I have a Saito 100 that has a lot of baked on varnish on the muffler. Anyone know of an easy way to clean it?

Thanks

There has been a ton of posts on this using crock pots and anti=freeze, Being its small a guess might be put it in a jar with some
antifreeze put it the sun (sort a sun tea type thing) after a day or so might work that way do not need a crock pot which becomes
worthless for food prep after this use martin

Thanks, sounds like a reasonable method. I'll try it.

John

Yep crock pot and antifreeze over night on low and it will look good as new.

I got one for less than 5 bucks at a yard sale. Just keep the kitty cats away from it.

I just cleaned 2 of my engines with acetone and a small wire brush. It got evey bit of oil varnish off and they look brand new. The wire brush I used is the size of a toothbrush . I can't remember where I got it but it gets in the cylinder vanes and tight spots and did not scratch the aluminum.

Not to mention small children. The insidious thing about anti freeze as a poison is that the taste appeals to children and pets. (It has also been used in a number of murders).

jess

I did use the small brush and laquer thinner worked well but engines were not too bad to begin with martin

Hello; Handcleaner and a toothbrush, takes about 10 minutes. About the (relative) toxicity of antifreeze; I was a mechanic in a logging type situation, it was common practise to taste the leak to know what the fluid was. I don't know exactly how much antifreeze I "tasted" over the years, I don't recall any side effects. not to mention 90 weight,ATF,15-40, and maybe even a little battery acid. I guess that dates me.

I recently tried the antifreeze method on a Saito muffler myself. It didn't work so well for me. Lots and lots of elbow grease was required. Even had to pick at some hard deposits with a dental pick. Left it on overnight just like was recommended. I dunno. Just didn't work. Does it have to be new antifreeze straight from the jug? Cuz it wasn't. [sm=rolleyes.gif]

"I don't know exactly how much antifreeze I "tasted" over the years, I don't recall any side effects. not to mention 90 weight,ATF,15-40, and maybe even a little battery acid. I guess that dates me." I don't think I'd taste the leak if I drove a port-a-pottie truck.

[b]It isn't the antifreeze that does the job, it's the additives. The additives are used up over a period of time, and whether used as engine coolant or engine cleaning it has to be replaced.

So in your case, T&C, try some fresh for your next try. Do not get the "Environmentally Friendly" type, along with the propylene glycol replacing the ethylene glycol it also has a much milder additive package, really doesn't work worth a rap.

Down with "Eco-Nazis!"

Bill.

I have a bottle of Cheveron engine cleaner that I have yet to try and use. Anyone had good results with this ? Wonder if it is re-packed anti-freeze.

I've had very good results using dishwashing powder although I haven't tried dishwashing liquid yet. I dissolve about a spoonful of powder in boiling water then let it cool until it's just barely comfortable to dip a finger in. The engine in the photo only needed to be soaked for maybe 10 minutes but the muffler took quite a bit longer because it had badly baked on castor. The piston only needed a few seconds before all the varnish rubbed off using my fingers (that's after about 30 hours of running in a 4 stroke). Because it's designed for washing dishes it's obviously not poisonous

The principle ingredient of anti-freeze is glycol. The glycol family are fairly strong solvents. I had always presumed that this was the reason the anti-freeze method works. Interesting that William Robison says it is the additives, any idea which one?

Dishwasher detergent used to be made of a phosphate but that degraded the lakes and streams. It was then changed to an acid. Hence the reason that some cheaper glasses turn cloudy. I think I would be careful of leaving it on any engine parts for a protracted time.

[b]Stripes:

I base this on practical experience, not laboratory testing. When working with heavy trucks we had a cooling system that held some 40 gallons of water/glycol mix. Annual replacement of the antifreeze in a fleet of several thousand units would have been a healthy expense all by itself.

For reasons I wwont go into here, diesels are more prone to damage from cooling system contamination than our gasoline powered cars, so the protection was important.

By using a product from the Nalco Chemical company called "Nalcool 2000" in the cooling system, adding one pint every 16000 miles we kept the inside of the system looking factory fresh.

My conclusion from this was that the glycol kept doing its job, but its job wasn't cleaning the system. The Nalcool replenished the cleaning ability.

Further note - when we would take an owner's unit on contract maintenance one of the things we did was a coolant check. Dirty system? Add Nalcool, cleaned it right up.

Side note- all true soaps are phosphates by definition. Not all soaps are good for washing your hands though.

Cleaning soaps are in a class called "Wetting agents." They will bind solid particles to water molecules. Not all wettig agents are soaps, there are also detergents that do the same thing, but they aren't phosphates, and they aren't soaps.

Trisodium phosphate is a commercial soap, not uncommonly used for cleaning concrete floors. Still available, but the Eco-Nazis don't like it. Downunder's powdered dish soap may have a percentage of TP in it.

A good detergent is potassium permanganate. This is a deep purple powder, it's used for cleaning the ion exchange resins in older water softener systems. It is far more poisonous than ethylene glycol, but it rinses freely from the resin tanks in your water system so used properly there is no danger to your health.

The Nalcool 2000 I mentioned looks like it could well be potassium permanganate, so I think it's another compound worth a try for cleaning engine parts. Just be careful.

Hope this helps, and maybe encourages more experimentation.

Bill.

EDIT>>spelling. wr.

I would try a scrap piece of aluminium with the potassium permanganate before throwing your engine in it, I have a strong potassium permanganate solution I made up at work, I will see if I have something to try clean in it tomorrow, I'll tell you how it goes Bill.

If you get it on your hands it stains them brown and makes you look like someone who likes to smoke the herb, so watch out. Also it can be explosive if mixed with petrol or other hydrocarbons and I think that combination is shock sensitive to.

Here're the subjects A piece of ally tube covered with castor and cooked on over a gas stove till golden brown, and a heli muffler

Nope, didn't work, actually stained it darker brown. Any idea's?

[b]Rupe:

Thanks for testing the potassium permanganate.

First idea is that the Nalcool 2000, in spite of the very similar color, did not have potassium permanganate in it.

Additionally, the Nalcool did not have the slippery/oily feel of a soap, so I think trisodium phosphate also was not a part of it.

But a hot solution of TSP might be worth a try.

Bill.

Not a problem Bill. I will ask around the building at work see if anyone has some to try, but will probably only be next week, I am off tomorrow and Friday.

I dont have a crockpot, and dont want to buy once every two years I may want to clean a glow engine. I see you guys talking about lots of different things to clean with, but enough with the theories and discriptions with different chemicals, while interesting it does not help me much. Inthe end what I need to know is what should we use to clean glow engines with that is readily available to the average person ????

Thanks

"what I need to know is what should we use to clean glow engines with that is readily available to the average person" I'd like to know to.

[b]OK, no crock pot and no desire to buy one just for cleaning the odd engine now and then.

If you have a hood over your cook stove with an exhaust fan - be sure it blows outside your house, many do not - you can use a pot on one of the burners. This will need careful monitoring for the first hours, you need to keep it around 200F, and not let it boil. An unscratched pyrex pot is best, with a lid. After use it can be cleaned and used for cooking again. Scratched? You shouldn't be using it anyway - the scratch is a weak spot. The lid? As the liquid vaporizes it will condense on the inside of the lid and drip back into the pot.

Or in the oven, if the thermostat works well at low temperatures. Still need the lid on the pot and the exhaust fan. Also, in the oven you can use a cookie sheet under a plastic pot with a snap on lid. A five quart ice cream bucket for example, or the tub you got your oleomargarine in for smaller engines and parts.

In all these cases, antifreeze (so far) is the solvent of choice.

If your wife has an ultrasonic jewelry cleaner, that works for parts small enough to fit inside. And so long as she will let you.

Back to the crock pot. It can be operated much more safely than directly heating the antifreeze. Using the same plastic oleo bucket I mentioned before put the parts and antifreeze inside and snap the lid on. Put this inside your crock pot and add water until it's near the top of your plastic bucket. When when you turn it on, it will heat the water, the heat will transfer through the plastic and heat the inside. The water vapor will still condense on the inside of the lid and drip back into the pot, on the plastic bucket itself you will see the top bulge as the air expands, but none of the glycol vapor will escape. And afterward the pot will still be safe for cooking.

Bill.

Bill,

You mean if my wife has an ultrasonic small engine parts cleaner I might let her use it for jewelry if I run out of parts to clean

Thanks for the ideas !! I will try a covered pot on the stove with antifreeze. I dont have an exaust fan, but I will open the house and run a fan in the window, that should keep the fumes out

Jett

[b]JP:

If your pot is anything but bare stainless steel or Pyrex, don't use it later for cooking. The glycol can work its way under a teflon coating, and it tends to bind to aluminum remaining poisonous for later food use.

Bill.

So lets get some Nalcool and cook something in it and find out.

I had been concerned about silicate deposits from the antifreeze being left on the model engine like they are left on the inside of automotive engines so I consulted with a cooling engineer at Cadillac about it. He dismissed silicate formation in such a short time but focused in immediately on the glycol as the solvent involved.

(Edited to get my words out of Bill's quote.)