skylarkmk1

Rick,

It can be difficult to get the pronunciation correct so here is a guide;

The town in Texas - Way-co.

Weaver Aircraft Company or Waco - Wah-Co (sounds like Taco)

Wacko (crazy person) - Wac-Ko

Some people think all the Waco aircraft enthusiasts are wacko.

Here’s a question for you guys. Is there a connection between Weaver Aircraft Company (Waco) and Waco, TX?

skylarkmk1

Rick,

Radial Engines Ltd. http://www.radialengines.com/ has been mentioned before and it would be neat to hear the difference between one of their Fuel Injected engines and the normally aspirated carburetor engines. I don’t know if all of the Waco Classic Aircraft Co. planes have the fuel injected Jacobs, but due to the better performance of the engines, it is possible for those built after 2004. I don’t believe the 1987 YMF NC 14081 has a fuel injected engine even though it was ordered with all the top rated equipment at the time. The fuel injection conversion didn’t get approved until 2004.

Read the PDF file about the conversion written by Steve Curry. He was also a seminar speaker at the 2007 AWC Fly In and talked about fuel octane, lead additives, oils and their additives. He has interesting stuff and is an interesting person.

Thomas B

My Feedback: (4)

I celebrated the new year by getting an early maiden flight in my my electrified Pica/Cox ARF 1/5 scale Waco YMF. No pilot or windshield or extensive scale mods for the maiden...I was trimming my stock windshield to improve the fit and it cracked across the center pane.....sigh. I will scratch a new one later this week.

Duslasky 6360CA-11T 1.60 glow class outrunner, 20-12 APC thin electric prop, Dualsky 90 Amp HV ESC, 7S TP Prolite 4300 lipos.

Was very light and nimble on this setup with great climb. Motor was loafing and was at the ambient cold temp of the day after the flight. Will need the 10s pack for serious glider towing, though.

Notable amount of P-factor with this prop. The ARF kit has a wad of right thrust built in and it was not quite enogh for the

I will likely use 10S 4400 lipos and 12S2P A-123 cells in the future.

With the lower cost of lipos and/or A-123s, my total power system cost is $507, showing that reasonably priced giant scale electrcis are here.

(Motor is 135, ESC is 147 and the 10s Lipos or the 12S 2P A-123 cells are right at 225 for either one)

Pics as soon as the trusty photographer gets them to me....

How does a lowly ARF electric Waco flyer get into the Waco brotherhood?..

khodges

My Feedback: (1)

John, from what I understand, the EFI conversion can be retrofitted to any Jake, all it takes is a big cash infusion. The injector is mounted in the intake pipe just before the cylinder head, and the carb is replaced by a simpler throttle body. The sensors that go with the system tweak the injectors to even the mixture for all cylinders; with the old carb setup, there would always be a couple of cylinders leaner or richer than the others, and this, of course is what makes the engine less efficient, since you had to lean the engine to the leanest cylinder, the rest would be too rich, losing power and wasting gas.

PacificNWSkyPilot

My Feedback: (19)

Ahh, Thomas, You have asked the right question in the right place.


Bill?

old git

Hi Don,

Soldering Piano (Music) wire.

Piano wire is probably the strongest steel you will come across when building models.

To bend it, it is often heated to red heat but this results in a loss of temper and it becomes softer and more likely to bend in service at the softened point. Piano wire can be successfully brazed (Copper, Zinc, Silicon alloy) or Silver Soldered (Copper, Silver alloy). It will however lose some of the intrinsic strength it was probably chosen for. It’s mode of failure will be to bend. To preserve the temper of piano wire it should not be heated to the temperatures required to make these hard soldered joins successfully. The lower melting temp’ silver solders have a higher silver content and so are more expensive. When I worked for Eutectic Welding Alloys about 40yrs ago, these materials were kept in the Bullion Store.

A lower temperature joint can be achieved using Soft Solder (Lead, Tin alloy). My memory of the exact proportions of lead to tin have become rather vague but still, the lower melting solders have the higher Tin content. As far as I remember electrical solder is about 63% Tin and 37% Lead, the eutectic composition for the lowest melting temperature. This is not as strong as the Tinners solder so a composition of 50% Tin & 50% Lead has a higher melting temp’ but is stronger. I know availability of some solders has probably changed in the USA, it has here in UK. The use of Lead in the plumbing industry is seriously frowned on so different alloys are now mandatory to avoid uptake of the poisonous heavy metal into the human body.

Large models require comparatively thick wire, 3/16” up needs a large soldering iron to put enough heat into the wire as well as the joint. If the joint looks rough or pasty there is not enough heat to make a successful joint. I use a 1000W soldering iron to achieve the result. Copper wire can be used to reinforce the joint but preferably Florists wire, very low carbon iron wire. This wire is very soft and ductile and so can make close contact when the joint is bound.

It is imperative that any hard or soft soldered joint is scrupulously clean and all oxide is removed including that on the Florists wire. Flux is applied prior to heating the joint to avoid re-creating an oxide layer.

Soft Soldering.
Soft soldered joints will be made using an Acid flux, this may be in liquid form or as a paste. Never use this to solder electrical cables, the acid will flow by capilliary action between any fine strands and between the conductor and the insulation. Flux core electrical solder can be used to solder electrical cables but tend to stiffen stranded wire making it prone to fatigue breakage at the limit of the solder travel. For that reason shrink tubing reduces the failure risk. A properly soldered join will of course have lower electrical resistance than a crimped joint so is used for high current joints.

For a strictly mechanical joint the reinforcing iron wire for binding must be sanded clean of any oxide or lacquer, acid flux applied before heating with a Cleaned & Tinned soldering iron. The soldering iron itself must be treated properly. All the tapered surfaces of the Copper Bit should be filed and emery papered/clothed? to get a fine finish then using flux, covered in a layer of solder, this process is known as Tinning.

The joining process itself is achieved by holding the Bit under the job contacting it. Heat is carried into the job by conduction of the heat through the solder Tinning on the bit. More solder is applied to the Bit and it flows over the joint by capilliary attraction. It does not work to BOMB the joint with liquid solder.

Once familiarity is gained of the requirements of a soldered joint many other heat sources can be used as long as the surface of the work is not overheated and is protected by flux.

Silver Soldering.
Silver solder requires a higher temperature than can be used with a soldering iron. Blowlamps and Bunsen burners can be pressed into service. The critical issue is that the metal must NEVER be overheated. For those with Oxy/Acet equipment a slightly carburising flame is used with the outer envelope of the flame providing the local heat. Flux powder can be mixed with the recommended alcohol or distilled water (I use common or garden Tapolene) from the tap. The metal surface is covered with flux paste and the S/S rod brought to the work together with the heat. I often warm the rod and get a tuft of the powdered flux on the end before I bring it to the work. In some circumstances it is easier to place a solder ring around a joint before heating. As the heat melts the S/S it will run into the joint by capilliary attraction. As with lead solder it must be seen to be liquid on the surface of the work.

Brazing.
Brazing is essentially similar to silver soldering but using a Brazing Flux and Copper, Zinc alloy often known as Spelter. The technique is similar but using higher temperatures, potentially more difficult.

When brazing etc do not use house bricks to support the work they tend to burst sending fragments about the place (friendly fire?) Refractory Firebricks are very good to support the work, I am assured that the bricks in an Electrical Storage Heater are refractory.


old git - - - aka John L.


WACO Brotherhood No. 14.

Stickbuilder

NEW BROTHER ALERT

Well, first you must show us that long extension cord...... (I had to do it)

You have just become Brother #89. I hope you have a good time with it.

Bill, AMA 4720
WACO Brotherhood #1

Stickbuilder

John L,

Now just who was it (a couple of weeks ago) who claimed that he had not contributed anything to the Brotherhood? Let's not hear that statement again. That is probably the most comprehensive dissertation on soldering that I have ever had the pleasure of reading.

Bill, AMA 4720
WACO Brotherhood #1

skylarkmk1

John L.

I agree with Bill, you've given us a comprehensive lesson in soldering, silver soldering and brazing in a few short paragraphs. Good stuff. Each of us has knowledge to contribute in their own way. None of us will ever be an expert in every aspect of this kit, building, flying or covering and any info that anyone can contibute is appreciated. Thanks again.

skylarkmk1

Bill,

According to the last list RCBOATMANIAC is Brother #88 ??? [sm=confused.gif]

WacoNut

I joined this group 10 months ago and got involved in a couple other projects and work and forgot all about it, I missed so much and I really had fun reading through the 150+ pages that had appeared since my last visit. More info in here than you could learn on your own in several years of research.
Anthony

Stickbuilder

Sheesh, [:@] I nevair.....niver...never cood.....kould....could tipe.....type. I mint.....meant 89......Geez.....[:@]

Bill, AMA 4720
WACO Brotherhood #1

Thomas B

My Feedback: (4)

Thank you, thank you...

No worries about the long extension cord joke...I will ponder a suitable retort during the time I am saving by not having to clean up after flying my shiny new Waco that stays perfectly clean on the belly and in the cowl and never drips fuel or oil in the house...

WacoNut

yeah but flying with batteries you never get to hear this
[link]http://youtube.com/watch?v=iK0u2nSronc&feature=related[/link]

skylarkmk1

Tom,

When you get the chance, post some pictures of the plane and especially the motor setup (under cowl and in fuselage). Going Green might be just the way for ring cowled Wacos like the UPFs, UBFs, QCFs and many more. The double sided (front and back of the cylinders) dummy engine crank case could enclose the motor and not worry about hiding a cylinder, carb or muffler.

WacoNut

I can see why you like electric power, I have a Great Planes EP Corsair. It is fun to throw in the cab of the truck and fly it anywhere. I can even fly it at work at lunch time. I am sure the 1/5 Waco isn't as easy but the electrics do have their advantages.
Anthony

WacoNut

John,
I just noticed your avatar, here is a pic of my Sig 1/4 Scale Clipped Wing Cub. It has been through 3 flying season's and still looks the same.
Anthony

skylarkmk1

Anthony,

I found the picture of the 200hp Super Cub, flown by John Mac… (can’t read the rest), a stunt pilot, while researching info on the Super Cub. I am working on a 1/5th scale Super Cub from scaled up RCM Plans (May 98, plan #1251). I will probably not use this particular color scheme as I have a complete walk around of another Super Cub (yellow w/blue).

red 1a

Hi John L

Thanks for the excellent tutorial on soldering. Great information! Now...since I don't have a 1000W soldering gun or a soldering iron can I use a propane tourch instead ?

red 1 (aka Don Borton)
AMA IMAA
WACo Brotherhood #72

khodges

My Feedback: (1)

Is that a puddle of electrons I see under your plane? I appreciate what electrics can do nowadays, and I'll bet you can hear the wind in the wing wires a lot better, but I just gotta have internal combustion NOISE.

skylarkmk1

Don,

Yes, you can use a propane torch, use the smaller tip if possible or the Soldering Iron adapter. I prefer a large soldering gun or soldering iron. As John L. pointed out, clean the parts very well (sand, wire brush, steel wool), use plenty of flux, don't heat the joint directly with the flame or over heat the metal and let the joint melt the solder into the liquid state. If you see the solder "frosting" (dull) as it cools, it was not quite hot enough. Reheat until it flows smoothly, you will probably not need to add aditional solder. I'll repeate; clean surfaces, plenty of flux, heat until the solder melts but don't over heat the joint and look for a nice smooth, shiney solder surface. Practice a few times on some spare stock first to get a feel for it.

Gunslinger

My Feedback: (7)

for skylarkmk1

[link=http://www.bigcountryairfest.org/html/john_macguire_airshows.html]John MacGuire Airshows[/link]

I have seen his show a few times, very good.

Stickbuilder

I haven't tried an electric plane.

Bill, AMA 4720
WACO Brotherhood #1

PacificNWSkyPilot

My Feedback: (19)

I recently bought a few of the E-Flite models, I'm putting them together and learning about electrics. These smaller ones are like eggshells, though, that much I can tell you. I hope they'll hold together, but in all honesty, I just can't see how they could last very long. It seems hangar rash could be lethal to these things. Time will tell. As for large ones, I'll wait and see if I can stand the absence of motor noise on the smaller ones first.

Jim

aminiet

Excellent information on soldering, I would just have said. put soldering iron until solder melts.

I found a ball stud link at the car/buggy department. I like it better than the ones made by Dubro in that they have an Allen wrench socket. 4-40 thread about 3/8" in length. brand name is Associated P/n 6277

28 degrees in Houston this morning, Darn global warming !!

Angel
B 58