ST's Ugly Muffler
05-04-2006 | 10:06 PM
#1
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 171
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
From: henderson,
NV
ST's Ugly Muffler
[8D]It's a shame that St couples a great engine with an UGLY muffler. Most of the after-market mufflers cost almost as much as the original engine and muffler. I can't write either Itialian or Chinese, but someone should let ST know that they almost have a great product and the part that doesn't measure up is the easy part to design and produce. Not only is the muffler ugly but if mounted in the horizontal position with the exhaust pointing down, the expansion chamber will fall off the manifold that bolts to the rest of the engine unless it is very carefully tightened. I have lost three over the years off my ST .51. I currently have my ST .51 mounted vertically on a SIG Something Extra and it will stay on planes I can mount it either upright or inverted, not horizontal.
05-04-2006 | 10:12 PM
#3
Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 495
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
From: South West Rocks N.S.W., AUSTRALIA
RE: ST's Ugly Muffler
Hi kojak41,
I agree with your statements re ST mufflers. The good news is that in the case of the larger capacities the motor can be purchased with or without muffler so you can save $$$s on something you may not need as you are going to make or purchase a muffler to fit in a cowl. The even better news is STs tolerate homemade/non standard mufflers better than any other motor I have experience with.
Cheers,
Colin
I agree with your statements re ST mufflers. The good news is that in the case of the larger capacities the motor can be purchased with or without muffler so you can save $$$s on something you may not need as you are going to make or purchase a muffler to fit in a cowl. The even better news is STs tolerate homemade/non standard mufflers better than any other motor I have experience with.
Cheers,
Colin
05-04-2006 | 10:28 PM
#4
Senior Member
RE: ST's Ugly Muffler
Mike,
About two years ago, before they moved their production to China, the .40-.51 engines had the 'economy muffler' choice, which was only offered on the .40, but would fit all three sizes.
It was a normal muffler that resembles the older OS mufflers...
...[link=http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXFV94&P=RF]It is still there[/link]!
You will have to get the pressure nipple also...
...But the cost of this "false economy" soon reveals itself. It costs over 60% of the new engine, complete with the new 'ugly' muffler and even the Macs 'One-Piece' isn't much more expensive...
A stock muffler shouldn't cost more than 25% of the complete engine+muffler cost. Yet it does, for this engine...
About two years ago, before they moved their production to China, the .40-.51 engines had the 'economy muffler' choice, which was only offered on the .40, but would fit all three sizes.
It was a normal muffler that resembles the older OS mufflers...
...[link=http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXFV94&P=RF]It is still there[/link]!
You will have to get the pressure nipple also...
...But the cost of this "false economy" soon reveals itself. It costs over 60% of the new engine, complete with the new 'ugly' muffler and even the Macs 'One-Piece' isn't much more expensive...
A stock muffler shouldn't cost more than 25% of the complete engine+muffler cost. Yet it does, for this engine...
05-04-2006 | 10:39 PM
#5
My Feedback: (1)
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 931
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
From: Great Falls, MT
RE: ST's Ugly Muffler
I concur!! the muffler sucks! The engine is incredible however. Mucho power, great idle, great transition. I have a Tower muffler and the bolt holes almost line up. Since my bolt into the cylinder threads are trashed-(another poor design)- I am going to slot the bolt holes in the case to fit the Tower muffler.
This 51 just blows away my TT46 in every aspect except muffler pains. My 4*40 and I miss the ST51.
Have fun, MikeB
This 51 just blows away my TT46 in every aspect except muffler pains. My 4*40 and I miss the ST51.
Have fun, MikeB
05-05-2006 | 12:53 AM
#6
Senior Member
My Feedback: (14)
RE: ST's Ugly Muffler
ORIGINAL: kojak41
[8D]It's a shame that St couples a great engine with an UGLY muffler. Most of the after-market mufflers cost almost as much as the original engine and muffler. I can't write either Itialian or Chinese, but someone should let ST know that they almost have a great product and the part that doesn't measure up is the easy part to design and produce. Not only is the muffler ugly but if mounted in the horizontal position with the exhaust pointing down, the expansion chamber will fall off the manifold that bolts to the rest of the engine unless it is very carefully tightened. I have lost three over the years off my ST .51. I currently have my ST .51 mounted vertically on a SIG Something Extra and it will stay on planes I can mount it either upright or inverted, not horizontal.
[8D]It's a shame that St couples a great engine with an UGLY muffler. Most of the after-market mufflers cost almost as much as the original engine and muffler. I can't write either Itialian or Chinese, but someone should let ST know that they almost have a great product and the part that doesn't measure up is the easy part to design and produce. Not only is the muffler ugly but if mounted in the horizontal position with the exhaust pointing down, the expansion chamber will fall off the manifold that bolts to the rest of the engine unless it is very carefully tightened. I have lost three over the years off my ST .51. I currently have my ST .51 mounted vertically on a SIG Something Extra and it will stay on planes I can mount it either upright or inverted, not horizontal.
-----------
Drill the proper size hole for a #4 sheet metal screw where the two round tubes overlap (penetrating the outer muffler tube and then the inner header tube) and then screw them together with a self-tapping sheet metal screw. Problem solved.
05-05-2006 | 08:24 AM
#9
Senior Member
My Feedback: (14)
RE: ST's Ugly Muffler
ORIGINAL: BillS
The person responsible for design/marketing should be shot.
Bill
It's a shame that St couples a great engine with an UGLY muffler.
Bill
----------
European flyers went through a serious bout of losing fields to noise some years ago. Super Tigre responded by producing mufflers that actually made their engines quieter. This design has been around for a fairly long time now.
I just bought an Ultrathrust muffler for my G90. If I'm going to spend money for a new muffler, I might as well get a performance boost out of it. I seriously doubt that this muffler will be as quiet as the stock muffler.
Ed Cregger
05-05-2006 | 08:35 AM
#10
My Feedback: (2)
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 1,379
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
From: Weatherford,
TX
RE: ST's Ugly Muffler
What do you want? Performance or beauty. If you think the ST muffler looks bad then look at how a Mac might look or a mousse can may look. You get's what you pays for!
Cheers,
Chip
Cheers,
Chip
05-05-2006 | 08:44 AM
#11
Senior Member
My Feedback: (3)
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,486
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
From: Martinsville,
IN
RE: ST's Ugly Muffler
On all my older Tigres I drilled out muffler bolt threaded engine cases so I could use straight thur bolts. Don't even think about using muffler gaskets, just a little RTV. The economy mufflers are light and great and I do like the bullet Italian swing mufflers, but they are heavy two. A tower 46 muffler and a little filing to make muffler holes wider are the best fix. Don't forget the dab of RTV .
05-05-2006 | 09:53 AM
#12
Senior Member
RE: ST's Ugly Muffler
Swing Mufflers are quite easy to adapt
ST muffler looks bad then look at how a Mac might look
Bill
05-05-2006 | 04:29 PM
#13
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 3,305
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
From: Lyndonville, VT
RE: ST's Ugly Muffler
Big improvment on the new production units when they switched to thru bolting[8D] First thing you do is throw out the metric bolts and replace with 6-32 dubro cap heads and elastic stop nuts. I have a new G90 going on a Goldberg Extra with a slimline pitts (somehow their dual exaust tubes make a 2 stroke sound better) Also an old worn G51 that I was given years back, can't kill it
Regards,
Pete
Regards,
Pete
05-06-2006 | 12:20 AM
#14
Senior Member
RE: ST's Ugly Muffler
ORIGINAL: pilotpete2
...First thing you do is throw out the metric bolts and replace with 6-32 Dubro cap heads and elastic stop nuts.
...First thing you do is throw out the metric bolts and replace with 6-32 Dubro cap heads and elastic stop nuts.
The whole Imperial world is trying (and succeeding) to convert to the metric system and this is what is bothering you?
To change the bolts to an old, soon to be replaced size???
If they seem puny to you, change to 0.5 mm larger diameter bolts, with the same thread...
Ny-Lock nuts exist in the metric system too, you know...
05-06-2006 | 03:30 AM
#15
Senior Member
My Feedback: (14)
RE: ST's Ugly Muffler
ORIGINAL: DarZeelon
Pete,
The whole Imperial world is trying (and succeeding) to convert to the metric system and this is what is bothering you?
To change the bolts to an old, soon to be replaced size???
If they seem puny to you, change to 0.5 mm larger diameter bolts, with the same thread...
Ny-Lock nuts exist in the metric system too, you know...
ORIGINAL: pilotpete2
...First thing you do is throw out the metric bolts and replace with 6-32 Dubro cap heads and elastic stop nuts.
...First thing you do is throw out the metric bolts and replace with 6-32 Dubro cap heads and elastic stop nuts.
The whole Imperial world is trying (and succeeding) to convert to the metric system and this is what is bothering you?
To change the bolts to an old, soon to be replaced size???
If they seem puny to you, change to 0.5 mm larger diameter bolts, with the same thread...
Ny-Lock nuts exist in the metric system too, you know...
--------------
Metric nuts and bolts are still a PITA to find over here, Dar. Even in this day and age. Then, when you do find them, they want some highly inflated price for them.
05-06-2006 | 07:04 AM
#16
My Feedback: (102)
RE: ST's Ugly Muffler
MicroFasteners. com has a great selection of metric socket head screws in alloy, aluminum and stainless, plus nyloc nuts and washers and all of good quality. They are fast to ship and their prices are very reasonable. They also have several high quality, small tools.
05-06-2006 | 07:04 AM
#17
Senior Member
RE: ST's Ugly Muffler
ORIGINAL: Artisan
Metric nuts and bolts are still a PITA to find over here, Dar. Even in this day and age. Then, when you do find them, they want some highly inflated price for them.
Metric nuts and bolts are still a PITA to find over here, Dar. Even in this day and age. Then, when you do find them, they want some highly inflated price for them.
If you try Microfasteners and RTL, you will see the availability of metric fasteners is not very different from that of Imperial sizes.
The prices are not very different either.
Maybe some local suppliers in your area don't hold a big supply of metric sizes.
...A pita in may country is a flat, pocket like bread, in which you can put falafel balls, potato fries, tkhina and salad...
Or you can wipe Humus off your plate and eat...<GGG>
05-06-2006 | 07:34 AM
#18
My Feedback: (1)
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 363
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
From: East Coast
RE: ST's Ugly Muffler
I like DarZeelon's version of a PITA better, mmmmmm... I just purchased an ST G-90 for my Aeroworks Edge 540T but as the original poster stated, that muffler is so ugly. Also too big. I'd have to cut a lot of the cowling out the bottom just to fit it. So I was instructed by a few fellow RCU members to purchase the MACS bolt through 1 piece muffler. I am waiting for it to arrive from Tower but I am sure it will be a much nicer fit and look. Also the black finish will look awesome against the red and white bottom. I guess I am basing it on looks but I was also told that the muffler would be just as good, if not better than the stock muffler performance wise... Just my 2 cents... Happy Flying!!!
I just purchased an ST G-90 for my Aeroworks Edge 540T but as the original poster stated, that muffler is so ugly. Also too big. I'd have to cut a lot of the cowling out the bottom just to fit it. So I was instructed by a few fellow RCU members to purchase the MACS bolt through 1 piece muffler. I am waiting for it to arrive from Tower but I am sure it will be a much nicer fit and look. Also the black finish will look awesome against the red and white bottom. I guess I am basing it on looks but I was also told that the muffler would be just as good, if not better than the stock muffler performance wise... Just my 2 cents... Happy Flying!!!
05-06-2006 | 07:41 AM
#19
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 3,305
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
From: Lyndonville, VT
RE: ST's Ugly Muffler
Yes, we have been converting to the Metric system for a long time, but in everyday use here, SAE size nutz and boltz is the norm and just more convenient. If I'm not mistaken, the Russians were the last to switch from Metric altimeters to English foot units, so the old Imperial measures are not totally dead
For ATC, Meters are too large a unit of measure.
Pita bread, Yummy Very popular here also.
Regards,
pete
For ATC, Meters are too large a unit of measure.Pita bread, Yummy
Very popular here also.Regards,
pete
05-06-2006 | 09:01 AM
#20
Senior Member
RE: ST's Ugly Muffler
ORIGINAL: SaCCaL72
...I just purchased an ST G-90 for my Aeroworks Edge 540T but as the original poster stated, that muffler is so ugly. Also too big. I'd have to cut a lot of the cowling out the bottom just to fit it. So I was instructed by a few fellow RCU members to purchase the MACS bolt through 1 piece muffler. I am waiting for it to arrive from Tower but I am sure it will be a much nicer fit and look. Also the black finish will look awesome against the red and white bottom.
...I just purchased an ST G-90 for my Aeroworks Edge 540T but as the original poster stated, that muffler is so ugly. Also too big. I'd have to cut a lot of the cowling out the bottom just to fit it. So I was instructed by a few fellow RCU members to purchase the MACS bolt through 1 piece muffler. I am waiting for it to arrive from Tower but I am sure it will be a much nicer fit and look. Also the black finish will look awesome against the red and white bottom.
This Macs One-Piece is neat and pretty light.
Some people also expect it to add power and even call it 'a one-piece tuned-pipe/silencer'...
It is not!
Compared to the standard, ugly, drop-off ST muffler, which has a huge internal volume for gas expansion, this Macs unit may even make your engine lose a few hundred RPM.
I hope it doesn't.
05-07-2006 | 01:24 AM
#22
Senior Member
My Feedback: (14)
RE: ST's Ugly Muffler
Well, I like the pitas in your country, but a PITA (Pain In The *****) over here is a different matter. <G>
Usually, when I need something metric, it will be one that I do not already have - but that goes without saying. When you do find a small selection of metric nuts and bolts, they are made of slag metal (white metal) and are the wrong length.
I'm just grousing here, but it would be nice if the world got its act together on at least this one issue. I don't care which way it goes as long as we are all the same. Yes, I know which country is holding out, but I don't know why.
Usually, when I need something metric, it will be one that I do not already have - but that goes without saying. When you do find a small selection of metric nuts and bolts, they are made of slag metal (white metal) and are the wrong length.
I'm just grousing here, but it would be nice if the world got its act together on at least this one issue. I don't care which way it goes as long as we are all the same. Yes, I know which country is holding out, but I don't know why.
ORIGINAL: DarZeelon
Ed,
If you try Microfasteners and RTL, you will see the availability of metric fasteners is not very different from that of Imperial sizes.
The prices are not very different either.
Maybe some local suppliers in your area don't hold a big supply of metric sizes.
...A pita in may country is a flat, pocket like bread, in which you can put falafel balls, potato fries, tkhina and salad...
Or you can wipe Humus off your plate and eat...<GGG>
ORIGINAL: Artisan
Metric nuts and bolts are still a PITA to find over here, Dar. Even in this day and age. Then, when you do find them, they want some highly inflated price for them.
Metric nuts and bolts are still a PITA to find over here, Dar. Even in this day and age. Then, when you do find them, they want some highly inflated price for them.
If you try Microfasteners and RTL, you will see the availability of metric fasteners is not very different from that of Imperial sizes.
The prices are not very different either.
Maybe some local suppliers in your area don't hold a big supply of metric sizes.
...A pita in may country is a flat, pocket like bread, in which you can put falafel balls, potato fries, tkhina and salad...
Or you can wipe Humus off your plate and eat...<GGG>
05-07-2006 | 01:33 AM
#23
Senior Member
RE: ST's Ugly Muffler
Ed,
It is not only a Super Tigre muffler "problem"...
...OS engines and all their South-East Asian clones use the same metric threads that ST, Webra, MVVS, MDS, Moki, Rossi and many other 'rare' engines use...
It is that, or sticking with K&B and with Fox (Fitzpatrick?) engines that have Imperial threads.
It looks like you will have your PITA and have to eat it too... I recommend some humus and falafel balls
It is not only a Super Tigre muffler "problem"...
...OS engines and all their South-East Asian clones use the same metric threads that ST, Webra, MVVS, MDS, Moki, Rossi and many other 'rare' engines use...
It is that, or sticking with K&B and with Fox (Fitzpatrick?) engines that have Imperial threads.
It looks like you will have your PITA and have to eat it too... I recommend some humus and falafel balls
05-07-2006 | 07:44 AM
#25
Senior Member
My Feedback: (19)
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 784
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
From: Orchard park,
NY
RE: ST's Ugly Muffler
Engines with metric screws and imperial prop nuts amaze me. It's seems like a concession that the dummies will be touching the prop nut so we better make that English threads. I have often wondered if they do that for distribution in metric countries.
