120AX with 0% Nitro
09-17-2006, 12:20 PM
#1
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Thread Starter
120AX with 0% Nitro
Is anybody running his 120AX without nitro and 18-20% oil?
If so, which glow plug and prop are you using? Do you have any tach readings you can share?
Joseph
If so, which glow plug and prop are you using? Do you have any tach readings you can share?
Joseph
09-17-2006, 02:51 PM
#2
Senior Member
RE: 120AX with 0% Nitro
I can`t provide any help on the 120 ax, however I have run my 91 fx a great deal on 0% and 15%. When I tached the same prop on those two fuels the very same day(within minutes) I just got 200 rpm more on the 15% after adjusting the needle according to the different fuels. When I flew the plane I could not notice any difference at all(sport flying) Maybe in a 3-d application there would be a noticeable difference in transition or pull out from hover, but I don`t know as I have not tried that on this engine/fuels. I suspect you could easily use 0% in the 120 ax for normal flying
09-17-2006, 04:28 PM
#3
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RE: 120AX with 0% Nitro
Any engine will run on 0% fuel if thats what you must use. If you tune it correctly and can accept few slightly higher idle, and use a hotter plug it should run just fine. If you want very low idle on any engine when you run 0% nitro then you can use a onboard glow system. It gives as good low and reliable idle as 10-15% nitro and is usually not that expensive.
09-17-2006, 10:05 PM
#4
RE: 120AX with 0% Nitro
The other day I had an MDS 78 (with a 4 stroke plug) idling at 1400 with a 14x6 prop on zero nitro without cheating by using the glow driver. That was about it's limit though and with another hundred or so revs it was dead reliable when slamming the throttle open. My son gets a very low idle with his SC 120 too but I haven't tached it yet.
09-18-2006, 09:41 AM
#7
RE: 120AX with 0% Nitro
A 4 stroke plug is longer in the nose than a normal plug but in larger sized engines it's a long way away from the piston. They're roughly the same length as a long reach idle bar plug. And talking about long reach plugs, they're actually a better fit in OS engines than their own plugs.
09-18-2006, 10:14 AM
#8
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Thread Starter
RE: 120AX with 0% Nitro
Thanks downunder, I'll try that
Turk1, I believe this engine has only 1 shim. Is this a "last resort" to increase compression for zero nitro?
Thanks guys
Turk1, I believe this engine has only 1 shim. Is this a "last resort" to increase compression for zero nitro?
Thanks guys
09-18-2006, 12:09 PM
#9
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RE: 120AX with 0% Nitro
ORIGINAL: downunder
The other day I had an MDS 78 (with a 4 stroke plug) idling at 1400 with a 14x6 prop on zero nitro without cheating by using the glow driver. That was about it's limit though and with another hundred or so revs it was dead reliable when slamming the throttle open. My son gets a very low idle with his SC 120 too but I haven't tached it yet.
The other day I had an MDS 78 (with a 4 stroke plug) idling at 1400 with a 14x6 prop on zero nitro without cheating by using the glow driver. That was about it's limit though and with another hundred or so revs it was dead reliable when slamming the throttle open. My son gets a very low idle with his SC 120 too but I haven't tached it yet.
-------------
We need more posts like yours and others that tell of their low nitro experiences.
It is easy to join a club as a newbie and then to do what the others do. That is how we learn. However, if one is a sport flyer with no interest in hovering or unlimited vertical, it is a waste of money and needlessly shortening an engine's useful life to run 15% or more nitro. I'm talking in terms of a global "We". In the US, presently there isn't a whole lot of difference in the price of fuel with varying amounts of nitro. Elsewhere in the world, it is the way it used to be here. Even a little nitro (5%) can be quite expensive.
And for the record, I have several cases of 5% nitro, 15% nitro and one case of 30% nitro in the garage. So I'm not a teetotaler when it comes to nitro myself. I would have some FAI (0% nitro), but no one carries it locally. Besides, I confess to liking 5% nitro the best.
09-18-2006, 12:26 PM
#10
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Thread Starter
RE: 120AX with 0% Nitro
Right now it's been 3 weeks running my TT 91FS with no nitro and 18% castor oil, it idles quite fine with a MAS 14x6, runs around 10K RPM and hovers my +8lb seagull Extra. The high speed needle is a little critical though, 2 clicks can be a difference between lean and rich and the engine runs a little hotter, specially in this HOT climate, but not a single deadstick.
Well, actually I had a deadstick, but it was because the backpressure nipple came off, but I was in good position and could land the plane just fine.
Fuel here can get SO expensive, over $40 USD for a gallon of 20/20 and you can't really buy nitro alone, only a couple of companies in this country sell it and the prices are ridiculously high, around $100USD for a gallon, and you can't buy less than 5 gallons [:@][:@][:@][:@]
So I decided to use home brewed FAI as much as I can and as long as I can have a reliable idle and some power.
Well, actually I had a deadstick, but it was because the backpressure nipple came off, but I was in good position and could land the plane just fine.
Fuel here can get SO expensive, over $40 USD for a gallon of 20/20 and you can't really buy nitro alone, only a couple of companies in this country sell it and the prices are ridiculously high, around $100USD for a gallon, and you can't buy less than 5 gallons [:@][:@][:@][:@]
So I decided to use home brewed FAI as much as I can and as long as I can have a reliable idle and some power.
09-18-2006, 01:37 PM
#11
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RE: 120AX with 0% Nitro
ORIGINAL: joesabido
Right now it's been 3 weeks running my TT 91FS with no nitro and 18% castor oil, it idles quite fine with a MAS 14x6, runs around 10K RPM and hovers my +8lb seagull Extra. The high speed needle is a little critical though, 2 clicks can be a difference between lean and rich and the engine runs a little hotter, specially in this HOT climate, but not a single deadstick.
Well, actually I had a deadstick, but it was because the backpressure nipple came off, but I was in good position and could land the plane just fine.
Fuel here can get SO expensive, over $40 USD for a gallon of 20/20 and you can't really buy nitro alone, only a couple of companies in this country sell it and the prices are ridiculously high, around $100USD for a gallon, and you can't buy less than 5 gallons [:@][:@][:@][:@]
So I decided to use home brewed FAI as much as I can and as long as I can have a reliable idle and some power.
Right now it's been 3 weeks running my TT 91FS with no nitro and 18% castor oil, it idles quite fine with a MAS 14x6, runs around 10K RPM and hovers my +8lb seagull Extra. The high speed needle is a little critical though, 2 clicks can be a difference between lean and rich and the engine runs a little hotter, specially in this HOT climate, but not a single deadstick.
Well, actually I had a deadstick, but it was because the backpressure nipple came off, but I was in good position and could land the plane just fine.
Fuel here can get SO expensive, over $40 USD for a gallon of 20/20 and you can't really buy nitro alone, only a couple of companies in this country sell it and the prices are ridiculously high, around $100USD for a gallon, and you can't buy less than 5 gallons [:@][:@][:@][:@]
So I decided to use home brewed FAI as much as I can and as long as I can have a reliable idle and some power.
---------------
I am glad that your TT 91FS is running well on no nitro. I have yet to try that particular engine. I hope to remedy that soon. My TT.46 Pro was a fantastic engine.
I like experimenting with different fuels. Maybe I'll blend a gallon of alcohol/oil mix and see how it runs in the newly arrived ASP 1.80 ($250 USD from Peak Models!). I'll bet it runs just fine on 0% nitro. This engine is HUGE. It has been a while since I owned my Saito 1.80 engines, but I don't remember them being this large.
Do you fly with other modelers, Jose? Or do you fly alone? Just curious.
09-18-2006, 01:52 PM
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RE: 120AX with 0% Nitro
ORIGINAL: joesabido
Turk1, I believe this engine has only 1 shim. Is this a "last resort" to increase compression for zero nitro?
Thanks guys
Turk1, I believe this engine has only 1 shim. Is this a "last resort" to increase compression for zero nitro?
Thanks guys
09-18-2006, 01:59 PM
#13
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Thread Starter
RE: 120AX with 0% Nitro
Artisan,
This engine has been GREAT so far, it was a small pain in the butt while breaking in, but it never seems to stop developing power. When I used 10% nitro I used a MAS 14x8 prop and it handled it just fine, when I went to 0% nitro it would take too much time to spool up with that huge prop, so I just went 2 inches down on pitch to a MAS 14x6 and it has been great. Really moves that Extra, and fuel economy has just improved, I fly with a 8oz tank for 10 or 12 minutes [sm=thumbs_up.gif]
Ohh I fly with a bunch of dudes
Jose, Luis, Polo, Manuel, Roger, Rafael, Marco.. [sm=72_72.gif].. Pedro, Julio, Gonzalo, Francisco, Russell, Alberto, Carlos, Alejandro... and some other guys whose names I can't seem to remember 
This engine has been GREAT so far, it was a small pain in the butt while breaking in, but it never seems to stop developing power. When I used 10% nitro I used a MAS 14x8 prop and it handled it just fine, when I went to 0% nitro it would take too much time to spool up with that huge prop, so I just went 2 inches down on pitch to a MAS 14x6 and it has been great. Really moves that Extra, and fuel economy has just improved, I fly with a 8oz tank for 10 or 12 minutes [sm=thumbs_up.gif]
Ohh I fly with a bunch of dudes
Jose, Luis, Polo, Manuel, Roger, Rafael, Marco.. [sm=72_72.gif].. Pedro, Julio, Gonzalo, Francisco, Russell, Alberto, Carlos, Alejandro... and some other guys whose names I can't seem to remember
09-18-2006, 03:29 PM
#14
Senior Member
RE: 120AX with 0% Nitro
Artisan. I really hope you will make a thread on that asp 180 when you have run it some as I really want one of those myself. I know nothing about it so far.
09-18-2006, 04:19 PM
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RE: 120AX with 0% Nitro
I agree with Artisan about hearing about no nitro experiences. I run 15% in my 120 ax because Hobby Communists puts this blend on sale during a major holiday and I will just grab a few cases. One of my favs are Super Tigre engines which were built on the no nitro for the Euopean use; the nitro helps combustion but compression works around that.
09-18-2006, 04:39 PM
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RE: 120AX with 0% Nitro
ORIGINAL: joesabido
Right now it's been 3 weeks running my TT 91FS with no nitro and 18% castor oil, it idles quite fine with a MAS 14x6, runs around 10K RPM and hovers my +8lb seagull Extra. The high speed needle is a little critical though, 2 clicks can be a difference between lean and rich and the engine runs a little hotter, specially in this HOT climate, but not a single deadstick.
Well, actually I had a deadstick, but it was because the backpressure nipple came off, but I was in good position and could land the plane just fine.
Fuel here can get SO expensive, over $40 USD for a gallon of 20/20 and you can't really buy nitro alone, only a couple of companies in this country sell it and the prices are ridiculously high, around $100USD for a gallon, and you can't buy less than 5 gallons [:@][:@][:@][:@]
So I decided to use home brewed FAI as much as I can and as long as I can have a reliable idle and some power.
Right now it's been 3 weeks running my TT 91FS with no nitro and 18% castor oil, it idles quite fine with a MAS 14x6, runs around 10K RPM and hovers my +8lb seagull Extra. The high speed needle is a little critical though, 2 clicks can be a difference between lean and rich and the engine runs a little hotter, specially in this HOT climate, but not a single deadstick.
Well, actually I had a deadstick, but it was because the backpressure nipple came off, but I was in good position and could land the plane just fine.
Fuel here can get SO expensive, over $40 USD for a gallon of 20/20 and you can't really buy nitro alone, only a couple of companies in this country sell it and the prices are ridiculously high, around $100USD for a gallon, and you can't buy less than 5 gallons [:@][:@][:@][:@]
So I decided to use home brewed FAI as much as I can and as long as I can have a reliable idle and some power.
If you dont mind you can add 2-5% gas and acetone in your fuel as they seem to help a little bit for easier starts, and lower idle. I tried 5% gas and 5% acetone last winter and it gave my Saito 180 very low and reliable idle with 0% nitro. It works atleast for the cold weather flying but I am not sure if it is good or not for your engine/climate. Maybe worth trying? The engine will run hotter so make sure it runs slightly rich. Silicone tubings gets slightly stiffer because of these additives and I would not use this fuel in pumped engines, one of the reasons why I run 10% nitro instead.
09-18-2006, 04:47 PM
#17
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RE: 120AX with 0% Nitro
ORIGINAL: asmund
Artisan. I really hope you will make a thread on that asp 180 when you have run it some as I really want one of those myself. I know nothing about it so far.
Artisan. I really hope you will make a thread on that asp 180 when you have run it some as I really want one of those myself. I know nothing about it so far.
---------------
Don't hold your breath, Amigo.
It takes me a long while to get around to doing things these days. Poor circulation in the lower legs and feet will slow you down a bit. Diabetes.
I'm not looking for sympathy. I'm just explaining why things don't get done as quickly as they used to. I used to be like Hobbsy and was always running engines on the test bench and recording data, in addition to flying a lot. Those days are gone for me, but not by choice. The computer gets most of my time these days.
The ASP 1.80 arrived today and it is beautiful. Frankly, I wasn't expecting it to look and feel as nice as it is. Now to get it mounted on the test bench to begin the break-in procedure. I'm slow, but I get there - eventually. <G>
