AussieHoppy

Wow, thanks so much guys for all the input, very much appreciated, I would have thought everyone would have long departed from here, glad you guys are still around
Dammit Janet! I was really hoping to avoid splitting the front half, given the partial nightmares I've read early on, but I do want to do this right so BJ, what did you use for replacement gaskets? I know I'll mess mine up lol I saw some pics of yours I think from couple years ago where you drilled/plugged the front case, brilliant idea, and I'll follow your lead when I do strip mine.
I wasn't planning on going the Keleo route, I'd prefer to have pipes but I'm not setup for brazing so Keleo might be the easier solution, albeit the most difficult to install/remove... I've read the cursing heh heh

SrTele, thanks for your advice on cdi/glow fuel, I'm all but convinced of going cdi, but still undecided on glow or gas.
Losing a little power doesn't concern me because the plane destined for it will almost be overpwered with this donk anyway.
The cost of glow fuels put me off, as does the mess.
Running hotter doesn't concern me unless it is detrimental to engine life longevity. Some engines are seemingly unaffected running hotter. Some are affected. Does anyone know first hand if running this 400 on gas really is detrimental? Morris Motors have a complete conversion kit for gas, I'd be surprised if they offered this option if it lead to long term problems, especially for the price they ask... I think CH do as well? I'd love to hear from someone who has run theirs on gas for a while...

Please do post your FR5/7 parts please Chorner, I may well follow your lead while mine is in bits
I just listened to your vids, the difference sounded like night & day! Most impressive!

Thanks again guys, you have no idea how relieved I am all you chaps are still here!
What ever happened to Kmot?

BJ64

Glad you got something out of the last few convo's amonst us, AH.

And hey, Tele - wasn't having a shot at you. I just recall from previous back-and-forths that you like to run CDI, but retain the usage of Glow fuel (for more power and/or cooling). I can see why guys like to run "gas" - glow fuel can be bloody greasy on the fuselage etc (hence "slimers")

You blokes have got me all enthused to go run my engine up again...and get start to get stuck-in to building my TF FW190 (which has sadly sat neglected in it's BIG box for over 2 years now).

I think I need to have some sort of battle-plan to get my RC "shed" operational again - maybe pick one build..and see it to completion? Then go the next one.... etc etc etc

BJ

BJ64

PS - Aussie - no, I didn't have any replacement gaskets for the ones I tore trying to get the nose-cone off.

I kinda fudged it all back together again - and from what I can see, no leaks... (yet?)

LoL

BJ

AussieHoppy

Gowawn BJ, I dare ya- dust off the 400 and give 'er a burl and while you're tinkering you could be assembling the 190... I dare ya!
Slightly off topic, a mate of mine and I are working on an experiment at the moment, 2200mm hand laid all fibreglass razorback P47, 2-3 months away from maiden but I'm powering mine with a DA85 the reason I mention this is because my plate is full of projects too, fpv has been left behind a tad lol

Slightly back on topic, I'm going to email some enquiries on the gas option.

Does anyone have advice on the JEN collector ring exhaust? I like the slip-on concept utilizing the stock headers, 19mm ring is nice but small diameter twin outlets, I wonder what it would sound like with twin 19mm outlets...

Fudged the gaskets, huh? Good work! That's the bush mechanic's way

I've also been reading about the crankcase vent/drain and the "to plug or not to plug" debate. It seemed the result was not to plug it while running- is this correct? If this was the case, I was thinking perhaps running the drain tube back up behind the firewall to approx crank/centreline then run back through the fuse to exit underneath at the tail, this way some lube might remain in the crank enough to be flung around inside some, but still able to drain excess given planes aren't flying level for long (especially when I'm at the sticks)... and the excess sticky stuff isn't trailing the length of the fuselage... just thinking out loud at the moment...

Is there anywhere on this planet that stocks spares for this thing? I've googled around but haven't found anything other than the occassional head or piston. Where would one obtain gaskets, cams etc? I don't wish to hex myself just yet but it would be nice to know parts can be had, before I start tearing mine down.
I did read around page 70 someone mentioned they'd flown in excess of 90 ten minute flights with their 400, so there is hope...

BJ64

Hmmm...

When you say '400' - you are referring to the FS400, right? Not a Moki 400 (cc) radial, which I would soooooooo LOVE to get my hands on.

Re the 'spare parts' situation, I'll dig through my emails to see who I bought my replacement cam gears/lobes from in the UK. They weren't cheap, and the postage was a tad on the rude side too. Oh...the things we do to play with all things RC.

Re the Keleo collector ring v's a JEN ring - no idea regarding the JEN ring...but I had heaps of trouble initially trying to attach my Keleo ring. A bit of back and forth emails with the guy from Keleo, we got it sorted pretty quick - you basically have to do each cylinder's manifold step by step - advance a little futher.. and go again - each cylinder at a time... patiently tapping with a plastic hammer and gently coaxing the bends etc. until it finally all falls into place and she just bayonet clicks into pozzie, then you carefully drop the captive exhaust nuts onto their threads and gently tighten her down (it's been a few years now since I did this, so if I sound a bit vague, I am).

Oh... and nothing wrong with the good ole 'bush mechanic', hey? A smear of grease one way.. a touch of silastic... a belt with a hammer when you've got the sh-its... and a cold beer when warranted

BJ

tim750r

This is one I look after fitted with the Just Engines ring - the exhaust stubs slide in and then the joint is covered with a short piece of silcone tube. It does leak a bit but its very easy to fit. If I'm honest, I'd say its not quite as deeply throaty as the Keleo ring, but the fly-bys starting around 3 minutes into the video give a reasonable idea how it sounds in the air - still sounds good to me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-TNNa_X6RLo

BJ64

Just had a quick look around...and came across this - http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/glow...-74-print.html

Same thread...yonks ago. "Sanye" engines is the keyword here.

I'll keep digging around through my PayPal purchases to see whereabouts in the UK I got my spare parts from.

Hopefully, I find the seller - and the parts (any/all) are still available. Not to put too a negative spin on things, HobbyKing et al have been known to be flavour-of-the-month... then *boom* - can't find diddly-squat anywhere. Like my much beloved ME109 'pylon racer'. Bought 2 of everything - but not the exceptionally cheap airframe. Man, that thing was the ducks nuts. Unfortunately, I stoved it in vertical at around 190 clicks. Now I still have all the duplicated running gear (and the tricks I learned along the way to get it all to fit)... but no darn airframe to fit it into.

Jeez.. I love that plane.

Vid - nervous maiden, hack at the sticks, can pretty crappy vid from back then.. but crikey, it had some poke

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TmEMwed_izw


BJ

BJ64

What size Corsair is that, Tim?

Looks good in the air

Prop just about on the limit re breaking the sound barrier?

BJ

tim750r

And here's my 'take' on the whole nipple thing and whether it should be blocked or open. This is just my opinion, and what works for me, and how I arrived at my conclusions - not looking to start any argument lol!

I believe the engine internals are only lubricated by 'blow-by' past the piston rings. This is how most four stroke model glow engines are lubricated, as the raw fuel never enters the crankcase (as it does in most 2 stroke model glow engines).

If you block the nipple, the pressure from blow-by builds up in the crankcase and this allows LESS fresh lubrication to be blown past the piston rings. Eventually, the pressure will be enough to push oil through the front bearing shield, and the pushrod tubes where they are not particularly well sealed to the crankcase. I think some people believe this is a good thing as it shows some lubrication is getting through.

However, if you leave the nipple open while running, you allow the crankcase to breathe and the blow-by is constantly supplying fresh lubrication at the intended rate. Old lubrication is expelled through the nipple whilst running - just as it does in the majority of model four stroke engines.

And this is where I think all the confusion comes from - again, these are just my own deductions...

OS produced a flat-four called the Pegasus. Its crankcase was designed with both a breather nipple AND a separate drain nipple. While running, you blocked the drain and left the breather open.

When OS then produced the 5 Cyl Sirius, it only had one nipple, but it appears they copy / pasted the wrong part of the instructions, so calling it a drain. Then, Sanye mostly copied the engine, and the instructions...

The current OS FR-7 correctly calls it a breather and tells you to fit a small length of tubing to "conduct away the small amount of oil that escapes" but then shows a plug in the end. If you read further, it suggest at the end of the flight, you drain any excess oil, then inject after-run. I would definitely then want to plug it up while its not running to keep the after-run inside.

Both the ASP400 engines I've looked after run with the nipple open. The tube is kept short and compared with all the oil that comes out of the exhaust, will probably add little extra to the gunge on the fuselage.

Happy flying :-)

tim750r

That is the (MK 1) Blackhorse 50cc Corsair which came out a shade over 21lbs without fuel.

Jon (Carousel?) who used to contribute to this thread always said 'keep the revs up' on this engine, so thats a Xoar WWII series 20X8 which gets to about 7400RPM on the ground if I remember. We did also try a 20x10 Beila on it, but with marginal cooling, it was a bit much for it on a hot day and the engine would fade after a few minutes. Baffling would almost certainly help, but it flies pretty well on the 20X8 anyway

Luckily you can hear from the traffic noise in the video that we don't currently have a noise problem

BJ64

I have always left my 'nipple' open - and a crapload of oil comes out of it (running Glow fuel).

Like you, I have read where some folks endorse blocking that outlet in the hope of throwing more 'lube' front-side.

IMHO, the ASP/Magnum 400 has a bit of design flaw.

I can't remember the name, but there was a French bloke who produced a different inlet manifold - one that would allow some fuel/air into the bottom end. Never got around to buying/trying one due to the relative dollar benefit.

I just went with the nose-cone drill/tap hole/put in plug method - take the plug out at the end of each run, and give the front end a good dose of WD40. Seems to work fine so far on bench runs - ain't blown it up since the first incident.

Time will tell...

BJ

tim750r

BJ, you must be talking about the Rogeau Intake Manifold?

That changes things quite a bit as it appers that the crankcase becomes part of the inlet circuit. If the nipple was left open in this case, you would have a vacuum leak of course and probably never be able to tune the main needle rich enough.

I wonder if the results with his manifold were variable from engine to engine, considering that the engine isn't designed to be particularly well sealed? I'm pretty sure there are no rocker cover gaskets for instance.

I would imagine a lot of any model engine's 'health' will be determined by the first few minutes of running, and in that respect, I would never trust the factory to lube it properly, even if it said OS or Saito on the box...

BJ64

True dat, Tim.

I'm working in Aircraft Electrical Maintenance at the moment, and you'd have to see some of the "factory" stuff that comes out these days to believe it.... Seriously.

"Shonky" is a word that springs to mind - but, of course, I can't say that...

BJ

AussieHoppy

Guys, I had sent an email to CH Ignitions enquiring about gas conversion, this is Adrian's reply... not sure what to make of it... nor am I at all warm and fuzzy in the idea of sending my brand new radial to someone I don't know from a bar of proverbial soap...
I thought I'd email him because if I understand it, Morris Minor had started with CDI using CH Ignition gear (?) and looking on CH's site seems he has some gas conversion kits for other engines, I must admit I wasn't expecting this. He may be 100% legit, but straight up suggesting I send my radial to him??



[[From: Adrian Ciulei <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, 18 August 2016, 23:20
Subject: Re: Ninja Form Submission


Hi Mark,

I make the conversion kits, I am testing this week and Idea for gas conversion.
Best thing will be to send me the engine.


Adrian


On Thu, Aug 18, 2016 at 6:44 AM, Website Submission wrote:

[TABLE]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Hi AdrianI have just bought an ASP 400 radial, apparently approximately 2 years old.
I am keen to convert to spark ignition.
Also I am interested in converting to gas.
Do you sell any gas conversion kits for the ASP 400?
And do you know if the significant increase in engine temperatures is detrimental to the lifespan of a gas converted engine?
Kind regards
Mark]]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

AussieHoppy

BJ

When I say "400", I do mean our illustrious ASP 400... I can only dream of a Moki 400, those things are just love forged into metal. On my blog I have a youtube vid of a P47 Razor with Moki 400, Oh. My. Gawd. Sex with wings.

That's why I'm not so keen on the Keleo, too much bother, considering this engine seems to be a maintenance beast. I've read many posts of guys being frustated with them, last thing I'd need is stripping threads sooner or late... I'm good at things like that!

Please don't bust a valve looking through your paypal from some time ago, much appreciated but sounds painful! I'll follow your lead and do some more googling on Sanye, great suggestion.

Bush mechanic: grease, selastic, hammer. You forgot the most important item. Fencing wire.

You suirt a bunch of WD40 in your front plug? I wasn't thinking along those lines but makes it simple I was thinking of an after day's run ritual consisting of flooding the internals with ATF or whatever through your front case plug then flipping the plane on it's nose to get the oil everywhere internally, then sit her back down and let the excess freely drain out. Call me paranoid...

Speaking of fast German warbirds... our first experimental all fibreglass plane is a 2000mm P40, my mate maidened it recently with a Tacon 160 on 12 cell. It's now being repowered with IC. Last week he was bored. Now his 1600mm Starmax FW190 foamie is repowered 160/12S. Goes like a scalded cat. Haven't ventured over half throttle. Absolutely pointless? Absolutely. But fun!
That 190 of yours is insane!

Tim

Thanks for the JEN/F4U vid, and yes it clearly illustrates the sound isn't any where near as throatie as the Keleo. I wonder though if the two Pitts style exhaust pipes were removed and 19mm exhausts fitted, if the sound would be more akin to Keleo's?

I also wonder if these radials would benefit from Pegasus style breather & drain? I'll probably never own another radial, tying up this much money attached to the pointy end that can be destroyed by an rc glitch in a heartbeat, s I'm probably over thinking things. Paranoid lol
Personally I do believe a crank case does need to be vented, when I get to the installation stage I might try the vent tube rising up to crank centreline, might help retain a little more but still breathing so excess can easily be pushed out. Probably right in that the amount that drips out of the drain is nothing compared to the exhaust spray.

So, has anyone performed a simple gas conversion? Like swapping the carb for an OS or something? I found the micro fuel pump Morris Mini's use. I'm really tempted to run it in on glow, then try CDI/ glow fuel, then try gas. Once installed in the plane I'd much much prefer to be on gas, if I practicably can.

By the way Tim, pleasantly surprised how well this ASP 400 pulls your F4U around

chorner

Hey guys,

Here's my list of OS part #'s I've used to improve the engine:

47164000 FR7-420 Cam Follower
47005500 FR5-300 Link pin Retainer
47105400 Link Pins
45061202 Tappet Adjusting Screw
45361100 Rocker Arm - you can get away with not using these, as the tappet adjusting screw sets work with the stock rocker arms

Remember: the FR5 and FR7 engines all share parts. Meaning, this ASP 400 also can use parts. Keep in mind again, that the stroke and cylinder capacity are different so you can't replace some of those components without replacing the whole cylinder head, all the way down to the master rod. It's pretty easy to play around once you cross-reference manuals!

Of course, I also replaced all bearings with high quality bearings (you can find the list on this thread) and for corrosion prevention I've drilled a hole in the front cover over the timing gears etc. to drop lube/corrision inhibiters into.

Find an OS FS90 carb, or FS70 carb. May be hard to get a hold of the older non "FSII" carbs, so you may have to adapt the carb to the throat on the ASP backplate.

... with these changes alone, it's really changed the engine. Much better. I may also go back and use the exhaust valve assemblies as the stock ones tend to rust out.

chorner

Aussie,

Adrian is legitimate and a good guy. I personally built his new webstore through my development company (though I didn't insert his products, or write any of his text - the store oganization & running is 100% up to him which quite honestly could use some work! ha ha) so I've been working with him for a while now, and had originally been his customer. I sent my first Evolution 7-77 radial to him to install the CDI system on, because he had not yet developed what he's calling the "bolt on" version. I did not like the idea of JB welding an adaptor to the front of the 7-77 radial. Each successive conversion, I've done it myself as I personally don't like the idea of sending my engines out for someone else to run either. I'm very particular how it's handled, what fuel goes through it, how it's run etc.

AFAIK, unless there's not been a conversion done on the engine previously with parts available, I would rather opt to install the parts myself 10/10 times. But that's just me. Others may not be comfortable setting up timing accurrately, and installing the parts properly. You'll need a timing kit and a piston stopper etc. and from experience, you have to be careful not to reverse the polarity on the timing buzzer Did this once and fried the timing sensor. Oops! This is where sending the engine to Adrian can ensure you have a 100% working engine returned to you. If you do decide to send it in to him, ask him when you'll get it back and get a firm date. Otherwise, there are already gas convertions available... you just need to use a fuel pump as you will no longer have enough fuel draw from the carb for gas. It will lean out on you in the air and overheat, so don't do it without.

AussieHoppy

BJ...
Aprox halfway through this thread you were splitting the front of the motor, you had a bunch of challenges and then you had your "a-ha" moment... could you let me know please how you ended up splitting it?

Chorner...
Thanks for listing the spares, I'll be soucing most of them soon.
Thanks also for clarifying Adrian, much appreciated.
I'm still not so keen on sending my new motor half way around the world, still pursuing a home brew gas conversion.
To that end, I've been looking further into doing it myself, not unlike yourself. If Adrian had an existing conversion I would certainly have considered it to purchase and install myself.
I found a youtube video of a guy who did a home conversion 5 years ago, I'm currently trying to track him down, after the gas conversion he then flew it on his Stearman for a while. He had made his own magnet/sensor ring and used 5 x RCExcel CDI units where I'll cheat and buy either CH or Morris.
Here's a bit of cut n paste from the comments:
~5 x 1/4-32 spark plugs
~28 degrees BTDC
~No reduction in compression (which surprised me)
~Either stock glow carb or OS 70 carb (I'm guessing the FSII cab you mentioned above and you are correct- I've been googling around and can't find the older carb lol)
~Carby insulator (no idea on which insulator was used)
~100ml oil ~ 900mm 98 octane pump juice
Morris Mini's have a full Walbro carb conversion kit with an electric micro fuel pressure pump for 190 British pounds, but being adapted down to the stock inlet throat size (I'm assuming) I'm wondering if there's any real benefit, other than perhaps easier tuning.
If I were to experiment with stock or OS carb, I'd already found Morris Mini use a TCS fuel pump that I should be able to source seperately if need be for approx 60 British pounds.
I haven't been able to source any other conversion kits, and the one thing I'd like still like to know is if there is any long term detriment to this engine if ran on gas only (with after-run oiling procedure)
I am leaning toward the JEN collector, but I will definitely have larger 19mm Pitts exhausts fitted, it needs volume!
Oh yes, and a timing kit with piston stopper

I'd appreciate any comments and advice

BJ64

I think in the end with a bloody hammer - hence the ripped seals.

Will go through my posts to see..

BJ

BJ64

From memory.. AH.. I think I did the plastic hammer/screwdriver thing until I saw that i wrecked a seal or three.

From there, I'm a bit foggy (goes with the age thing, huh?)... but I'm sure I stumbled across some nut/washer thing.. where you just keep turning a coupla hexies...and the whole lot just drops off the front, in the end. Mate, it's been a LOOONGG time and a lotta beers since then...

BJ

BJ64

PS Aussie.. I'm sure I've posted how I did it with the recommendations of others somewhere a long time ago in his same thread..

BJ

chorner

To get the case apart guys it's easy. Disconnect all the pistons from the master rod, and of course all the cylinder heads. Then put a piece of wood on the end of the crank shaft inside the motor and give it a tap. The whole front nose will come off easy Even easier if you heat up the front end a bit first.

AussieHoppy

Thanks ever so guys, enough information for me to go forth.
Hopefully I'll have the 65cc single pot grafted onto the front of my Trojan this weekend, with that out of the way I'll have enough bench space to start the radial disassembly....

AussieHoppy

I was just digging around my old engine drawers, thought I'd got rid of all my old glow engines but just discovered an old OS FS80, but the carb looks smaller than the stock ASP carb

Kmot

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Nice to see this thread still alive.