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SuperTigre mid-range problems?

Old 01-03-2007, 09:24 PM
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freeonthree
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Default RE: SuperTigre mid-range problems?

Here's some interesting reading about ST engines and it's founder/designer, in case you havn't seen it before. http://craftsmanshipmuseum.com/Garofali.htm
Old 01-03-2007, 09:27 PM
  #27  
Hobbsy
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Default RE: SuperTigre mid-range problems?

Either direction is fine or which ever way gives the straightest shot at the fuel nipple.
Old 01-03-2007, 09:53 PM
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Default RE: SuperTigre mid-range problems?

Just figured out what my engine is ! G2300 has the "20" on the side of it. Boy, there cheap to buy ! $149.00 No wonder it won't idle. lol
Old 01-03-2007, 10:32 PM
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Default RE: SuperTigre mid-range problems?

OK, so it turns out that I have a G2300. On sale right now for $149.99 at Tower Hobby's. The manual was there too, and I can see now that the HS setting it came with (4 1/4 out) was way too rich. Soon as the weather gets better (friday) I will have another go at it. Boy, these engines are real cheap (inexpensive). lol
Old 01-03-2007, 11:11 PM
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Default RE: SuperTigre mid-range problems?

They have them cheaper than that for members with $25 off an order of $149 or more. They indeed are a bargain. What else can you buy that will spin a 17X6 at 9000 or better.
Old 01-03-2007, 11:24 PM
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Default RE: SuperTigre mid-range problems?

ehhaust pressure to the gas tank and a small tuned can -they turn a reliable smooth mid ranged- 9000 on 18x8 APC
absolutely the most under rated mis understood engine around
Old 01-03-2007, 11:37 PM
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Default RE: SuperTigre mid-range problems?

If I can just get this one to idle good, I'll be happy... I set the HSN to 2 1/2, and the LSN by blowing in the fuel inlet with the barrel set to 1/32, until I could here the air coming thru a little. At least it's worth a try... Have any of you guys tried that method (blowing into the fuel inlet) ? Does the 2 1/2 turns out on the HSN sound more reasonable that the 4 1/2 is was at when I got it ? And can anyone suggest a starting setting for the LSN that might be better, such as actual turns out. Again, it's a G2300 with a Bisson Pitts muffler. It has a 16x8 master air screw on it at this time...
Old 01-03-2007, 11:39 PM
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Default RE: SuperTigre mid-range problems?

Also make sure your fuel nipple on your carburator is pointed at the rear engine mount bolt hole.
Old 01-03-2007, 11:46 PM
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Default RE: SuperTigre mid-range problems?

I checked that, and it's pointed right at the rear mounting hole. Thanks ! Any idea how many turns out the LSN should be approx. ? or do you agree with the method I described above ?
Old 01-04-2007, 01:27 AM
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jgs77
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Default RE: SuperTigre mid-range problems?

I second what was said earlier about engine requiring a higher idle setting. I think this is the real issue.
Old 01-04-2007, 01:31 AM
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Default RE: SuperTigre mid-range problems?

I just read in two places, where you should not change the angle of the fuel nipple. They want the slot in the spray bar aiming right down the center of the throat.
Old 01-04-2007, 01:40 AM
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Default RE: SuperTigre mid-range problems?


ORIGINAL: buzzingb

They have them cheaper than that for members with $25 off an order of $149 or more. They indeed are a bargain. What else can you buy that will spin a 17X6 at 9000 or better.

----------------


Shhhhhh! Not too loud! The folks at Tower may hear you and raise the prices! <G>


Ed Cregger
Old 01-04-2007, 01:46 AM
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Default RE: SuperTigre mid-range problems?

I noticed that they have a good selection of replacement parts as well.
Old 01-04-2007, 10:43 PM
  #39  
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Default RE: SuperTigre mid-range problems?

Well, I found my problem... It was a lack of fuel pressure ! At idle, the fuel was going back towards the tank ! I just plugged one of the exhaust tubes of the Pitts muffler. When we plugged it with a finger, it idled down to 1400 rpm and did great ! Im puttin it back to factory settings now, and will post my results tomorrow. Later I want to put one of those 300 dollar gas engines from Tower Hobby's on it. (32 cc's I believe) Thats the ticket !
Old 01-05-2007, 12:20 AM
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Cyberwolf
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Default RE: SuperTigre mid-range problems?

All of you thats replacing your tigre carbs with something else ,and want to get rid of them, give me a PM maybe we can work something out.
Old 01-05-2007, 12:35 AM
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Default RE: SuperTigre mid-range problems?

I'd like to have a spare one too, just to disect and play with. My friend pulled the spray bar out of my engine, and for the slot to be aimed straight down the throat, the inlet nipple has to be pointed straight back. Everything I have read said point it at the rear mounting hole. lol Thats weird... Hey, mine idled great with the exh 1/2 plugged, and it was set way to rich for the back pressure at that time. I can't wait to see how it runs tuned properly with the one exhaust tube closed off. Im concerned about oil collecting in the tube though, I may make a tiny drain hole for it... Ha ! put an adjustable valve in there and have a tuneable exhaust ! lol
Old 01-05-2007, 04:25 AM
  #42  
NM2K
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Default RE: SuperTigre mid-range problems?

Psssst! The sky is falling! The sky is falling!

So much for everything you read. <G>


Ed Cregger


P.S. I'm not pickin' on you, just pickin' at you.
Old 01-05-2007, 09:01 AM
  #43  
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Default RE: SuperTigre mid-range problems?

Finally, the midrange can be adjusted by rotating the spraybar a hair. Just loosen the two screws next to the high-speed needle and rotate the spraybar just a tiny bit. Either direction is OK. This will help you get a good transition and midrange.

From the SuperTigre MFG Support Forum http://www.supertigre.com/faq/product-faq.html#q22

The straight down the middle setting is the starting point like all other recommended carb settings.
Old 01-05-2007, 11:42 AM
  #44  
freeonthree
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Default RE: SuperTigre mid-range problems?

That is not a mixture adjustment for the mid range, it just holds the spraybar in place, and you want the slot in the spraybar aiming down the center of the throat. On my Italian G2300, that puts my fuel inlet nipple pointing straight back.
Old 01-05-2007, 12:41 PM
  #45  
freeonthree
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Default RE: SuperTigre mid-range problems?

Thats funny... I read somewhere else where they wanted the slot in the spray bar aimed straight down the throat, and as a mechanic, that sounds more logical to me... The straightest shot is always better for performance, except of course with accellator pumps, where ya need to get the fuel past the edge of a throttle plate (butterfly) as it starts to open. Changing the angle of attack with the spray bar slot will only impede the flow of fuel at all throttle settings. If your midrange is too rich, you need to lean the bottom end and fatten up the top end. If the carbs are designed poorly, then the carbs are designed poorly, but I think most problems are tuning issues. Correct fuel pressure and back pressure is always an important factor with any fuel metering system, though some carburetors are touchier than others. Carbs with float bowls are more forgiving about the fuel pressure, but back pressure still effects the jetting results. These little engines need correct fuel pressure and back pressure to function properly. My problem was obvious to me when I saw the fuel going back towards the tank at idle, and a quick finger over one of the Bisson Pitts mufflers tubes made the fuel go back where it belongs, to the carburetor. If your needle settings are richer than the factory settings, then you most likely have a lack of fuel pressure due to a lack of back pressure in the exhaust. A lack of back pressure alone will make it so you need to run the needles much further out than the norm. These carbs were designed to operate correctly with the stock muffler, which has one small opening. I hear alot of folks complaining about a rich midrange, or a bad transition, but no mention of the muffler their using. If you have a Bisson Pitts muffler for instance, try pluggin one outlet and starting over. If nothing else, at least you'll be able to get your engine to idle well below 2000 rpm. Later today, I'll tell you what else you can acheive. Im not ready to accept the fact that Supertigre, with all the engines that they sell, are selling them with faulty carbs. If I can get mine running correctly, then you can too, and so far, by plugging one side of my exhaust, my engine will idle at 1400 rpm nicely. I'll be working on the rest of the runability issue's today, and post my results later.
Old 01-05-2007, 03:15 PM
  #46  
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Default RE: SuperTigre mid-range problems?

ORIGINAL: Dennis Flora
If the carbs are designed poorly, then the carbs are designed poorly, but I think most problems are tuning issues.
If that's the case, why is it that changing carbs seems to solve most people's problems almost immediately.

And why is it that you almost never hear of other manufacturers (such as OS or ThunderTiger) making engines that are so hard to tune they have a good percentage of customers complaining about the poor midrange? People seem to be able buy OS/TT engines, install them, tweak the needles and fly with perfect throttling and reliability. Throw an OS/TT carb on an ST and you get the same situation. So is it bad tuning or bad carb design? I think the answer is obvious.

A lack of back pressure alone will make it so you need to run the needles much further out than the norm. These carbs were designed to operate correctly with the stock muffler, which has one small opening. I hear alot of folks complaining about a rich midrange, or a bad transition, but no mention of the muffler their using.
All those having problems at our club are using the stock-standard mufflers. I've found that the transition can be improved slightly by going to a mousse-can muffler with the ST90, but it's still not good enough to be considered acceptable when compared to other brands.
Old 01-05-2007, 04:16 PM
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Default RE: SuperTigre mid-range problems?

As I said, I would post the results, and hear are my findings. This carburetor is no damm good. Now it will idle slow, but thats it. Everything else turned to crud, and I was unable to correct with any settings. Im gettin the 32cc gas engine from Tower. I believe beyond a shadow of a doubt, that the carb I have at least, is not metering the fuel correctly, and I won't waste any more time with it.
Old 01-05-2007, 07:04 PM
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Default RE: SuperTigre mid-range problems?

dennis - i totally agree with you. this is the same way I have tuned my chinese 2300s, by adding back pressure through closing down the pitts type muffler ports some, which gives you enough back pressure to get good carb tuning.

the problem with most pitts type mufflers, in my opinion, is they are built with outlet tubes which are far bigger than the engines they are sold for need.

For that matter my 2300s tune very well with the muffler supplied by super tiger with the engine. if you look at the riginal muffler you can readily see the smaller outlet area it has.

Ed
Old 01-05-2007, 07:21 PM
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Default RE: SuperTigre mid-range problems?

Yeah, it's comon sense, but alot of people don't get it right off. I was ready to give up here, but somewhere along the line, the nipple on the muffler got plugged pretty badly. Todays earlier test doesn't count now. Im puttin the ST back on and trying again with both tubes unplugged first, see what happens, then if needed, re-plug the one. If I still have no luck, then i'll give up on it. Im back to work... lol Isn't this a fun hobby ?
Old 01-05-2007, 08:35 PM
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Default RE: SuperTigre mid-range problems?

No change, it still won't run correctly. I believe it's a bad carburetor now too. Just found out that I can take this plane back, so thats what im going to do tomorrow. Im back to my 40 size plane with Saito's. Life will be trouble free again. I think I have the big plane craving out of my system now finally. lol

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