes for easier tuning

Jim
For me the point of diminishing return is at 15%. Now if I was a balls out pylon racer things would look quite differently.

Last edited by Glowgeek; 06-07-2019 at 05:50 PM.
Old 06-07-2019, 06:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Glowgeek
For me the point of diminishing return is at 15%. Now if I was a balls out pylon racer things would look quite differently.
for off the shelf S&W that is $4 more a gallon for 20% over the 15%,

S&W adds only 17% for most off the shelf stuff, S&W has good prices, $20 for 15% Nitro,, $24 for 20% Nitro

and fo me it said Shipping was only $16, I have to question that.

but my Saito manuals call for no less than 20% oil, I do not see any 20-20 4 Stroke oil, but as Geeker said before, it can be ordered

RC Airplane 4 Cycle - S-W Fuels

Jim
Old 06-07-2019, 06:39 PM
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I run all my Saitos inverted except the one in my Sbach which is mounted -45. The vents are all located in or near the cam boxes. For those configurations I see no excessive wear to the valve trane and the rocker arms are always wet using 17% oil. If I had an upright mounted saito, especially one with a rear vent, I would probably pull the rockers covers periodically and put in a drop or two of lube, even if using a 20% oil package. Even running them upright during extended breakin purposes indicates to me reduced valve trane oiling. The rockers don't seem to dry out per se, just less oil present than running inverted.

There are many testimonies where folks have run their saitos inverted on 14% total oil content for many years with no problems. I'm not ready to try that quite yet.

Last edited by Glowgeek; 06-07-2019 at 06:47 PM.
Old 06-07-2019, 06:47 PM
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what's going on here with VP>>>

standard 20% Nitro/ 18% Oil with synthetic & Castor,, $165 a case,, $27.50 a Gallon,,
YS/Saito 20-20,, fully synthetic,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, $246 a case,, $41 a Gallon,,
(6 Gallons in a case)

that's a $14 difference per Gallon, what are they doing there that justifies a $14 difference per Gallon ??

Jim

Last edited by the Wasp; 06-07-2019 at 06:53 PM.
Old 06-07-2019, 06:56 PM
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The fleecing of YS 20/20 addicts?
Old 06-08-2019, 01:59 AM
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Originally Posted by the Wasp
what's going on here with VP>>>

standard 20% Nitro/ 18% Oil with synthetic & Castor,, $165 a case,, $27.50 a Gallon,,
YS/Saito 20-20,, fully synthetic,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, $246 a case,, $41 a Gallon,,
(6 Gallons in a case)

that's a $14 difference per Gallon, what are they doing there that justifies a $14 difference per Gallon ??

Jim
Jim, here is another option, at least for comparison: https://fhsoils.com/product/fc-fuels/
Old 06-08-2019, 02:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Hobbsy
Jim, here is another option, at least for comparison: https://fhsoils.com/product/fc-fuels/
I have used both their glow fuel and Diesel fuel both work great. Woops, I see I have quoted my self.

Last edited by Hobbsy; 06-08-2019 at 02:42 AM.
Old 06-08-2019, 02:02 AM
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Originally Posted by the Wasp
Gary, well WildCat 20-20 YS/Saito is $44 a gallon shipped to my door, $176 a case shipped to my door

Jim

Well, Wildcut will not be shipping any of that to my door
I have bought and used some store-bought VP fuel in the past. It does come in metal cans, that is likely the reason they ship in 6 gallon cases rather than 4 as the jug dealers do. I don'y buy fuel in plastic in any case.

Your prices for fuel components are getting hit hard in one place; $35/gallon for methanol is downright ridiculous. I get it for under $3/gallon, delivered to my driveway in 50 gallon drums. As an alternative, I can buy 5 gallon cans of VP methanol from the local, non-NAPA , independent auto parts store for $35/5 gallon can! The last batch of nitro was $200/5 gallon can. Maybe you should check for a local VP dealer and buy methanol closer to home. Of course you could drive out here for a visit
Old 06-08-2019, 07:45 AM
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At 30 minutes, nice and clean


Idle at 40 minutes 1,970 rpm

Max rpm at 50 minutes run time, 9,860 rpm

Saito 56 bent rod fix. New rod, piston, Piston pin, piston ring, new Boca Bearings-C-3.

Saito 56 plain
Prop===APC 12 x 6
Plug===Fox Miracle
Fuel===Wildcat 10% full synthetic
Exhaust=stock cast early version
Broken in in 10 minute intervals at 1,000 rpm increments
Old 06-08-2019, 08:15 AM
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Originally Posted by the Wasp
I did some quick numbers for mixing my own, in the end for smaller batches like 5, 6 and 7 gallons I would only save about the price of 1 store bought gallon, not enough for all the BS in doing so,, to add that did not include shipping to me

to make 6 gallons
Nitro,,,,,,,,,,,$65 a gallon
Methanol,,, $35 a gallon
Klotz oil,,,, ,$54 a gallon
now add stabilizer and shipping

Jim

From memory, the last 7 gallon batch of 14% Nitromethane, 14% Synthetic, 2% Castor fuel batch from this spring cost:

Methanol (5 gallon VP can) $35.00
Nitromehane (1 Gallon from a 5 gallon Torco can from last year @$211.00/5 gallons) $42.20
Oil , 1 gallon $40.00

Divided by 7 gallons comes to 22.74/gallon

Making your own isn't really about saving money for the most part. It is knowing what you are getting that I like.
Anyhow, If I were ordering; Those VP 6 gallon, metal can cases would be the selling point.

Last edited by Jesse Open; 06-08-2019 at 08:18 AM.
Old 06-08-2019, 09:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Hobbsy
Jim, here is another option, at least for comparison: https://fhsoils.com/product/fc-fuels/
Red Max is good fuel. I got 8 qts. of their synth/castor blend from a club member last year to run my 2 strokes. Last time I checked their site 15% worked out to something like $34 gl, after hazmat/shipping fees. It's 20% total oil content but I think you can call them and have a custom blend made to order.
Old 06-08-2019, 11:04 AM
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Most fuels are good it seems.
Just a personal preference perhaps but, for several reasons I have avoided fuel in plastic jugs.

We had a group batch buy of fuel in our club several years ago. Came from a major fuel maker. Every person had the same problems with every gallon of fuel from that batch. All problems went away when fuel was changed. Obviously the maker ( still making fuel today) has a bad batch. Despite the overwhelming "proof" that maker refused to stand behind their product. I still refuse to buy from them .

Last edited by Jesse Open; 06-08-2019 at 11:10 AM.
Old 06-08-2019, 12:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Jesse Open
Most fuels are good it seems.
Just a personal preference perhaps but, for several reasons I have avoided fuel in plastic jugs.

We had a group batch buy of fuel in our club several years ago. Came from a major fuel maker. Every person had the same problems with every gallon of fuel from that batch. All problems went away when fuel was changed. Obviously the maker ( still making fuel today) has a bad batch. Despite the overwhelming "proof" that maker refused to stand behind their product. I still refuse to buy from them .
Care to share which fuel manufacturer that was? Won't offend me at all if it was Morgan's.
Old 06-08-2019, 06:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Glowgeek
Care to share which fuel manufacturer that was? Won't offend me at all if it was Morgan's.
Geeker, just my guess here ! on the page before Garry did use the slang "Cruel Power",, maybe it was Cool Power, I know I wont use it,I put 2 gallons of it threw my OS 50 Heli engine and the inside of the case started to turn green

sorry

Jim
Old 06-08-2019, 06:57 PM
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I cont see magnum using straight synthetic

MAGNUMFUELS | HOME PAGE
Old 06-09-2019, 01:57 AM
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https://www.horizonhobby.com/product...3A-mm-saie030s

The little 30 is available again.
Old 06-09-2019, 02:49 AM
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Saito 56 plain
Prop===APC 12 x 6
Plug===Fox Miracle
Fuel===Wildcat 10% full synthetic
Exhaust=stock cast early version
Broken in in 10 minute intervals at 1,000 rpm increments

I just watched a video by David McIntire breaking in a new Saito 56 with an APC 12 x 6 mounted, It turned 9,840, I'm in good company.
Old 06-09-2019, 03:18 AM
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Originally Posted by the Wasp
Geeker, just my guess here ! on the page before Garry did use the slang "Cruel Power",, maybe it was Cool Power, I know I wont use it,I put 2 gallons of it threw my OS 50 Heli engine and the inside of the case started to turn green

sorry

Jim
Not Cool Power,

What ARO did you use? The staining could be from other oils that will not mix. Funny because not everyone gets those green tint jobs.

If I mentioned the actual maker we could have WW3! It isn't that their fuel is bad; A matter of them not taking care of a bad batch they made.
Old 06-09-2019, 06:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Jesse Open


Not Cool Power......

......If I mentioned the actual maker we could have WW3! It isn't that their fuel is bad; A matter of them not taking care of a bad batch they made.
Well now we don't want that!

It really wouldn't matter which manufacturer sent me bad fuel, if they didn't own up to it I would never buy fuel from them again either.
Old 06-09-2019, 11:19 AM
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Well, finally got some flying in. First time in a year, nearly exactly to the day too. Got my FG-11 fired up and it ran like crap, could not get decent top end and it would burble. I wound up replacing the plug and adjusting the valves, then a slight lean on the LSN, did the final trick. Ran perfect after that, and just sipped fuel. I got 8 flights in, used maybe half a tank, which I think is an 8 ounce tank.

I wanted to maiden my Somethin Xtra, got the rebuilt 72 fired up, had to replace the cylinder on it from last years crash, and should have replaced the bearings as they howl a bit, but feel smooth as silk, go figure. I got it running beautifully, started to taxi out and the rudder stopped working. Turns out that was the best thing to happen because EVERY pushrod on the plane was bad. The thread diameter on the rods, or the clevis inside diameter are off and the clevis pull off the rods given enough force. With the tail wheel bouncing through the grass, that was enough to yank it out. Needless to say no flying for that plane. My LT-40 was the only plane I flew, and had I known that would be it, I would have left the trailer at home. I decided I didn't want to be futzing around with an unknown motor with having the run up stand, so the T-clips sat in the trailer too.

Oh well I at least got to tow with my somewhat new truck to get an idea how it handles. Just great, really liking this truck.

Now to find out what the gap should be on the plug and get the old one cleaned and gapped. It is still good, just has carbon on it.
Old 06-09-2019, 01:07 PM
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For the FG 11 spark plug: Dimensions are as follows; Hexagon width: 8mm Screw size: UNEF 1/4-32 Reach (with a washer): 5.5mm Spark-gap: 0.4-0.5mm For replacement, please specify SAITO SP-1 . Since our four cycle engineuses a mixed gasoline, please decide the numbers of flights by yourself and clean the spark plug.

.4 mm equal 0.015748"

Last edited by Hobbsy; 06-09-2019 at 01:10 PM.

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