WACO YMF
03-14-2019, 04:59 AM
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The photo on the box, and the red decal set suggest the later model 1/5. BUT, his previous ad for that airplane shows another label, which looks more like the 1/6 label (but it's hard to tell because the forum software won't let you enlarge expired ad photos - go figure).
picca waco biplane kit new in the box - RCU Forums
But, in any event, confidence is very low...
Mike
picca waco biplane kit new in the box - RCU Forums
But, in any event, confidence is very low...
Mike
03-28-2019, 03:06 AM
John
03-28-2019, 03:26 AM
After putting the hobby down for a couple of years I'm finally back at the Waco. With almost everything on it, it's right at 13 Lbs. Still needs paint though. I'm using an RCFF 30cc twin with a 19x8 prop. Any thoughts on the weight and how it will work out? 4 3/4" from the top wing LE is the recommended CG?
03-29-2019, 06:36 PM
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johnboy, i always measure my planes as i will fly them.(i wouldn't measure an electric without its flight battery). for fuelers, I put in at least half a tank so I know how they will balance on the landing sequence. Since this model has the tank in front of the wing LE, it can make a measurable difference.
I like the white color on your bird, my blue is too dark for cloudy day visibility.
Enjoy.....JJ
I like the white color on your bird, my blue is too dark for cloudy day visibility.
Enjoy.....JJ
04-28-2019, 09:24 AM
This thread hasn't moved very much for some time. I realize I'm a bit behind on finishing my 1/5 Pica Waco and I need some help in figuring out a problem with aileron geometry. Any one still out there still able to help?John
04-28-2019, 11:11 AM
1/5 Waco
John, I've been flying that scale for a few seasons now. What do you need to know?
To perhaps speed things along, here is a pic of the modded servo setup I added to mine. Originally the central servo and bellcrank setup developed slop, pretty much the norm after a while. I opted to cut open the wings and install bays for servo plates. Each servo has the arm installed slightly forward of center so that geometry automatically gives you more up than down to negate adverse yaw. I have been doing this for a long time and almost always can run both servos from the same aileron channel. Only problem I found recently was with the G/P Waco build shown in the next post since the JR digitals did not seem to be able to mount that way and needed a matchmaker to mimic center and end points. These are not programmable so a bit more work.
To perhaps speed things along, here is a pic of the modded servo setup I added to mine. Originally the central servo and bellcrank setup developed slop, pretty much the norm after a while. I opted to cut open the wings and install bays for servo plates. Each servo has the arm installed slightly forward of center so that geometry automatically gives you more up than down to negate adverse yaw. I have been doing this for a long time and almost always can run both servos from the same aileron channel. Only problem I found recently was with the G/P Waco build shown in the next post since the JR digitals did not seem to be able to mount that way and needed a matchmaker to mimic center and end points. These are not programmable so a bit more work.
04-28-2019, 11:22 AM
G/P Waco Build
Not sure if posted anything regarding this previously, but picked this GP version up last year and finally able to work on it for a couple of months now. Even with family visiting, first vacation in over 27 months allowed for a bit more time in the build room.
Except for cockpits and fairings which will go on last, have almost the entire exterior done. Corrected some of the design flaws I found along the way. First was to replace the wire control runs with GoldenRod that fits the interior of their original sleeves. Frankly, hated the idea of wires much smaller than the sleeves rattling around in there. That and bends required to link the two elevators together proved ugly and inelegant. Hidden inside the fuse, but I just hate that sort of setup.
What is impossible to see is the rods have wire with threaded ends embedded to support the lengths outside the sleeves. This allowed for strength where required, while not interfering with flexibility and gave a threaded end to attach the clevises. Care was required since not a lot of adjustment in the thread length.
This also made a second elevator servo mandatory since no easy way to ling the two runs without serious fabrication. Easier to install, but a bit more difficult to program, (more on that in a bit).
I also found there was no easy method to link ailerons between upper and lower wings. The angle between link rod and horns became far too acute when deflected.
So, a bolt and dental floss had a new pull down from the center hole to each servo bay. From there it was just a matter of getting everything put together so no chance of pulling apart.
That is another problem upon field assembly as the lead for the upper wing runs up a cabane and will have to figure out a method to lock them together so flight loads don't ruin the day.
That brings me back to the programming. Took some effort since now dual aileron channels, as well as dual elevators. I could have reversed one elevator servo to make them both run the same direction, but the length to the sleeve would have placed too much angular load upon large deflection.
Added in is the requirement for a dedicated gyro gain channel to set the Futaba GYA430 tied to the rudder. Hoping this will prevent the ugly event at a scale event
a couple seasons ago. Add crosswind to pavement and it was pretty much heading where it wanted. If it helps knife edge this will be a bonus.
Replaced their tail wheel assembly with a Sullivan used in several other apps, including the same scale Pica Waco. This is a much more elegant solution as it not only provides some suspension, the spring eliminates direct loads into the rudder and servo. From past experience there is no problem at all with ground steering control. Will be painted yellow.
Unfortunately the soft balsa bottom had to be carved out and a ply insert epoxied in. Tapered the fuse cut so the insert would drop in and tighten at the proper height. Think of carving the top of a pumpkin.
The large cut in the back of the fuse and bottom of the rudder the original rig was to fit took a bit of work to get the hinges solid. Those are large pin type and used a long wire to align all 4 as the first halves set in the tail.
Fuel tank is installed, but not too comfortable with just rubber bands holding it in place. May come up with something a little more reliable.
The throttle run is complete, as well, the wire in tube method allowing for routing wherever required. The scrap OS 160 twin provides what I needed for that and to fit the cowl. Still working on an exhaust setup to clear since leaving it stock would be extremely messy.
Internally I have to mount the Rx and LiFE pack and rig up the switches and indicator. Will be similar to the Pica in that I will have the push button cell indicator, a flashing LED to warn power is on, as well as a remote glow head. From the way it ran last on the test stand not likely to need remote glow. Even if it did, along with the Sullivan unit, now have at least 5 others picked up along the way, several at the latest Toledo Show a few weeks ago, (3 for $15 USD!).
At this point aboot the only remaining assembly problem is their fake radial. Still looking for one of better quality, but for now may have to bite the bullet and try and build that one up without all the plastic cracking along the way.
Since weather has finally broken should have a pic or two all together in the yard for test runs. With the amount of rain the field seems ready for Ark assembly rather than flying ops, so about all that can be done for now.
As is pretty much my norm, for the first flights will leave the wheel pants and cowl off.
ps. Sorry for the pics inserted into the middle of the text. Did not realize that would happen and no idea how to correct it.
Except for cockpits and fairings which will go on last, have almost the entire exterior done. Corrected some of the design flaws I found along the way. First was to replace the wire control runs with GoldenRod that fits the interior of their original sleeves. Frankly, hated the idea of wires much smaller than the sleeves rattling around in there. That and bends required to link the two elevators together proved ugly and inelegant. Hidden inside the fuse, but I just hate that sort of setup.
What is impossible to see is the rods have wire with threaded ends embedded to support the lengths outside the sleeves. This allowed for strength where required, while not interfering with flexibility and gave a threaded end to attach the clevises. Care was required since not a lot of adjustment in the thread length.
This also made a second elevator servo mandatory since no easy way to ling the two runs without serious fabrication. Easier to install, but a bit more difficult to program, (more on that in a bit).
I also found there was no easy method to link ailerons between upper and lower wings. The angle between link rod and horns became far too acute when deflected.
So, a bolt and dental floss had a new pull down from the center hole to each servo bay. From there it was just a matter of getting everything put together so no chance of pulling apart.
That is another problem upon field assembly as the lead for the upper wing runs up a cabane and will have to figure out a method to lock them together so flight loads don't ruin the day.
That brings me back to the programming. Took some effort since now dual aileron channels, as well as dual elevators. I could have reversed one elevator servo to make them both run the same direction, but the length to the sleeve would have placed too much angular load upon large deflection.
Added in is the requirement for a dedicated gyro gain channel to set the Futaba GYA430 tied to the rudder. Hoping this will prevent the ugly event at a scale event
a couple seasons ago. Add crosswind to pavement and it was pretty much heading where it wanted. If it helps knife edge this will be a bonus.
Replaced their tail wheel assembly with a Sullivan used in several other apps, including the same scale Pica Waco. This is a much more elegant solution as it not only provides some suspension, the spring eliminates direct loads into the rudder and servo. From past experience there is no problem at all with ground steering control. Will be painted yellow.
Unfortunately the soft balsa bottom had to be carved out and a ply insert epoxied in. Tapered the fuse cut so the insert would drop in and tighten at the proper height. Think of carving the top of a pumpkin.
The large cut in the back of the fuse and bottom of the rudder the original rig was to fit took a bit of work to get the hinges solid. Those are large pin type and used a long wire to align all 4 as the first halves set in the tail.
Fuel tank is installed, but not too comfortable with just rubber bands holding it in place. May come up with something a little more reliable.
The throttle run is complete, as well, the wire in tube method allowing for routing wherever required. The scrap OS 160 twin provides what I needed for that and to fit the cowl. Still working on an exhaust setup to clear since leaving it stock would be extremely messy.
Internally I have to mount the Rx and LiFE pack and rig up the switches and indicator. Will be similar to the Pica in that I will have the push button cell indicator, a flashing LED to warn power is on, as well as a remote glow head. From the way it ran last on the test stand not likely to need remote glow. Even if it did, along with the Sullivan unit, now have at least 5 others picked up along the way, several at the latest Toledo Show a few weeks ago, (3 for $15 USD!).
At this point aboot the only remaining assembly problem is their fake radial. Still looking for one of better quality, but for now may have to bite the bullet and try and build that one up without all the plastic cracking along the way.
Since weather has finally broken should have a pic or two all together in the yard for test runs. With the amount of rain the field seems ready for Ark assembly rather than flying ops, so about all that can be done for now.
As is pretty much my norm, for the first flights will leave the wheel pants and cowl off.
ps. Sorry for the pics inserted into the middle of the text. Did not realize that would happen and no idea how to correct it.
04-28-2019, 12:43 PM
This is how I set up my ailerons. I pick up some 1/8" toggle bolt butterflies and used the small end of the butterfly. You will see on the bottom wing the slave rod is closer to the hinge side of aileron and on the top wing it is to the trailing edge of the aileron. I hope this help this set up worked good for me.
04-28-2019, 01:14 PM
That's actually a neat idea. You may find some differential between top and bottom ailerons, but if different size may not be a problem.
04-28-2019, 01:51 PM
Thank you all for getting back with me. I'm guessing that Dan figured out my dilemma, judging by the picks he reposted. My ailerons are driven by two servos, Left and right on the lower wing. I set up the end points at 1" up and 3/4 down. Easy......
Then I hooked up the ailerons on the top wing with a push rod thinking that they would follow the same geometry. NOPE...... Way off. I looked back and see a lot of others set up the same as mine, but there has to be a better way. No plans to add servos to the top wing....... Dan, so by moving the push rod attachment point on the lower closer to the hinge point will help?John
04-28-2019, 03:16 PM
By moving the attach point on the lower driving aileron closer to the hinge point you will reduce the amount of deflection on the upper aileron. Is that what you are aiming for?
04-28-2019, 04:12 PM
Yes sir it is what I'm going for. As it is, I have differential in the top, but the wrong way. the up travel I can live and work with, but the down is close to 1 1/4". The opposite of the lower wing.
04-28-2019, 04:31 PM
Last question of the day..... Looking at the weight of this plane, it got fat quick! As it sits dry and nearly flight ready, its just under 16 lbs. Engine is an RCGF 30cc twin with a 19x8 prop.
Thoughts?
Thoughts?
Last edited by johnboy151a; 04-28-2019 at 06:30 PM. Reason: spelling
04-28-2019, 06:01 PM
They do get heavy quick. Mine was close to 19 lbs with a G26 not over powered but flew scale. You should be fine with a 30cc
05-10-2019, 05:22 PM
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Dan: I also like the approach that you are using for the ailerons, very clever. I also like the terminal hardware arrangement for attaching the N Struts. Where did you get these or is it another modification of existing hardware?
I would like to implement it on my next build. Thanks.
I would like to implement it on my next build. Thanks.
05-18-2019, 05:53 AM
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I haven't been on here in quite a while but am looking to sell an unstarted Pica Waco kit, 72 " wingspan I think (the larger one). I was wondering what sort of price the kits are going for these days. Any input would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Chris
WB # 133
Thanks,
Chris
WB # 133
Last edited by Cricklewood; 05-18-2019 at 06:02 AM.
05-18-2019, 11:34 AM
Pica
That would be the 1/5 version and I paid on average $300 CDN for the both of mine with glass cowls. Cannot remember if came with those stock.
05-18-2019, 02:08 PM
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wind indidence
I have been detailing the setup on a old build (1980?) pica waco ymf-3, 1/5 scale and found some wing incidence and twisting issues. So when I compared the build plans to what I have read on the forums about wing incidence, their are glaring differences. The pica plans say, 0 incidence on both wings and pos 2 degrees on the H-stab. Also, the CG indicated on the plans is at 5 1/2" from the top LE. The forums say 4 1/2".
Any ideas about why their is such a difference?
Thanks
WB #273
Jeff
Any ideas about why their is such a difference?
Thanks
WB #273
Jeff
Last edited by Jeffryz; 05-18-2019 at 02:11 PM.
05-20-2019, 06:23 PM
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Hi Jeff,
I have not built the Pica Waco, but if I remember correctly Stickbuilder and others were using the 0 deg incidence on both wings and the +2 on the stab. I think it’s the same on the Barth 1/4 scale. As far as the CG, instead of relying on the kit instructions or somebody else to tell me, I always prefer to calculate my own. It’s not hard to do. Here’s a link. Good luck,
https://www.modelairplanenews.com/balancing-biplanes/
Mike L.
I have not built the Pica Waco, but if I remember correctly Stickbuilder and others were using the 0 deg incidence on both wings and the +2 on the stab. I think it’s the same on the Barth 1/4 scale. As far as the CG, instead of relying on the kit instructions or somebody else to tell me, I always prefer to calculate my own. It’s not hard to do. Here’s a link. Good luck,
https://www.modelairplanenews.com/balancing-biplanes/
Mike L.
