Welcome to Club SAITO !
11-10-2008, 06:55 PM
My Feedback: (1)
RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
I have had mine for about 3 months. The one on the 150 seperated in flight and the 180 was leaking exhaust oil at the seam today. They replaced the 150 and said they will fix or replace the 180.
A single aluminum pop rivet doesn;'t seam to hold it, especially if it gets bumped.
A single aluminum pop rivet doesn;'t seam to hold it, especially if it gets bumped.
11-10-2008, 07:47 PM
RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
Tom,
This problem has only occurred occasionally on the 1.80 model TurboHeader. We are working hard to solve the problem. The unit has a press fit and is bonded as well. We will have a permanent fix very soon. As I stated, return the muffler and I will fix or replace it.
Jim
This problem has only occurred occasionally on the 1.80 model TurboHeader. We are working hard to solve the problem. The unit has a press fit and is bonded as well. We will have a permanent fix very soon. As I stated, return the muffler and I will fix or replace it.
Jim
11-10-2008, 07:48 PM
RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
ORIGINAL: KWJ48
My bearings are about shot in my Saito 91. Is there a how to guide somewhere on how to replace them?
Thanks
Kenny
My bearings are about shot in my Saito 91. Is there a how to guide somewhere on how to replace them?
Thanks
Kenny
11-10-2008, 08:22 PM
My Feedback: (2)
RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
Old Fart, I think that the recommended valve clearance for something like my .82 is on the order of .004 inches, so you're good. I've heard of guys setting them at .0015 by using a piece of cigarette wrapper as a 'feeler guage'. They claim that they get more power, and others say that the narrow clearance shouldn't make a difference.
TomTreese, I wonder if you could be getting too much back pressure with a 10" pipe that might screw up the fresh fuel charge going into the cylinder. Just a thought.
Bob
TomTreese, I wonder if you could be getting too much back pressure with a 10" pipe that might screw up the fresh fuel charge going into the cylinder. Just a thought.
Bob
11-10-2008, 08:47 PM
RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
Here is Bill's bearing replacement post
ORIGINAL: William Robison
Otter:
The only hard part is pulling the prop drive. With the engine in your hand go to your local auto supply house, they may well have loaner tools, including a puller that will do the job. Just pop it free while you're there.
Back home? Pull the rocker covers, take the rocker pivot pins out along with the rockers and push rods. There will be either plastic or steel thrust washers on the inner side of the rockers. No mistake, the load pushes them to the center. Keep the intake and exhaust parts separate, put them back where they came out.
Pull the carb, intake pipe, and the back plate. Now remove the four screws holding the cylinder. Rock it a little to break it free. Turn the crank toward TDC as you lift the cylinder a little more, when the skirt of the cylinder is above the crank case move it to the rear to disconnect the con rod. Unless there's a problem in the top end do not take the piston out of the cylinder. Note the push rod tubes and their seals will come with the cylinder. Set the assembly aside.
At this point the crank will slide out the rear. But putting it back in and getting the cam in time is a bear, so pull the cam housing before you pop the crank. Try not to damage the gasket, its thickness sets the mesh of the timing gears.
Make sure the new bearings will slide on the crank shaft. If they will not, use some oil and 600 grit paper to polish it until the bearings do slide on. Clean it up, slide the rear bearing on and leave it. If the front bearing has rubber seals, pop either one out. If it has the metal shields, leave them both in.
With nothing left in the case but the bearings, put it in the oven at 250 degrees for 20 minutes or so. Then, protecting your hands, a dowel can be used to push the front bearing out, and a sharp rap on some hard wood will make the rear bearing fall out.
While the case is still hot, slide the crank and rear bearing in, slide the front bearing on, then push the shaft in while pushing the front bearing in at the same time. This uses one to guide the other, you wont get one cocked. Oh yes. The front bearing seal. If you took one out, the open side goes to the case. If you had the metal shields, either way is fine.
Reassemble in reverse order.
Notes on assembly: Cam timing has been covered too many times to repeat it here, search on "Saito" and "Cam" - you'll find several of my posts about it, including how to check timing after assembly. Use a very light smear of RTV on the joint between the cylinder and case, same on the back plate. Don't forget the push rod tubes when you mount the cylinder. Sliding the lower seals about 1/3 of the way up the tube will make it easier to locate them. Looking at the push rods you will see one end is rounded, the other is tapered before the rounded end. The tapered end goes to the top.
With the crank case and installed crank shaft mounted in your test stand, or lightly clamped in a vise, turn the cam to get the timing mark straight down, then use your X-Acto knife with a #11 blade to hold the gear, the blade against the gasket face, and set the assembly into the crank case. Check the timing, if OK continue with the assembly of the engine.
Check the timing? How? Easy. Get your push rods out, remembering to keep the exhaust and intake separate. Now while the engine is still on the stand/in the vise, set the push rods into the tappets. Use your left index finger to push the inlet rod in, and your left middle finger to push the exhaust rod. With your right hand turn the crank in its normal direction of rotation. After about 1/2 turn you will feel your middle finger (exhaust) being pushed up, then as you complete one full turn your middle finger will be going back down and the index finger will be pushed up. The crank should have the crank pin at the top, centered in the opening for the cylinder mounting. Rock the crank, you'll feel your two fingers going up and down one opposite the other - as one rises the other will fall. The center point with both fingers equally displaced should be with the crank pin in its center position. This is exactly the same as observing the valve rocker movement with the engine completely assembled, you're just doing it without having the rockers installed. Sorry, I don't have any pictures of this procedure. If wanted/desired I can shoot some, but I'll have to pull an engine apart to do it.
Bill.
Otter:
The only hard part is pulling the prop drive. With the engine in your hand go to your local auto supply house, they may well have loaner tools, including a puller that will do the job. Just pop it free while you're there.
Back home? Pull the rocker covers, take the rocker pivot pins out along with the rockers and push rods. There will be either plastic or steel thrust washers on the inner side of the rockers. No mistake, the load pushes them to the center. Keep the intake and exhaust parts separate, put them back where they came out.
Pull the carb, intake pipe, and the back plate. Now remove the four screws holding the cylinder. Rock it a little to break it free. Turn the crank toward TDC as you lift the cylinder a little more, when the skirt of the cylinder is above the crank case move it to the rear to disconnect the con rod. Unless there's a problem in the top end do not take the piston out of the cylinder. Note the push rod tubes and their seals will come with the cylinder. Set the assembly aside.
At this point the crank will slide out the rear. But putting it back in and getting the cam in time is a bear, so pull the cam housing before you pop the crank. Try not to damage the gasket, its thickness sets the mesh of the timing gears.
Make sure the new bearings will slide on the crank shaft. If they will not, use some oil and 600 grit paper to polish it until the bearings do slide on. Clean it up, slide the rear bearing on and leave it. If the front bearing has rubber seals, pop either one out. If it has the metal shields, leave them both in.
With nothing left in the case but the bearings, put it in the oven at 250 degrees for 20 minutes or so. Then, protecting your hands, a dowel can be used to push the front bearing out, and a sharp rap on some hard wood will make the rear bearing fall out.
While the case is still hot, slide the crank and rear bearing in, slide the front bearing on, then push the shaft in while pushing the front bearing in at the same time. This uses one to guide the other, you wont get one cocked. Oh yes. The front bearing seal. If you took one out, the open side goes to the case. If you had the metal shields, either way is fine.
Reassemble in reverse order.
Notes on assembly: Cam timing has been covered too many times to repeat it here, search on "Saito" and "Cam" - you'll find several of my posts about it, including how to check timing after assembly. Use a very light smear of RTV on the joint between the cylinder and case, same on the back plate. Don't forget the push rod tubes when you mount the cylinder. Sliding the lower seals about 1/3 of the way up the tube will make it easier to locate them. Looking at the push rods you will see one end is rounded, the other is tapered before the rounded end. The tapered end goes to the top.
With the crank case and installed crank shaft mounted in your test stand, or lightly clamped in a vise, turn the cam to get the timing mark straight down, then use your X-Acto knife with a #11 blade to hold the gear, the blade against the gasket face, and set the assembly into the crank case. Check the timing, if OK continue with the assembly of the engine.
Check the timing? How? Easy. Get your push rods out, remembering to keep the exhaust and intake separate. Now while the engine is still on the stand/in the vise, set the push rods into the tappets. Use your left index finger to push the inlet rod in, and your left middle finger to push the exhaust rod. With your right hand turn the crank in its normal direction of rotation. After about 1/2 turn you will feel your middle finger (exhaust) being pushed up, then as you complete one full turn your middle finger will be going back down and the index finger will be pushed up. The crank should have the crank pin at the top, centered in the opening for the cylinder mounting. Rock the crank, you'll feel your two fingers going up and down one opposite the other - as one rises the other will fall. The center point with both fingers equally displaced should be with the crank pin in its center position. This is exactly the same as observing the valve rocker movement with the engine completely assembled, you're just doing it without having the rockers installed. Sorry, I don't have any pictures of this procedure. If wanted/desired I can shoot some, but I'll have to pull an engine apart to do it.
Bill.
11-10-2008, 09:22 PM
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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
I must own 40+ 4 strokers ranging from .20 to 1.20 most of them Saitos, anything larger and I'll use a gas engine. Started flying 4-strokers over 25 years ago. They just go better with scale airplanes. I don't own any of the latest versions or Golden Knights, because I've only had one Saito go bad with a bad bearing.
11-10-2008, 10:35 PM
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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
Thanks w8ye, I just love listening to the low idle of my .56. But I guess I'll crank it a little bit, I'm afraid it'll quit in flight as you have pointed out.
11-10-2008, 10:43 PM
RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
Trouble with my 56 you cannot hear it up in the air with the idle real low. I give it a shot of throttle every now and then to make sure it is still there.
If you run a 13-4 it will idle real low
If you run a 13-4 it will idle real low
11-10-2008, 10:54 PM
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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
You are right, I also blip the throttle once in a while just to make sure it is still running 
Plus If someone besides me with a 2 stroker punch his throttle up, it kinda annoys me not hearing my planes sound.
Plus If someone besides me with a 2 stroker punch his throttle up, it kinda annoys me not hearing my planes sound.
11-10-2008, 11:02 PM
RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
That's the reason why I fly with a small group and we fly one person at a time.
No one turns on any transmitters and no engines are run while there's a plane in the air.
We stay out there all day and have a picnic lunch.
Each of us has a different flying style and type of plane though
No one turns on any transmitters and no engines are run while there's a plane in the air.
We stay out there all day and have a picnic lunch.
Each of us has a different flying style and type of plane though
11-10-2008, 11:21 PM
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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
From where I fly we do not really have an official group, it is a bunch of combined nitro & electric flyers plus land based RC hobbyist that just converge once a week in an open area outside the city. Originally, we started with fellow fixed wing flyers but people just shows up with their MT and buggies and turned out to be a cookout also. There are 2 wide paved road widely separated (15ft apart) and we use one as a runway and the other for the rest to enjoy. We still try to manage professionalism among us and always check on each others frequencies before each flight and make sure no one has the same channel active in one time. But sometimes it just happens that 3 or more planes are in the air and even though were flying counter clock wise it is still scary at times.
11-10-2008, 11:32 PM
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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
I'm looking into buying my next saito which is a FA-100 or a FA-100GK. Any thoughts and ideas on which one to buy? I really don't care much about the appearance as it will be under a cowl and I've read it is every much the same except for the outer finish. Also considering the FA-91S, but leaning more on the FA-100.
11-11-2008, 04:53 AM
RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
ORIGINAL: beeper0358
Thanks w8ye, I just love listening to the low idle of my .56. But I guess I'll crank it a little bit, I'm afraid it'll quit in flight as you have pointed out.
Thanks w8ye, I just love listening to the low idle of my .56. But I guess I'll crank it a little bit, I'm afraid it'll quit in flight as you have pointed out.
11-11-2008, 04:57 AM
RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
ORIGINAL: TomTreese
On further review.
I ran the 180 today with a Turbo-muffler and it was turning at 8400 Rpm vs. the 7100 rpm with the flex pipe??. So I called Saito and they said that's normal. If so why are they selling that worthless flex muffler????[:@] Plus the 90* elbow is worthless with this muffler as well???
Horizon's website is extremely lacking in product discriptions. Ah!!! what product descriptions[:'(]
ORIGINAL: TomTreese
I have some strange things going on with my Saito 180 on a Dave Patrick Ultimate??
1. I have had a problem with the stock muffler vibrating loose at the cylinder head. The lock nut keeps loosening?? Even with plumbers tape and red lock-tight?
2. So I used a Turbo-muffler with plumbers tape and it worked for 32 flights and then it started to loosen.
3 So I tried the Saito Flex-Muffler with nipple. (10 1/4" long) I tried it with the Saito 90* angle, made for this, but it has no way to bottom out so it just flops in the sleeve. So I used the 90* adaptor from Turbo-muffler and it worked fine as far as securing the muffler.
But Here is the problem I LOST 1,000+ RPMS WITH THAT 10" PIPE ON THE ENGINE?? WHAT GIVES??? THE BEST I CAN GET IS 7100 RPM'S
The engine is mounted at 90* with a carbonfiber composite mount. This problem has been intermittent over the 230 flights. I did have the cylinder head replaced after the stock muffler unit stripped the threads. I did this before installing the light 90* Turbo-muffler. http://www.rcuniverse.com/market/item.cfm?itemId=439720
Any suggestions. Thanks!
I have some strange things going on with my Saito 180 on a Dave Patrick Ultimate??
1. I have had a problem with the stock muffler vibrating loose at the cylinder head. The lock nut keeps loosening?? Even with plumbers tape and red lock-tight?
2. So I used a Turbo-muffler with plumbers tape and it worked for 32 flights and then it started to loosen.
3 So I tried the Saito Flex-Muffler with nipple. (10 1/4" long) I tried it with the Saito 90* angle, made for this, but it has no way to bottom out so it just flops in the sleeve. So I used the 90* adaptor from Turbo-muffler and it worked fine as far as securing the muffler.
But Here is the problem I LOST 1,000+ RPMS WITH THAT 10" PIPE ON THE ENGINE?? WHAT GIVES??? THE BEST I CAN GET IS 7100 RPM'S
The engine is mounted at 90* with a carbonfiber composite mount. This problem has been intermittent over the 230 flights. I did have the cylinder head replaced after the stock muffler unit stripped the threads. I did this before installing the light 90* Turbo-muffler. http://www.rcuniverse.com/market/item.cfm?itemId=439720
Any suggestions. Thanks!
I ran the 180 today with a Turbo-muffler and it was turning at 8400 Rpm vs. the 7100 rpm with the flex pipe??. So I called Saito and they said that's normal. If so why are they selling that worthless flex muffler????[:@] Plus the 90* elbow is worthless with this muffler as well???
Horizon's website is extremely lacking in product discriptions. Ah!!! what product descriptions[:'(]
11-11-2008, 07:34 AM
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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
The thing is OF, that thousands of other people use that very same stuff with no issues at all. I have two or three of those crinkle pipes laying around because I immediately replaced them with cast mufflers, then with Turbo Headers.
11-11-2008, 03:45 PM
RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
ORIGINAL: Hobbsy
The thing is OF, that thousands of other people use that very same stuff with no issues at all. I have two or three of those crinkle pipes laying around because I immediately replaced them with cast mufflers, then with Turbo Headers.
The thing is OF, that thousands of other people use that very same stuff with no issues at all. I have two or three of those crinkle pipes laying around because I immediately replaced them with cast mufflers, then with Turbo Headers.
Well thats just fine and dandy for you
but what about all the people who cough up the extra bucks so they can have a scale looking exhaust installation???? while losing a significant amount of performance??.Should'nt that be discussed out in the open?What figures did you come up with running a flex exhaust compared to a standard saito item??
11-11-2008, 03:51 PM
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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
I never saw any significant difference in the 13mm diameter flex vs stock exhaust vs turbo header on the 125.
But, while doing that particular comparison, I was still a noob at tuning...at least even a bigger noob than I currently am....
But, while doing that particular comparison, I was still a noob at tuning...at least even a bigger noob than I currently am....
11-11-2008, 04:05 PM
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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
I got rid of the flex pipes because they were ugly and had a terrible sound, The TurboHeader typically enhances rpm by 240 to 310 depending on which Saito it is except for the 1.25 which seems to be a 9,000 to 9,200 rpm engine no matter what you put on it. I never said we should not discuss anything, discussion is good in most cases.
11-11-2008, 09:06 PM
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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
Has anyone used a 3-blade prop on the 62? I'm thinking of using a 12x6-3 on a 40 size Kyosho warbird. The plane should end up at the upper end of advertised weight with retracts and clearcoat, but I would like a bit more than scale speed to wow the girls at the field.
I'm currently flying a Hangar 9 40 size T-34 with a 12x7-3 mounted on a Saito 82 and am thrilled with that setup.
I'm currently flying a Hangar 9 40 size T-34 with a 12x7-3 mounted on a Saito 82 and am thrilled with that setup.
11-11-2008, 09:45 PM
RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
less diameter and more pitch = more speed within reason. The trade off is vertical performance
For the 62 http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXAA36&P=7
For the 62 http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXAA36&P=7
11-11-2008, 10:09 PM
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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
Three of my planes have 3-blades and I haven't seen the drastic drop in performance everyone I talked to warned me of. I've considered an 11x7-3 or maybe will think on the 11x8-3 you suggest, but the 12" lends itself to a more scale appearance.............I know, you cant tell much when it's spinning.
I've run a 12x6 2-blade on this engine flying a 1/6 scale Cub with good results. I figured a plane with cleaner lines might fly well using the same diameter and pitch with a 3-blade. Now to find a suitable 2 3/4" spinner for any 3-blade.
Thanks for your response w8ye!
I've run a 12x6 2-blade on this engine flying a 1/6 scale Cub with good results. I figured a plane with cleaner lines might fly well using the same diameter and pitch with a 3-blade. Now to find a suitable 2 3/4" spinner for any 3-blade.
Thanks for your response w8ye!
11-12-2008, 05:55 AM
RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
ORIGINAL: Hobbsy
I got rid of the flex pipes because they were ugly and had a terrible sound, The TurboHeader typically enhances rpm by 240 to 310 depending on which Saito it is except for the 1.25 which seems to be a 9,000 to 9,200 rpm engine no matter what you put on it. I never said we should not discuss anything, discussion is good in most cases.
I got rid of the flex pipes because they were ugly and had a terrible sound, The TurboHeader typically enhances rpm by 240 to 310 depending on which Saito it is except for the 1.25 which seems to be a 9,000 to 9,200 rpm engine no matter what you put on it. I never said we should not discuss anything, discussion is good in most cases.