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Old 03-14-2006, 11:03 PM
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Should I contact the moderator? Isn't "Big 2 Stroke" a swear in the "Club Saito" forum?
Old 03-15-2006, 12:40 AM
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Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !


ORIGINAL: William Robison



I believe in soft mounts. <snip>
Bill.
Bill, what is your opinion of the Gator RC soft mount?

http://www.gatorrc.com/gator/ss%20mount.htm

-Tom
Old 03-15-2006, 12:47 AM
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Propeller designations

Guys,

I'm still playing with props trying to tweek the best power while staying inside the red line RPM for my Saito's. I have come across a number of props with the letter "W" after the pitch size e.g 12X7W. Can anyone tell me what this refers to please and its difference to the prop without the "W" designator?

Cheers,

Thunderchild
Old 03-15-2006, 12:58 AM
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Tom:

Gator RC doesn't handle trash. Their stuff that I've seen has all been excellent, including my favorite retracts - the MK line. They're not the least expensive shop in the world, but I wouldn't be afraid of anything they handle.
---------------------------------
ThunderCam:

The "W" in a prop's designation means it has "W"ider blades than the normal prop in that size. Most often used for 3D flying.

Bill.
Old 03-15-2006, 01:06 AM
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ORIGINAL: William Robison

Tom:

Gator RC doesn't handle trash. Their stuff that I've seen has all been excellent, including my favorite retracts - the MK line. They're not the least expensive shop in the world, but I wouldn't be afraid of anything they handle.
---------------------------------
ThunderCam:

The "W" in a prop's designation means it has "W"ider blades than the normal prop in that size. Most often used for 3D flying.

Bill.

Thanks Bill - Should have guessed Wide chord - Doh!

ThunderCam
Old 03-15-2006, 06:48 AM
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ORIGINAL: William Robison

Dealspeed:

As the engine runs in it will need to be leaned, the tight engine needs more fuel, the looser engine will run poorly at the same setting. 3/4 turn in from the initial LS setting, after two gsllons, is probably slobbery rich.

You should have checked the valve clearance at least three times by now. Do it, then start leaning the LS, and check the HS as you go.

I've put you on the list as member number 232.

Bill.
Can you send me the info on valve clearance as well. I have about 2 gallons through my 125 and have not checked valve clearance yet either. Thanks in advance.
Old 03-15-2006, 07:04 AM
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wxman:

Adjusting the valves isn’t hard, but it needs to be done accurately.

Tools needed are the Allen keys to pull the rocker covers, and to fit the adjuster screws in the rockers along with a wrench to fit the lock nuts of the adjuster screws. A “Box” wrench is preferred, but an open end wrench will work. Finally, you will have a dial indicator to measure the clearance, or a feeler strip of 0.0015” (preferred) or 0.002” thickness. And a toothpick.

Pull the rocker covers and the glow plug. Turn the prop forward and watch the rockers. You’ll see the exhaust rocker move to open the exhaust valve, as you continue turning the exhaust will start to close and the intake will begin opening. At the point where they are open equally the piston should be at the top of its stroke. Stick your toothpick in the plug hole and rock the crank to be sure it is. This is also a quick check of the cam timing, the overlap point ( where both valves are open equally) should be with the piston at the top of its stroke, This is commonly called TDC (Top Dead Center). With the piston at TDC and the valves in the overlap position, the engine is at the point where the exhaust stroke ends and the intake stroke begins. Now turn the prop exactly one full turn, use your toothpick again to be sure you’re at TDC. This puts the engine at the end point of the compression stroke, and at the start point of the power stroke. This is the position to adjust the valves.

Now use your feeler strip to check the gap between the end of the rocker and the top of the valve stem. There should be a very light drag as you move the feeler. Judging the “Slight drag” is somewhat an art – the springs aren’t strong enough to keep you from sliding a feeler in that’s thicker than the true clearance. If you pull the feeler out quickly and hear a snap, the clearance is too tight; you just heard the valve slam shut. The adjustment is too tight. Or if you feel no drag at all, the valve is too loose.

When you are turning the adjuster screw set it to a slightly higher drag than you want, when you tighten the lock nut there will be some distortion of the threads, this will make the adjustment a little looser than you measured. Recheck the clearance after tightening the lock nut, make correction as needed.

Saito doesn't specify an interval between adjustments. I'll check them before the first run, and every 10-20 minutes for the first hour or so until everything is seated. After that I will pull the rocker covers before going out for a flying session to oil the rockers, while the covers are off I'll give then a quick wiggle. When you get familiar with it you'll be able to tell roughly whether or not they need to be reset.

And I've put you in as member number 233.

Bill.
Old 03-15-2006, 08:59 AM
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I started with a Saito 50 about 11 years ago in my Goldberg Cub. I have recently replaced it with a 72. I also have a 1.20 that is going into a T/F Corsair 60, and I recently purchased a 100 twin to put in the T/F Cessna 182 that I hope to get started on this summer. Once bought an OS 91, but it made me feel uneasy, so I replaced it with the 72.

FFourU in Okla
Old 03-15-2006, 09:26 AM
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I need a little help here. I bench ran my 72 through 4 twelve oz tanks of fuel. It never seems to settle down and idle below about 3500. I screwed around a little with the LS setting, and now I think I have it way off. The book doesn't give a starting setting for th LS screw. Can someone give me a good starting adjustment for the LS screw? Also curious about using soft mounts on the 72, it is necessary? I have to redo the engine mounts, and if it really should have soft mounts, now would be the time to install them.

FfourU

Here are my 2 other Saitos, just waiting to be mounted.
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Old 03-15-2006, 09:57 AM
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Hi! Wonder if anyvone can give me some tips? I´am going to run in my new Saito 220. is there any special fluid to use or somthing else to think about.
Thank´s
Stiffe
Old 03-15-2006, 10:38 AM
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The starting position of the LS mixture on a 72 is the head of the screw being just below flush with the throttle arm if the throttle arm is all the way on the throttle barrel with the throttle closed.

Soft mounts are not needed with the 72

Enjoy,

Jim
Old 03-15-2006, 11:09 AM
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put me on the list AGAIN! I have a .91 and now another 100.. Geez. That is the 3rd 100 I have had.. 2 new and one used..


LATER
Old 03-15-2006, 12:20 PM
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Ah HAAAAA! Remove the glow plug .....TDC ...ok now I'm doing
it the right way ( after all these years ) So Saito must think buyers get online training Bill, you on the Saito payroll?

Y0ur BRain on drums,
have a nice day



ORIGINAL: William Robison

wxman:

Adjusting the valves isn’t hard, but it needs to be done accurately.

Tools needed are the Allen keys to pull the rocker covers, and to fit the adjuster screws in the rockers along with a wrench to fit the lock nuts of the adjuster screws. A “Box” wrench is preferred, but an open end wrench will work. Finally, you will have a dial indicator to measure the clearance, or a feeler strip of 0.0015” (preferred) or 0.002” thickness. And a toothpick.

Pull the rocker covers and the glow plug. Turn the prop forward and watch the rockers. You’ll see the exhaust rocker move to open the exhaust valve, as you continue turning the exhaust will start to close and the intake will begin opening. At the point where they are open equally the piston should be at the top of its stroke. Stick your toothpick in the plug hole and rock the crank to be sure it is. This is also a quick check of the cam timing, the overlap point ( where both valves are open equally) should be with the piston at the top of its stroke, This is commonly called TDC (Top Dead Center). With the piston at TDC and the valves in the overlap position, the engine is at the point where the exhaust stroke ends and the intake stroke begins. Now turn the prop exactly one full turn, use your toothpick again to be sure you’re at TDC. This puts the engine at the end point of the compression stroke, and at the start point of the power stroke. This is the position to adjust the valves.

Now use your feeler strip to check the gap between the end of the rocker and the top of the valve stem. There should be a very light drag as you move the feeler. Judging the “Slight drag” is somewhat an art – the springs aren’t strong enough to keep you from sliding a feeler in that’s thicker than the true clearance. If you pull the feeler out quickly and hear a snap, the clearance is too tight; you just heard the valve slam shut. The adjustment is too tight. Or if you feel no drag at all, the valve is too loose.

When you are turning the adjuster screw set it to a slightly higher drag than you want, when you tighten the lock nut there will be some distortion of the threads, this will make the adjustment a little looser than you measured. Recheck the clearance after tightening the lock nut, make correction as needed.

Saito doesn't specify an interval between adjustments. I'll check them before the first run, and every 10-20 minutes for the first hour or so until everything is seated. After that I will pull the rocker covers before going out for a flying session to oil the rockers, while the covers are off I'll give then a quick wiggle. When you get familiar with it you'll be able to tell roughly whether or not they need to be reset.

And I've put you in as member number 233.

Bill.
Old 03-15-2006, 01:47 PM
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OK..... when everything else fails, just read the instruction book. I was mistaking the throttle stop screw for the LS idle adjustment. Your comment about setting it even with the throttle barrel now makes sense. I got out the book, and figured out that I was turning the wrong screw.

Thanks for the help!
Old 03-15-2006, 01:48 PM
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New members:

234 FFOURU
235 Stiffe
---------------------------
FFOURU:

Agreement with Jim, but a soft mount wont hurt anything if you can stand the weight. Nice, but not necessary.
---------------------------
Stiffe:

The FA-220, according to Hobbsy, runs fine on 5% nitro. My choice is 15%, any more doesn't seem worth while to me. Do use a castor blend oil, avoid all synthetic. And alwsys run the engine dry at the end of a session, give it a good slug of after run oil in the crank case vent and spin the engine after running it dry.

Bill.
Old 03-15-2006, 01:58 PM
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ORIGINAL: William Robison

And alwsys run the engine dry at the end of a session, give it a good slug of after run oil in the crank case vent and spin the engine after running it dry.

Bill.
[/b]
Hey Bill, is there an easy way to get the oil in the vent? Seems like everytime I try to squirt some in there it wants to squirt back out, especially while turning the prop.
Old 03-15-2006, 02:28 PM
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Soft mounts - I will be installing a Saito 1.20 in my T/F Corsair soon. I have a set of J-Tec "Snuf-Vibe" mounts, wondering if it is worth the trouble installing these in my Corsair? The book shows the engine mounted at 45 deg from horz, I'm thinking about mounting it inverted, any thoughts?
Old 03-15-2006, 05:15 PM
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Rob:

I thought I had just recently mde a post about getting the ARO into the engine.

I use a plastic bottle with a spout, set the plane in a position such that the spout will go in the ven hose with the spout down. Then, as you turn the engine it will pump oil in, and air out.
---------------------------------
F4U:

Up to the FA-120 a soft mount is nice to have, the FA-150 should have a soft mount, the FA-180 all but requires a soft mount.

I've never used the J-Tec mount, but I have not herd anything bad about them either.

Bill.
Old 03-15-2006, 06:49 PM
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Member number 229 checking back in!

I have run about 4 tanks thru my Saito 82. For break in, the High Speed was set at 4 turns out. I have adjusted it down to about 2 and three quarter turns out but it still only goes up to about 6800 rpms with a 14X6 prop.

Is it okay to lean it out to 2 turns or less?

On the low speed, I havent adjusted it yet, any advice on how lean I can go there?

Thanks,
Old 03-15-2006, 07:48 PM
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I ran the fifth tank of fuel through my Saito 72 today with the engine mounted on the airplane. turning a 14x6 Zinger prop all I could get at wot was a little less than 8,000 rpm. At idle it dies below 3,100 rpm??? I adjusted the needle valve at full throttle until it ran smooth at 7,900 to 8,000 and then backed off the adjustment by about 100 rpm slightly rich. I tried to lean out the idle screw a little, but it still doesn't want to run below 3,000 rpm. It acts like it is loading up and starts running rough. Throttle advance seems to accelerate OK. Any ideas why I can't get it to idle down and run smooth?
Old 03-15-2006, 07:53 PM
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You should be running a 13-6 on a 72. A 14-6 is too much load.

Your idle needs to be leaned down to where the idle screw is slightly below the throttle arm surface if the throttle arm is installed all the way on with the throttle at idle.

Enjoy,

Jim
Old 03-15-2006, 08:10 PM
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Mr. Bill:
I have a 150 Saito going into a Beach Bonanza 120, weight about 14 lbs. or a hair over, would like to put a 3 bladed prop on it, MA shows only a 14X7 and then the next one up is 16X8, was thinking of around 15X6 or 8 being the ideal prop, what would be a good combination for this application, would like not to much RPM, for more scale sounds, but I think the 16X8 is to much prop, any ideas ? thanks, in advance........
JohnS555
Old 03-15-2006, 08:50 PM
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Hawk & F4U:

Jim didn't specify which of you he was talking to, but his comment applies to you both. The 14x6 is in spec for both the FA-72 and 82, but it's on the high end. Drop to a 13x6 or possible a 14x4, see what happens.

Might seem strange calling for the sme prop on two different size engines, but the FA-82 is a higher rpm engine than the FA-72. They will use the same prop, but the 82 will have about 500 more rpm with it.

Also, both these engines have the plastic back plate. The FA-72 is prone to eating the upper o-ring seal on the intake pipe. Grab the pipe aand pull it away from the cylinder. If it moves easily you've probably destroyed the seal. And it's not going to run well until it is replaced. Hawk, check your 82 also. Not as common on the 82 but it could happen.

The FA-72 should spin the 13x6 about 9800-10K, the FA-82 should be around 10500 with the same prop.

Neither of you have enough time to gvet a really good idle yet, and if the o-ring is bad you will never get it. When adjusting the idle turn the idle needle in very slowly while rhe engine is at a low throttle setting, as you lean it the engine will pick up rpm and smooth out. Lower the idle speed and play with the LS needle some more. As you adjust the LS be sure to keep checking the HS too, one will affect the other. With no air leaks you both should be able to get 2500-2800 rpm idle at this stage.
---------------------------------
John:

You're right. a 16x8 three blade would be 'way too much. A 15x6 or 15x7 is more like it.

Go to [link=http://www.zingerpropeller.com/index.htm]Zinger Propellor[/link] for your three blade needs. They have both composite and wooden three and four blade props in almost any size you might want. The wooden ones are expensive, but replacement blades are available for very reasonable prices. You could even buy a complere 15x7 and get a set of 6" pitch and another of 8" pitch to try. totsl around $40 for the prop and two spare blade sets.

Bill.
Old 03-15-2006, 10:44 PM
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Jim and I measured my .72 with an APC 12x6 at 10,300. An APC 13x6 tached at 10,400. This was using Omega 15%.
Old 03-15-2006, 11:19 PM
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well i got my ceramic bearings installed and they feel kinda "ceramic" when spun by hand, is this normal?
they dont feel tight or bad, just kinda ceramic

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