damifino

Khodges- We went to Myrtle Beach for the week. Spent a couple of hours with the WACO's over a couple of days. They are only 2 miles from where we stay down there. We visited the Intrepid in '93, very interesting, especially the SR-71 Blackbird.

Here's a link to a short promotional spot with the orange UPF-7


:[link]http://www.tv33mb.com/classicair.html[/link]

Stickbuilder

Jay,

Glad you got the sheeting templates. Looks as though you guys had a great time on the vacation.

I've been working on the model of the Bulldog, and sneaking in a few minutes on the WACO as well. The fuse is ready for the cowl ring, and I'll be cutting it out this week. I'm thinking of turning my own stand-off's from 6061 T-6 and polishing them. I've got the wheel pants and the respective mounts done, as well as having the cuffs laid up for the mains. Since I redid the tailwheel to a scale gear with shock absorbing capabilities, I've about decided that the tailwheel fairing will not work. The tailwheel will travel about 1/2" at full deflection, so that would make the fairing unworkable. Whad do you guys think? Does the model with the shock absorbing tailwheel gear use the fairing or not?

Bill, AMA 4720
WACO Brotherhood #1

pimmnz

Bill,
I use a shock absorbing tailwheel on my UPF and I will make a few observations. Landing and takeoff there is precious little time for the tailwheel to be on the ground, static, there is little weight on the wheel either. Getting the model in and out of the car, assembly, disassembly, and storage can wipe the thing off. IMO, if the full size had a fairing, and a shock absorbing tailwheel, then so can/should the model. While the model is doing things a model should the wheel is perfectly safe. At all other times, normal care and attention will preserve the bits.
Evan, W.B.#12.

skylarkmk1

Bill,

Is your tailwheel moving up and down in a modified front gear mount or is is moving back like the full size? That amount of travel does seem to be a bit much. The full size use rubber donuts instead of a spring, so the travel is a lot less. Suggest replacing the spring, if possible, with one that is a bit stronger/stiffer to lessen the travel or place shims in the spring to do the same. The big fancy hard fairings being seen today on the new Classics and Supers were not present on most YMFs/UMFs back in the 1930s. One plane UMF N 14041 had a wheel pant on the tail wheel (picture #9 on the NWC site F3F5 album) and is also shown with out any fairing (picture #11). The ones that did have a hard fairing, the fairing was about half the length of the ones seen today. Examples are; YMF NC 14607 (picture #59 NWC) and YMF NC 14132 (Ken's model, picture #53 NWC). Most of the Wacos being restored at CCA/HARM have a leather boot to close the tailwheel opening

Stickbuilder

John,

The tailwheel travels in an arc as does the full scale. In fact, the tail gear is a direct copy of the full scale. The 1/2" amount may be exaggerated a little (not much) I can measure the travel. It does travel back and up in a smooth arc. I could replace the coil spring with rubber O-rings and tame it down a lot. Or as you said, I could shim the assembly and come up with less travel.

Bill, AMA 4720
WACO Brotherhood #1

khodges

My Feedback: (1)

I'm sold, I'm ready, how much, when? I can still hear the radials from CCA.


John (skylarkmkI)--- heard any more about the DH-4 and Osh Kosh?

damifino

He will take two passengers and I think a 40 minute flight is about $180.00. So 90 bucks each ain't too bad......

skylarkmk1

Ken,

Oh yeah, the DH-4 went to Oshkosh. Glen Peck, Chief DH-4 restorer finished the radiator louvers and some other minor details and off he went. The DH-4 had troubles getting there, the alternator, water pump and starter all gave Glen fits, all needing to be rebuilt on the way, only took 6 days to get there. When he finally arrived, he was mobbed just like Lindberg in Paris. He warned the people about the hot exhaust, but when one dummy made contact with the pipe and emphasized the fact (yelling ouch), the rest backed off. Glen also stated that the grass around the DH-4 was pretty well gone from people looking at it while it was there. It only took him one day to get home. And the DH-4 was given the Judges Choice Award.

Terry Chastain, Chief Waco Restorer, took the QCF (NC 12428) to Oshkosh and won the Grand Champion Award. Terry was not at CCA this weekend and the QCF was locked up in his hanger, so I was unable to get a current picture.

The Blue and White AcroSport II was taken to Oshkosh also and won the Best Plans Built Award.

Pictures of the three winners.

khodges

My Feedback: (1)

Ouch. That makes me all the more grateful to our own Waco Joe (Norris) for the ride in his UPF at CCA, we were up about that long, and to Moe, the guy I rode with across St Louis with in his Stearman. Free rides and made a couple of great friends in the bargain.


John-- Great to hear that CCA was well represented at AirVenture, and that the planes made such a grand showing, not that I'm the least surprised. Those guys are probably the Rembrandts of Golden Age restoration, and deserve all the accolades they can get.

I may have to get them to restore mine, if I keep going the way I am. Got it all crooked on takeoff, and ground looped. Buggered the prop tips and skint the cowl chin and wheel pants a tad, but nothing some 400 grit and touch up paint (plus a new prop) won't fix. I got too eager and tried taking off in a 90 degree crosswind, and overcompensated on the rudder trying to stay straight on the runway. The increased response of the 2.4 GHz makes things really sensitive; I think I need some more expo on the rudder.

I just hope I can make this thing last long enough to make a picture with the completed UPF. It's been too hot to do anything in the shop; no A/C, and it's 98 with a heat index of 100+ today.

SuperCub Man

khodges and damifino - About how much covering did you use on the 1/5 Waco. I'm trying to estimate for 3 aircraft and I'm thinkin in around 7 meters each. That's using Solartex and it comes in that "funny measurement" in 2 and 5 meter rolls.
Thanks

damifino

I have not covered mine yet. Stickbuilder, Hughes500E and Khodges, among others, will know.

khodges

My Feedback: (1)

Jim, this won't be much help, I'm afraid, but I had one of those bedsheet-sized Koverall packages. I covered the whole plane and still have enough to probably do the UPF as well (same scale). With the odd size of the Solartex roll, you should maybe count on one roll (2 meter) for each wing (top wing will be close on length) one roll for the fuse. You can get the tail done from the remainders of the fuse pieces maybe. The Solartex roll scrap I had handy is wide enough to go from trailing edge, under the wing, around and over the top to the trailing edge, and have about two inches to spare. If you cover the entire wing with one piece, you'll have enough; if you do top with one piece and bottom with the remainder, it will be very close to have enough to overlap, but it's do-able.

JoeAverage

I never read the hole thread to see if any mention was made of these before so forgive me in this case if it is redundant but I use these in this scale and they look great.

Hamilton Standard Hub replica prop nuts for popular size engines for this range.

http://www.bennettbuilt.com/page9.htm

at the bottom of the page.

Stickbuilder

Joe,

I bet these hubs look great, but I'm looking for something that covers the entire prop hub. I still think that the AT-6 style would look very realistic, but from some of John's post, it probably would not appear scale-like.

Bill, AMA 4720
WACO Brotherhood #1

skylarkmk1

Bill,

The Classic YMF, NC 14081, has a spinner that was very similar in shape to a standard plastic Du-Bro, Dave Brown Spun Aluminum Parabolic or Tru-Turn Special spinner (pic 1). I was able to get some better shots of the spinners (or lack of) this past weekend.

P1 – Waco MF Classic, NC 14081
P2 – Waco YKS, NC 3NX (similar to the SRE) – Tru-Turn AT-6 style
P3 – Waco UBF-2, NC 155Y TEXACO
P4 – Waco UBF-2, NC 155Y TEXACO
P5 – Waco CSO, NC 671N
P6 – Waco JWM, NX 8550
P7 – Waco GXE, N 6675K
P8 – Waco UEC, NC 13050

Sorry Bill, very few of the Wacos (the GXE) at CCA have a wood prop like the Sensenich. The only wood prop (Sensenich) I saw was during the Fly In on the UEC, NC 13050, which had no spinner and was un-cowled. There are some good shots on the web of YMFs with wood props.

My guess for the use of the metal props is that they require a little less maintenance than wood and can be polished up very nice for display, even though the Curtis-Reed type are cantgetemanywhere.

Stickbuilder

John,

After looking at the photos that you just posted, it looks as if pic #2 was the look that I was after, but it do kinda look like a Staggerwing does it not? I guess I'll go with a more conventional type of spinner. I just don't think that a YMF looks right without a spinner of some type.

Bill, AMA 4720
WACO Brotherhood #1

SuperCub Man

Here's another style, which is the way I am going. The aircraft I'm modelling after is located at the St. Catharines Airport, 5 minutes away, so I can photo any details I need. The red plane shows the spinner/prop nut best. Yellow is easier for these old eyes to see!!
[img]
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khodges

My Feedback: (1)

Jim, what you're looking at doing is what I did; I'm using it on a simulated metal prop, although the bolted flange is only used on wood props. One of those "acorn" style prop nuts or one of the small tapered ones would be close to what we saw at CCA.

On mine, I took a standard fender washer that fit the prop shaft , drilled it equally spaced in 8 places, and threaded them for 2-56 rods, placed nuts on them and ground the rods flush with the washer and nuts. I Ca'd them to keep them tight.

SuperCub Man

That's exactly what I want!! I'm going down to the workshop right now and try it!! Thanks

Stickbuilder

That's a great idea for a scale hub. I may end up doing without a spinner, but I sure do want one. I may end up milling one from aluminum and doing it the way I have in mind. I still like the profile of the T-6 spinner.

Bill, AMA 4720
WACO Brotherhood #1

khodges

My Feedback: (1)

GAWD IT'S HOT!!!!!! 101 right now with a 107 heat index. If it gets much browner around here, I'll start thinking I'm in Ariz. I went and bought a window air conditioner for the garage (airplane shop), it's a cool (?) 81 in there now.

I wonder if there's enough lift in the air to fly this evening?

damifino

Stickbuilder- Your package went out yesterday. Let me know what you think.

skyjet1

You got that right! It hit 104 in Charlotte today. I hope I'll be able to get back in the air next week.

SuperCub Man

Jay - I have been going back through the thread and trying to make an index of sorts, mainly for my own use, of all the construction photos. I have often come across a question and I know I've seen it in the postings some where - but with over 3200 posting, it is very time consuming to find if I ever do!! I'm going backwards from the current pages and am now at page 90! Perhaps this might be of use to someone when I get it finished. It might be useful to have a rough index of all the terrific info that has been posted so one could find stuff quickly! It could also be added to by others as this thing builds!!
Anyway - my question is regarding the pix you posted on page 101 & 112 on the initial layup of the fuse formers. I notice you have made many lightening holes. Were these done from some sort of available layout or just where you thought they should be based on building experience. I'm always concerned that I will weaken the structure too much by bad hole placement. Also how did you change the landing gear structure to accomodate the aluminum gear you were working on with khodges?
Making up the crutch with laminations is a great ideal making a much stronger structual member.
I certainly appreciate all the construction photos you and khodges have posted like the 1/64 ply khodges used to simulate plating. I just love this stuff!!!!

khodges

My Feedback: (1)

I finally got to fly the UMF again; almost a disaster. When I took off, I had a great takeoff roll, straight as a stick, but when it came off the ground, it started a severe left bank (90 degrees) and left turn, that full right aileron had no effect on. I pulled out of the throttle, I was only 8 or 10 feet off the ground and was rolling to inverted. When I cut the throttle, it immediately rolled right because of the aileron input. I made an off-runway landing in the rough grass next to the runway, perfectly level, no bounce, the engine was still running. The new landing gear works great !!!

I pushed it back on the runway, and talked it over with a couple of guys who fly giant scale gassers (WWI stuff mostly); we decided it was engine torque with inadequate airspeed and not enough right rudder that created the situation. There was just a breath of breeze that contributed to a downwind takeoff, if it was even blowing at the time of takeoff. I tried again, but this time held the plane on the ground about twice as long, and did a long slow climb-out while holding a lot more right rudder; this time it was much better, although until I pulled back the power, there was a strong tendency to pull left. I have no right thrust in the model, and expected this effect , but not quite like I experienced it today. I have quite a bit of right trim on the rudder to compensate and at half throttle it cruises nicely. It turns much easier to the left than the right, which is on-par with the full scale performance from what I gathered from talking to the pilots at CCA. The second, intended landing was glass smooth, the gear noticeably flexed within the limit of its travel, I am very satisfied with our result, Jay. All this description is just to say that if you plan on powering with a gasser or anything with a lot of torque, you might want to consider a tad of right thrust to help tame the beast. It's not unmanageable, but definitely a challenge.

S-C Man, my UPF effort will use either lithoplate or aluminum flashing instead of the 1/64 ply for the plating, I hope. I've got to impose on Jay to see how to hammer or wheel the metal to make the compound curve of the front area at the boot cowl. You don't have an English wheel in that wonderful shop of yours, do you Jay?