BJ64

What can I say?

I am TOTALLY stoked with my engine.

Finally got around to starting it up for the first time just now.

2 1/2 turns on the needle, 1/3 throttle, and hit the starter.

*Pop* splutter splutter... and she was away, gurgling that wonderful lumpy radial sound.

I must say, it's a lot quieter than I thought it would be (just running the stock short pipes for now - no collector ring yet).

Just running in on small tanks at the moment - then I'll have a good look-see how everything is.

So far... happy happy happy

BJ

jaav

I do miss the sound..The flat twin isnt the same.... looking at the OS rotary 40...nice sound.

BJ64

What exactly happened to your donk, Jaav?

BJ

Kmot

My Feedback: (24)

Right. But this is not a thread about Saito's.

If you want an ASP radial, and need someone to work on it for you, there are options out there.

jaav

ask the Revrend.

Check out a few pages back

BJ64

Flicked back to around page 38 and followed it through to 48 ... couldn't find it. Probably closer to home?

As an aside, what would give the best sound from a collector ring?

Skinny ring, big exhaust/s - or fat ring, skinny exhaust/s?

Or maybe just 'fat' all round?

I like the idea of the exhausts being modded so that they come out at around cylinder 2/4 height, but after the amount of oil that I saw spewing out after a couple of tankfuls of fuel, I kinda think that you'd still need some sort of sump-plug at the bottom (ground) end of the collector - to avoid the whole thing from clagging up after shutdown...

BJ

jaav

This the start with the Rev.

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_67...59/key_/tm.htm[]

SrTelemaster150

After years of working on the engines British bikes, building stroker Big Twins, SB Chevies & Gen III Crysler Hemis, I am capable of doing my own work thank you.

Point is, when I buy a NEW engine I shouldn't have to take a gamble & parts availability other than bearings & top end, is dicey @ best.

It will cost me about $850 to get a 400R5 in hand. I haven't ruled it out yet, but the odds don't seem all that favorable as far as getting a good engine.

BTW, who is Oliver?

BJ64

Didn't realize that this thread was a pissing contest, SrT.

Come on, Man - it's an FS400AR thread. For those of us who play with this donk, hey?

There's better (and probably worse) engines out there. Some way beyond the budget of some of the punters in here.

Mate, I went through the same heated exchanges in the JetJoe thread with Turbines.

Ok... there might be better junk out there. And you may be well more qualified than some people in here (erm... that would be me, for sure).

But seriously, when it's all said and done - buy one. Have fun. Or buy something different, and bag them on their thread.

Maybe show a bit of respect for people like Olivier too. Just sayin. The dude has put something back for the enthusiasts of this motor.

The Rev, Caro & Tom have put a lot of work into getting these things running more reliably. Olivier is machining parts for better performance. It's a Hobby - that's what we do. Share. Learn. Enjoy.

Peace-out, hey Bro?

BJ

retransit

My Feedback: (18)

Kmot is referring to Olivier Rogeau.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IzOqBrbWPEA

Bob

Kmot

My Feedback: (24)

Kinda sends a chill up the spine the first time, eh?

I can totally relate to the 'happy-happy' feeling the first time I lit up my FS400. Never ever thought I would own a radial and to have one and hear it running in my backyard was just so awesome.

As for the collector ring, I have a suspicion that a large diameter ring would give a deeper sound. Note the Moki radial's very disctinctive sound compared to all other model radials. It also has the fattest diameter pipe of all the current ring exhausts.

I am myself, going to experiment one day with making another collector ring using 3/4" tube versus the 1/2" tube I already made.

As for the outlet, I think it should be the same diameter as the ring part.

Kmot

My Feedback: (24)

Olivier Rogeau is the worlds best authority on the FS400 radial engine (Followed closely by Reverend) amongst many other model engines as well as being a maestro on Walbro carbs, ignition conversions, and etc. He has an enormous credentials list.

He has recently decided to start a business in France as a model engine service center because France has none and has a need for one.

With international parcel delivery being a common tool anyone can use, it is quite conceivable to me that if someone wanted an expert to work on their FS400 than it would be an easy thing to do to just pack it up and send it off to Olivier.

SrTelemaster150

Isn't he the guy that makes the crankcase intake manifold for the FS400AR-5?

How is the power output of that manifold compared to the stock unit?

blw

My Feedback: (3)

Easy there, BJ. SrT was only expressing the same opinion a lot of people have if they remember their own posts about a year ago on this engine. It's okay to have an opinion. SrT's critique and comparisons may turn out to be valuable advice one day.

Carosel43

For the money i dont think the quality is as good as it could be. there are other powerplants of this power and superior quality available from a number of engine mfrs. However, this is a fully operational 5 cylinder radial engine that for many is the dogs whatsit and their pride and joy. I must say that when my engine is working i love it to bits, i love that it needs some love and respect and that if you run at low power too long in flight the pots cool off and start to misfire making CHTmanagement am important skill. I love the sound, i love the idea of all those little bits wiggling and spinning inside and the engine is loved by all my clubmates. However, given my love for the engine the failure rateis a something that pushes my limits when it comes to frustration. For example lat time i flew i was overjoyed that it started with ease and tuned up fine, it flew well and then....started making a noise that could suggest bearing failure....ugh.

its a love hate thing with my radial

BJ64

Crickey!

Did you try to dissolve the thing before it got to him? LoL

Man, whatever that gear was that you tried to 'clean' it with wanted to keep on cleaning until there was nothing left

I saw the pics of the box of bits, but I didn't read what the initial failure was due to (it's probably there somewhere and numbnutz here glossed over it).

Love your 'flying spot' up there in the NW

The beauty there is if your flying day goes belly-up, you can just waltz down to the water and grab a spare 500kg or so of fish to bring home for dinner

BJ

BJ64

Yeh mate - sweaty palms, trying to keep the self-doubt in check re so many things. The whole box'n'dice.

But it was worth it for the "Yesssssss!!!" moment when it fired first-up and went into that beautiful da-drrrt da-drrrt da-drrrt lumpy idle.

Must go downstairs and run another small tank of fuel

BJ

Heli-NuBee

Can anyone with direct experience tell me how the Saito 450 R3 engine compares with the ASP 400 radial engine?

Thanks, your input is much appreciated.

Heli-NuBee (AKA Roger the radial rabbit)

SrTelemaster150

There aren't a lot of radials in this displacement & physical size/weight range.

I'm saving up for a powerplant for my TF Fw 190 A3 ARF.

The choice is narrowed down to the ASP FS400AR or the Saito 450R3. I'm not interested in a 7 cylinder radial.

Either would be runing CDI W/methanol & I am probably going to increase the compression ratio to the 13-14:1 range. I'm pretty schooled on modifying the Saitos & I have been studying the geometry of the ASP & think I have seen a way to easily boost CR W/some simple machine work.

I know the Saito will stand up to a healthy CR boost. Question is, will the ASP?

So far I have asked about the performance gains/losses W/ the Rogeau manifold on more than 1 occasion & have never received a reply.

Does the Rogeau manifold perform as well or better (from a power standpoint) than the stock manifold? I understand that the primary purpose is to promote crankcase breathing/oiling, but is that at the expense of performance?

SrTelemaster150

The Saito 450R3 responds very favorably to (C&H) CDI conversion & puts out over 6HP when running 15% methanol/nitro W/CDI.

Nobody has tried that W/the ASP FS400AR that I am aware of. I was thinking about it, but these quality issues have me re-thinking.

The big difference?

Saito = made in Japan, the ASP = made in China. Big difference in quality control.

Kmot

My Feedback: (24)

1) Yes.

2) On my test stand, seems the same. I have no hard data, only empirical.

SrTelemaster150

How about user friendliness? Starting, idle, transition, etc?

BJ64

Speaking of exhaust/collector rings, was that your build I stumbled across somewhere?

Two u-shaped kinda pieces of copper tubing - from which a half-circle was then manufactured from each, then joined via a stepped-flair on each tube?

If so, how do you bend the tube to produce the U sections? I have an oxy/acetylene, so heat is no problem.

I'm guessing you used some sort of pipe or something of the correct diameter to use as a template to bend the tube around. What diam would you recommend to suit the ASP 400?

And joining the tubes and exhaust extensions onto the tube - silver-solder...bronze braize... what works best?

I also notice that some of the manufactured collectors have the exhaust entensions coming off the collector ring at an angle rather than 90-deg to it. Is that something to do with performance (e.g. to generate some kind of exhaust swirl inside the collector ring in a particular direction?).

Lots of questions, I know. Sorry. Just keen to get my head around building my own collector ring.

One with the deepest note

BJ

Carosel43

Nubee - I have the saito 450 and on the same fuel and plugs as the asp it is more powerful. useful output is around 4.5hp (7000rpm 22x8 Menz wood prop on 5% nitro fuel). This is a good step up from the 400 and the engine is better than the 400 in many ways but has some issues. The fuel distribution to the cylinders is not even and this causes a few problems with tuning, the engine is also very sensative to tank position and needs exhaust pressure to run correctly. The engine is alsolarger physically and heavier than the 400.

I forget which page it is but i did some back to back comparisons between the two engines and gave the rpm details on the thread. i will try and find the page later when i have more time.

The information above relates to both engines in standard configuration without mods.

Kmot

My Feedback: (24)

I have run my engine on a test stand on two different occasions so far with the new manifold. I found that the pre-existing carb needle settings were no longer valid with the new manifold so both times I ran the engine was really just to tune the carb. Once I got it close I found the engine started, transitioned, and idled the same as it always did.

I am not sure, would need to ask Olivier Rogeau directly, but I think the focus of his intake manifold is not to 'supercharge' the performance of this engine but instead to increase the reliability and long term usefulness by virtue of the fact it improves the internal lubrication of all parts and reduces the tendency for the bearings to rust. I would have to find my notes and look through them again but IIRC he also said it improves fuel economy. It also allows the oil content of the fuel to be reduced to 7%.