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Welcome to Club SAITO !

Old 08-08-2006, 09:27 PM
  #4126  
blw
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Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

RVM- that would depend on your engine, fuel, prop, etc. 2000 RPM sounds good if it will do it reliably but it may want something like 2200.
Old 08-08-2006, 09:28 PM
  #4127  
bfreee
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Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

I made 2 plugs about 3/4" long out of aluminum. My friend has a lathe, so it was no big deal. Then I gently hammered them in & drilled them out a little at a time until It was making the pressure that I wanted. You could do what emvin did a few pages back. He used a perry pump designed for a 2 stroke & hooked it to the crankcase pressure. If you need more directions I can get it for you. Dimensions & such. I would say that the easiest thing to do it just use the stock SAito muffler. They also have a straight 14mm muffler if you don't want the angled one that comes with the engine.
Old 08-08-2006, 10:41 PM
  #4128  
Ron McGrath
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I have a SAITO 125 and I switched from power master 20/20 to S&W 15/20 18%synthetic and 2% Castor and it ran fine but I had to lean it out about 3/4 of a turn I did not expect that much of a change any thoughts on the reason why? I am going to try a gallon of 20/20 S&W on a OS120 sp and thought I would pose this question first.
Old 08-08-2006, 10:49 PM
  #4129  
RVM
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Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

Well, I've already got the Slimline Pitts. I guess I could tap the crankcase for pressure to run my Iron Bay Regulator, but I've never done anything like that and wouldn't know where to start. I also don't know anyone with a lathe so plugging the output would be difficult for me if I were to use that method. Also, I was hoping the reduced pressure in the Pitts would help a bit with power, you know, the freer breathing stuff and all that. I've also heard plugging a Pitts, even if you keep the exhaust resistance the same as a stock Saito muffler, would reduce power quite a bit. I find that funny, because backpressure is backpressure, regardless of how it is formed, but who knows. Then, I had also heard that a Pitts on a Saito will reduce power significantly, and that has, so far, proven to be false.

I have not found very much information concerning Pitts style mufflers on Saitos. I'm hoping it wasn't a bad choice for my application (tank on CG, Iron Bay regulator, Slimline Pitts, Saito 1.00 in a CG Super Chipmunk).


ORIGINAL: bfreee

I made 2 plugs about 3/4" long out of aluminum. My friend has a lathe, so it was no big deal. Then I gently hammered them in & drilled them out a little at a time until It was making the pressure that I wanted. You could do what emvin did a few pages back. He used a perry pump designed for a 2 stroke & hooked it to the crankcase pressure. If you need more directions I can get it for you. Dimensions & such. I would say that the easiest thing to do it just use the stock SAito muffler. They also have a straight 14mm muffler if you don't want the angled one that comes with the engine.
Old 08-08-2006, 11:03 PM
  #4130  
bfreee
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hey ron, some guys don't like it cause of expense, but as much as I spend on this hobby I figure why go cheap on fuel. its like spending hundreds of dollars to go hunting & then buy steel shot instead tungsten/iron (i don't know if you go hunting, but you get the point). I always use 30% heli fuel. The engines run cooler & make more power. So it cost more, nothing good is cheap. The idle quality is better too.

hope it helps, Bruce
Old 08-08-2006, 11:19 PM
  #4131  
bfreee
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Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

Those are all the same thoughts that i had when I was were you are. Try the slimline first & see if it works. Make damn sure you get someone to help you & hold the model level at idle & then turn the nose up & have your helper accelerate to full power & see what happens. It might only be an issue with the 180. The pitts has alot of baffling inside it. If you look up the down pipes with a flash light, you will see that the tubes go all the way to the far side of the manifold. You would also see that there are many small holes drilled in them. It may just be that the holes are too many or too large in my pipe. Try it first & then worry about it. Make sure you check it on the ground first though like i said. It will save you a dead stick & possibly a broken plane.
Old 08-08-2006, 11:30 PM
  #4132  
bfreee
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Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

also, you don't want to run the iron bay on crankcse on a 4 stroke, that will not work. you must use the muffler tap.
Old 08-09-2006, 12:41 AM
  #4133  
bfreee
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Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

wy8e, Thanks for the input, I wish I could find the damn check valves somewhere. The kit with the carb, is pricey & I don't want the carb.
Old 08-09-2006, 01:31 AM
  #4134  
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I am looking for a little help with prop selection for a Saito 91. I recently finished a 60 size Kaos (old tower kit version) with trike gear. The plane weighs 7 lbs even and much to my dismay a 14 inch prop is going to have a ground clearance problem unless I use some 3.5 inch versus the stock 2.5 inch wheels which doesn't look right, not to mention the extra drag. So much for planning. Anyway, the plane is pattern/sport and definately not 3d so I was wondering which smaller props might work. I might even consider a three blade since I still need to buy an aluminum spinner. Thanks for the help in advance. This is a great thread.
Old 08-09-2006, 01:52 AM
  #4135  
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Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !


ORIGINAL: rustypep

I am looking for a little help with prop selection for a Saito 91. I recently finished a 60 size Kaos (old tower kit version) with trike gear. The plane weighs 7 lbs even and much to my dismay a 14 inch prop is going to have a ground clearance problem unless I use some 3.5 inch versus the stock 2.5 inch wheels which doesn't look right, not to mention the extra drag. So much for planning. Anyway, the plane is pattern/sport and definately not 3d so I was wondering which smaller props might work. I might even consider a three blade since I still need to buy an aluminum spinner. Thanks for the help in advance. This is a great thread.
Rustypep

How about trying a 13 inch three blader? Just go down an inch in diameter and up an inch in pitch and see how you go.

I have the same clearance problem on a trike geared retractable and fixed my problem in this manner.

Hope this is of help.

cheers,

TC
Old 08-09-2006, 02:01 AM
  #4136  
rustypep
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Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

ORIGINAL: Thunderchild


ORIGINAL: rustypep

I am looking for a little help with prop selection for a Saito 91. I recently finished a 60 size Kaos (old tower kit version) with trike gear. The plane weighs 7 lbs even and much to my dismay a 14 inch prop is going to have a ground clearance problem unless I use some 3.5 inch versus the stock 2.5 inch wheels which doesn't look right, not to mention the extra drag. So much for planning. Anyway, the plane is pattern/sport and definately not 3d so I was wondering which smaller props might work. I might even consider a three blade since I still need to buy an aluminum spinner. Thanks for the help in advance. This is a great thread.
Rustypep

How about trying a 13 inch three blader? Just go down an inch in diameter and up an inch in pitch and see how you go.

I have the same clearance problem on a trike geared retractable and fixed my problem in this manner.

Hope this is of help.

cheers,

TC
Yep that helps a lot. I just need to figure out which pitch is best for the 91 in a pattern plane. Any recommendations? Thanks!

Old 08-09-2006, 02:11 AM
  #4137  
Thunderchild
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Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

Hi again Rusty

The book gives three different prop ranges depending on your flying intent: Sport, Scale and Aerobatic.


SPORT

12×8, 13×7, 13×8,
14×6, 14×8

SCALE

13×7, 13×8, 14×5,
14×6, 15×4

AEROBATIC

11×10, 11×11, 12×9,
12×10N, 13×9

Pick whatever category you intend to fly in and experiment. e.g. SPORT 12X8 would change to a three bladed 11X9. See how it works?

All the best

TC
Old 08-09-2006, 02:13 AM
  #4138  
RVM
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Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

I'll definitely try it first. I'm going to put it on a bench with everything at about the same position it would be in on the plane. I'll then make sure the tank is pressurized and toss and turn it to see how it works.

I haven't looked too closely at mine but I don't remember seeing any baffling. I'll peer a bit more closely this evening.

Ahh yes, the crankcase isn't pressurized in a 4-stroke the way it is in a 2-stroke. Nevermind.


ORIGINAL: bfreee

Those are all the same thoughts that i had when I was were you are. Try the slimline first & see if it works. Make damn sure you get someone to help you & hold the model level at idle & then turn the nose up & have your helper accelerate to full power & see what happens. It might only be an issue with the 180. The pitts has alot of baffling inside it. If you look up the down pipes with a flash light, you will see that the tubes go all the way to the far side of the manifold. You would also see that there are many small holes drilled in them. It may just be that the holes are too many or too large in my pipe. Try it first & then worry about it. Make sure you check it on the ground first though like i said. It will save you a dead stick & possibly a broken plane.

ORIGINAL: bfreee
also, you don't want to run the iron bay on crankcse on a 4 stroke, that will not work. you must use the muffler tap.
Old 08-09-2006, 04:09 AM
  #4139  
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Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

Hi guys,
regarding the bits in the thread about restricting the slimline pitts muffler, I would have no qualms about doing so, because. I used to build rally car engines which aren't that different to model four strokes apart from the size. Depending on manifold design, valve timing etc it isn't a one size fits all situation. Most DIY rally car builders just stick on the largest free flowing exhaust system they can thinking it will give the most power. Some engines NEED back pressure from the exhaust. One rally I was spectating on, a bloke who I'd built an engine for came to a stop near me with his engine running like the proverbial bag of hammers, he'd knocked the exhaust off just after the manifold. As the engine was very mildly tuned and used the standard cam I knew the problem was the lack of back pressure so we flattened the end of the pipe with a hammer and the engine ran like a dream. So enough waffling, basically sleeve the outlets on your slimline pitts to get the pressure Dr Saito designed his engine to run at to get the best performance, or, find a racing cam (haw)
Dave :^)
p.s. remember two strokes need free flowing exhaust systems to scavenge the cylinder at the same time fresh mixture is coming in four strokes do not!
Old 08-09-2006, 08:17 AM
  #4140  
RVM
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Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

I got a reply from Iron Bay concerning the Iron Bay Regulator. I'll just paste in what he said here. I removed the name and phone number.

E-mail from Iron Bay:

For the Cline regulator, it is not enough pressure, but the way ours works
it will be more than enough. All you need is some pressure less than 1psi
is fine...and with our regulator you can run as much pressure as you want.

Iron Bay Model Company

Service Manager

Less than 1PSI sounds good to me!

Old 08-09-2006, 08:19 AM
  #4141  
RVM
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Has anyone done any comparisons between the stock Saito muffler and the Slimline Pitts? I know some engines work better with some restriction, and some do not. If no one else has, and time permits, I will break in my 1.00 on a bench and see if the Pitts has any more or any less power than the stock Saito muffler.

Hmm, I wonder if it would be worth the effort to get more aggressive cams into our Saitos. I think I saw this mentioned somewhere else, and the conclusion was that it would not be worth much...


ORIGINAL: Dave :^)

Hi guys,
regarding the bits in the thread about restricting the slimline pitts muffler, I would have no qualms about doing so, because. I used to build rally car engines which aren't that different to model four strokes apart from the size. Depending on manifold design, valve timing etc it isn't a one size fits all situation. Most DIY rally car builders just stick on the largest free flowing exhaust system they can thinking it will give the most power. Some engines NEED back pressure from the exhaust. One rally I was spectating on, a bloke who I'd built an engine for came to a stop near me with his engine running like the proverbial bag of hammers, he'd knocked the exhaust off just after the manifold. As the engine was very mildly tuned and used the standard cam I knew the problem was the lack of back pressure so we flattened the end of the pipe with a hammer and the engine ran like a dream. So enough waffling, basically sleeve the outlets on your slimline pitts to get the pressure Dr Saito designed his engine to run at to get the best performance, or, find a racing cam (haw)
Dave :^)
p.s. remember two strokes need free flowing exhaust systems to scavenge the cylinder at the same time fresh mixture is coming in four strokes do not!
Old 08-09-2006, 09:29 AM
  #4142  
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Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

Bill
I received a new carb for my Saito 80,part#SAI80821C. Would it be just like the old one in respect to difficult set-up to get a good mid-range, especially inverted? . Or can I expect to same problems and go ahead and order the upgrade rebuild kit for it. Saito#SAI80144.
Can you tell me what the difference is between the stock & upgrade is?


Doug[8D]
Old 08-09-2006, 10:36 AM
  #4143  
scratchonly
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Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

I use a 13x7 3 blade on my enya 90 (wash out my mouth with soap) and it pulls fine on a 9 lb bipe.
Old 08-09-2006, 11:33 AM
  #4144  
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Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

Thanks TC. That makes perfect sense. I was thinking a 14x6 two blade originally so 13x7 sounds like a good place to start and scratchonly reinforces that thought, albeit with an Enya . Nice to know I can play around with a 12 inch 3 blade if I need more clearance though. Thanks!
Old 08-09-2006, 03:40 PM
  #4145  
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Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

Anyone ever replaced the bearing on a Saito 65? If so, is there anything I should watch out for? Particularly in the cam/pushrods/timing etc area. Thanks
/colin
Old 08-09-2006, 04:30 PM
  #4146  
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I have a saito fa-220 that will not idle inverted unless glow driver is on. This engine is currently in a aeroworks yak 54 with a 20 x 8 prop, when I pull back on the elevator and go vertical it immediately leans out and loses power. The fuel tank is mounted on the CG and is a fair distance from the engine. Nobody at horizon seems knowledgable enough to help me. Will installing the pump help? I have no idea what to do next. Any help would be appreciated.

DaveG
Old 08-09-2006, 06:14 PM
  #4147  
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Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

Changing the bearing in a 65 is no harder than any other engine.
Old 08-09-2006, 06:15 PM
  #4148  
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Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

would the saito 170 raidial be a good match for the kmp september fury
Old 08-09-2006, 07:19 PM
  #4149  
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Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

Hey Mr Robison!!!

You still out there Bill?

Haven't seen you post for a few days. []

TC
Old 08-09-2006, 07:54 PM
  #4150  
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Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

davidjguerra, i am considering an onboard glow system for my 180. Have you considered doing the same?

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