First time engine start
12-18-2009, 11:05 PM
#1
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First time engine start
Hey all,
I'm new to the hobby and have recently finished building my first kit. It's a Goldberg Protege .40 Trainer.
I was just wondering, my engine instruction manual tells me to spin the prop counter clokcwise while starting.However, when doing this ny engine spews fuel out the carb, in mass quantities. Can anyone help? Is it possible that the instruction manual was wrong? I did find quite a few typos in the manual itself. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Ps. this is a brand new engine, first time being started.
wayne
I'm new to the hobby and have recently finished building my first kit. It's a Goldberg Protege .40 Trainer.
I was just wondering, my engine instruction manual tells me to spin the prop counter clokcwise while starting.However, when doing this ny engine spews fuel out the carb, in mass quantities. Can anyone help? Is it possible that the instruction manual was wrong? I did find quite a few typos in the manual itself. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Ps. this is a brand new engine, first time being started.
wayne
12-19-2009, 12:40 AM
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RE: First time engine start
are you trying to hand start it? or are you useing a starter? do you have the glow starter attached? does the plug work (unscrew it and test it on your glow ignitor)?
how cold is it outside? engines (espically new ones) do not like starting in the freezing cold. one thing to do would be to heat it up with a heat gun/small torch (dont get it to hot) and try to start it soon after
try starting with the carb 1/3 open
how cold is it outside? engines (espically new ones) do not like starting in the freezing cold. one thing to do would be to heat it up with a heat gun/small torch (dont get it to hot) and try to start it soon after
try starting with the carb 1/3 open
12-19-2009, 01:27 AM
#4
RE: First time engine start
Wayne,
W8eye is right, of course. Unusual for him, tho, his terse comment isn't a lot of help.
I, for one, would like to know how you have the engine mounted for initial running. ...And incidentally which engine it is. I don't fly RC, so don't know if the Protege.40 Trainer is a very-ready-to-fly/almost-ready-to-fly type with the engine either mounted, or ready to drop in per instructions. In the about 60 years I've been messing with model engines, I've come to a personal preference to "break-in" ALL engines on a test stand. More control if anything starts to go wrong; the stand takes care of holding the engine (in a model - YOU have to do that as well as all the engine-running things...) Not everybody agrees, so...
Well, let me guess that you want to "run-in" the engine before first flight, with it mounted in the model. The engine instructions almost certainly say something about not lettng the fuel level be much above the spraybar (the tube or fuel jet in the carb body where the fuel comes out.) If it IS above that with the plane sitting on its wheels or on a flight box cradle, well, all liquids pour downhill, don't they?
That could be how too much raw fuel got into the engine's innards... Solution is simple: Don't fill the tank as much, only enough that there's fuel UP TO but NOT ABOVE that spraybar level.
To clear a "flood" - the condition you describe - the best way is to rotate the model to where the cylinder head points down, below horizontal with the shaft, and rock the propeller a few times. The turn the prop until you feel resistance from the piston closing the exhaust port. Hold it at that resistance and rotate the model so the head is up at least a bit above horizontal with the prop shaft, and the muffler or exhaust stack is pointed some down. Ease the prop back to where the exhaust port opens. The excess you pushed up to the upper part of the engine, just before this step, is freed to pour out the exhaust into the muffler, or simply out of the engine if there is no muffler.
Repeat this a few times to be more sure. Then, set the model back in its engine-start position. Remove the glow plug. I presume you'll use an electric starter? Give it a few spins with that, to blow out the last of the excess raw fuel. Replace the glow plug. Many recommend this, simply. ...NOT bothering to rotate the engine, or model, as above. Bothe work, but I trust the earlier-described way...
Check to make sure the fuel level in the tank is not too high. Connect the battery to the plug, and pull the prop through (counter-clockwise IS the right direction!) a few times. HOLD the prop firmly, you may feel a "bump." If it "bumps" there's enough fuel in the cylinder to fire. That's why you are holding it firmly - it might kick forward and try to start, or kick backward and give you a nasty rap on the fingers.
You are also checking that there is not so much fuel in the engine that trying to start it will cause "hydraulic lock." Liquids are incompressible, for all practical purposes. If you hit the prop with a starter, or flip it through sharply enough to hope for a start, you might pump too much fuel into the combustion chamber. When the ports close, it has nowhere to go.
If there's more liquid up there than allows the piston to go through Top Dead Center, you are trying to compress incompressible liquid. Metal things will break! Pulling it through assures you that this won't (shouldn't, anyway) happen. If all is good, either touch the prop with that starter, or flip the prop sharply through Top Dead Center. Several flips without hearing any pops suggests you could "prime" the engine.
Assuming a muffler is mounted, and has a line to tap pressure from the muffler to pressurize fuel in the tank, putting a fingertip over the muffler outlet hole and flipping the prop can be enough prime. You should see the fuel driven by the muffler pressure, going to the carb nipple... Battery back on, try pulling through a few times, then flipping sharply.
If the carb needle settings are per the instructions, this should do it.
Oh, and by all means!, find somebody nearby who is succesfully flying models like your Protege Trainer. He should welcome another flying buddy to the fold, and be glad to share his learning experiences with you - saving you a lot of probable heartbreak, time, money and frustration.
Oh, and yes, all modern engines gain from at least a few brief runs before first flight. The engine's machined pieces get a chance to "polish-in" with each other, without the loads of flying. And - perhaps even more important - YOU get to be familiar and (more?) comfortable with getting the engine going.
W8eye is right, of course. Unusual for him, tho, his terse comment isn't a lot of help.
I, for one, would like to know how you have the engine mounted for initial running. ...And incidentally which engine it is. I don't fly RC, so don't know if the Protege.40 Trainer is a very-ready-to-fly/almost-ready-to-fly type with the engine either mounted, or ready to drop in per instructions. In the about 60 years I've been messing with model engines, I've come to a personal preference to "break-in" ALL engines on a test stand. More control if anything starts to go wrong; the stand takes care of holding the engine (in a model - YOU have to do that as well as all the engine-running things...) Not everybody agrees, so...
Well, let me guess that you want to "run-in" the engine before first flight, with it mounted in the model. The engine instructions almost certainly say something about not lettng the fuel level be much above the spraybar (the tube or fuel jet in the carb body where the fuel comes out.) If it IS above that with the plane sitting on its wheels or on a flight box cradle, well, all liquids pour downhill, don't they?
That could be how too much raw fuel got into the engine's innards... Solution is simple: Don't fill the tank as much, only enough that there's fuel UP TO but NOT ABOVE that spraybar level.
To clear a "flood" - the condition you describe - the best way is to rotate the model to where the cylinder head points down, below horizontal with the shaft, and rock the propeller a few times. The turn the prop until you feel resistance from the piston closing the exhaust port. Hold it at that resistance and rotate the model so the head is up at least a bit above horizontal with the prop shaft, and the muffler or exhaust stack is pointed some down. Ease the prop back to where the exhaust port opens. The excess you pushed up to the upper part of the engine, just before this step, is freed to pour out the exhaust into the muffler, or simply out of the engine if there is no muffler.
Repeat this a few times to be more sure. Then, set the model back in its engine-start position. Remove the glow plug. I presume you'll use an electric starter? Give it a few spins with that, to blow out the last of the excess raw fuel. Replace the glow plug. Many recommend this, simply. ...NOT bothering to rotate the engine, or model, as above. Bothe work, but I trust the earlier-described way...
Check to make sure the fuel level in the tank is not too high. Connect the battery to the plug, and pull the prop through (counter-clockwise IS the right direction!) a few times. HOLD the prop firmly, you may feel a "bump." If it "bumps" there's enough fuel in the cylinder to fire. That's why you are holding it firmly - it might kick forward and try to start, or kick backward and give you a nasty rap on the fingers.
You are also checking that there is not so much fuel in the engine that trying to start it will cause "hydraulic lock." Liquids are incompressible, for all practical purposes. If you hit the prop with a starter, or flip it through sharply enough to hope for a start, you might pump too much fuel into the combustion chamber. When the ports close, it has nowhere to go.
If there's more liquid up there than allows the piston to go through Top Dead Center, you are trying to compress incompressible liquid. Metal things will break! Pulling it through assures you that this won't (shouldn't, anyway) happen. If all is good, either touch the prop with that starter, or flip the prop sharply through Top Dead Center. Several flips without hearing any pops suggests you could "prime" the engine.
Assuming a muffler is mounted, and has a line to tap pressure from the muffler to pressurize fuel in the tank, putting a fingertip over the muffler outlet hole and flipping the prop can be enough prime. You should see the fuel driven by the muffler pressure, going to the carb nipple... Battery back on, try pulling through a few times, then flipping sharply.
If the carb needle settings are per the instructions, this should do it.
Oh, and by all means!, find somebody nearby who is succesfully flying models like your Protege Trainer. He should welcome another flying buddy to the fold, and be glad to share his learning experiences with you - saving you a lot of probable heartbreak, time, money and frustration.
Oh, and yes, all modern engines gain from at least a few brief runs before first flight. The engine's machined pieces get a chance to "polish-in" with each other, without the loads of flying. And - perhaps even more important - YOU get to be familiar and (more?) comfortable with getting the engine going.
12-19-2009, 08:13 AM
#6
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RE: First time engine start
If you have a RC club nearby, you could stop by and ask for assistance. Most any of the experienced fliers would be willing to help.
12-24-2009, 04:38 AM
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RE: First time engine start
Id clear the old fuel out of the engine. set your needle to 2 1/2 open. Remove the glow plug and turn it over until the fuel stops gushing out of the plug hole. Keep doing it till you can see only spray coming out the plug hole. Check to make sure the plug is working. If it is insert it and try to start the engine without priming it Using figers or starter you should get a result.
12-24-2009, 08:22 AM
#8
Senior Member
RE: First time engine start
Folks if this has already been mentioned please forgive me. Some engines will kick back (especially if slightly flooded as already mentioned) when flipped in the counterclockwise direction and actually try to run in the opposite direction causing the fuel to "blow" back out of the carb. I start my engines with an electric starter most of the time so this isn't a problem for me. If the engine is indeed kicking back and running backwards, then try flipping it clockwise and it will probably kick back and run in the correct direction. If you are starting it with an electric starter then this shouldn't be the problem.
Also, if you are a licensed pilot, then you are used to talking about engine rotation as viewed from sitting in the cockpit. Counterclockwise, as refered to in this case, is as viewed from the front of the engine looking back as opposed to sitting in the seat like we are normally used to. Good luck and hope you get it figured out.
Also, if you are a licensed pilot, then you are used to talking about engine rotation as viewed from sitting in the cockpit. Counterclockwise, as refered to in this case, is as viewed from the front of the engine looking back as opposed to sitting in the seat like we are normally used to. Good luck and hope you get it figured out.
12-24-2009, 11:29 AM
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RE: First time engine start
Get help. Your message gives me a scare. These are powerful engines and can be very dangerous. Get with a club member or some one with experience with glow engines. The props turn very fast, at idle around 3,000 or RPM and at max anywhere from 12,000 and up. It can cut you up badly.
Good luck,
Chip
Good luck,
Chip
12-24-2009, 01:15 PM
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RE: First time engine start
I had the same issue with an Evolution .46 when trying to start it with a chicken stick. Sometimes it would rotate and start the correct way and sometimes it would kick back and start in reverse, blowing fuel out of the carb. Invest in an electric starter so it will start in the correct rotation and have happy flying!! :-)
12-25-2009, 01:21 PM
#11
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RE: First time engine start
Wayne,
Merry Christmas.
Since you started this thread six days ago, you've been awfully quiet and this is still your one and only post in this forum, since you joined it in May...
There is nothing to be humiliated about, from being new to the hobby. Once, each and every one of the 'experts' here was a 'newbie'...
There is a lot to learn in these pages, but you will learn very little, if you remain shy and inconsistent...
People here have asked you questions, so they can better help you; after understanding better what you're up against.
We don't know what engine it is. If it is an engine that has a tapered-bore piston and cylinder set, read [link=http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_1850473/tm.htm]this thread[/link] (it is a hyperlink - click it!) to understand the break-in process your engine should undergo, before you can expect it to start and run properly.
If it is a ringed-piston engine, there are other threads in this forum you can follow; or just follow the break-in (or run-in) procedure, which should appear in the manual the engine came with; the same one that told you the prop should be spun counter-clockwise to start...
Most engines are never 'ready to run' from the factory; and what you are seeing, all experienced R/Cers have seen many times before...
Merry Christmas.
Since you started this thread six days ago, you've been awfully quiet and this is still your one and only post in this forum, since you joined it in May...
There is nothing to be humiliated about, from being new to the hobby. Once, each and every one of the 'experts' here was a 'newbie'...
There is a lot to learn in these pages, but you will learn very little, if you remain shy and inconsistent...
People here have asked you questions, so they can better help you; after understanding better what you're up against.
We don't know what engine it is. If it is an engine that has a tapered-bore piston and cylinder set, read [link=http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_1850473/tm.htm]this thread[/link] (it is a hyperlink - click it!) to understand the break-in process your engine should undergo, before you can expect it to start and run properly.
If it is a ringed-piston engine, there are other threads in this forum you can follow; or just follow the break-in (or run-in) procedure, which should appear in the manual the engine came with; the same one that told you the prop should be spun counter-clockwise to start...
Most engines are never 'ready to run' from the factory; and what you are seeing, all experienced R/Cers have seen many times before...
