got a question - learning to fly the nose!
09-05-2007 | 04:08 PM
#1
Thread Starter
Senior Member
My Feedback: (12)
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,340
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
From: Dwight,
IL
got a question - learning to fly the nose!
ok, I boned up! I realized this last night, I learned to fly using my tail... everyone says to use the nose, and I understand why, but with my current realization, I'm stuck having to learn again... can anytone help out? when I put the nose towards me, the heli jumps and bounces like a drunk is driving it!
how do I break my bad habit?
how do I break my bad habit?
09-05-2007 | 06:07 PM
#2
Senior Member
My Feedback: (3)
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 641
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
From: Waunakee,
WI
RE: got a question - learning to fly the nose!
Practice, just like you did for tail-in.
My tail in is rock solid now, and my nose-in is still a little shaky. Hit the sim hard if you have one. That's what I've been doing.
My tail in is rock solid now, and my nose-in is still a little shaky. Hit the sim hard if you have one. That's what I've been doing.
09-06-2007 | 10:44 AM
#5
Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 359
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
From: miami,
FL
RE: got a question - learning to fly the nose!
Good news for you Strat!!!!!
Since you learned by flying the tail, that means that once you set up the controls for "nose flying" that means that you can spin the bird around 180degrees and fly nose-in!!!! Then it'd be like you were still flying the tail!
Relearning is no big deal. Just fly the way you normally do, it will eventually just "click". But it's not written in stone that you have to fly the nose. It's more a matter of preference and popularity. Most people fly the nose simply becuase thats how the majority fly and if somebody else picks up your heli or vice-versa there won't be any difference in control schemes.
Since you learned by flying the tail, that means that once you set up the controls for "nose flying" that means that you can spin the bird around 180degrees and fly nose-in!!!! Then it'd be like you were still flying the tail!
Relearning is no big deal. Just fly the way you normally do, it will eventually just "click". But it's not written in stone that you have to fly the nose. It's more a matter of preference and popularity. Most people fly the nose simply becuase thats how the majority fly and if somebody else picks up your heli or vice-versa there won't be any difference in control schemes.
09-06-2007 | 10:54 AM
#6
Thread Starter
Senior Member
My Feedback: (12)
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,340
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
From: Dwight,
IL
RE: got a question - learning to fly the nose!
BAD NEWS MAN!!!
your theory is good, but when we practice it... I whip that nose around to point at me and everything seems to get ********* up! I get soooo disoriented...
I'll keep practicing..
your theory is good, but when we practice it... I whip that nose around to point at me and everything seems to get ********* up! I get soooo disoriented...
I'll keep practicing..
09-06-2007 | 09:19 PM
#8
Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,734
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
From: Sykesville,
MD
RE: got a question - learning to fly the nose!
The best reason for "flying the nose" is it's more intuitive when you get moving instead of hovering. Eventually you'll need to have the heli's frame of reference governing your control movements, and every other flight action is relative to the direction the nose and rotor disc are pointing. Just control it like driving a car, and "steer" left and right with the left stick.
BTW, don't try to jump to nose in. You'll get it quicker and with fewer crashes if you gradually inflate a figure eight from simple side to side motions: first step is moving the heli left and right, tail in, until you can keep it going slowly and smoothly from abot 20 feet to the left to twenty feet to the right, at a constant speed and altitude. This will teach you how to hover up to almost completely side in both left and right, but you won't even realize it while you're doing it <g>.
Once you have that down to a science, then start turning it a bit toward the direction it's going-- left when going right to left, and right going left to right. Keep at that until you can turn it directly into the line of travel, so you fly left to right, turn 180 degrees left, fly right to left, turn 180 degrees right, then left to right and so on, still slowly and at constant altitude.
When you're comfortable with that, the inflating starts-- gradually, instead of just piroing at the end, keep moving forward a little as you turn, and turn a little bit more at each end, slowly making the left-right and right-left legs push out so that instead of the same line they are two lines that cross. Now you're flying a figure 8.
The above will teach you more about orientations than just trying to hover, and it will also get you started in FF in different orientations instead of just the hover so you don't get stuck. The end of this set of exercises is when you can fly continuous steady circles in both sides of the eight, and when the heli crosses the center it is flying directly towards you. If you have been concentrating on maintaining a constant altitude and (slow) speed, then at that point you can slow to a stop and hover nose-in without any additional training.
BTW, don't try to jump to nose in. You'll get it quicker and with fewer crashes if you gradually inflate a figure eight from simple side to side motions: first step is moving the heli left and right, tail in, until you can keep it going slowly and smoothly from abot 20 feet to the left to twenty feet to the right, at a constant speed and altitude. This will teach you how to hover up to almost completely side in both left and right, but you won't even realize it while you're doing it <g>.
Once you have that down to a science, then start turning it a bit toward the direction it's going-- left when going right to left, and right going left to right. Keep at that until you can turn it directly into the line of travel, so you fly left to right, turn 180 degrees left, fly right to left, turn 180 degrees right, then left to right and so on, still slowly and at constant altitude.
When you're comfortable with that, the inflating starts-- gradually, instead of just piroing at the end, keep moving forward a little as you turn, and turn a little bit more at each end, slowly making the left-right and right-left legs push out so that instead of the same line they are two lines that cross. Now you're flying a figure 8.
The above will teach you more about orientations than just trying to hover, and it will also get you started in FF in different orientations instead of just the hover so you don't get stuck. The end of this set of exercises is when you can fly continuous steady circles in both sides of the eight, and when the heli crosses the center it is flying directly towards you. If you have been concentrating on maintaining a constant altitude and (slow) speed, then at that point you can slow to a stop and hover nose-in without any additional training.
09-06-2007 | 11:04 PM
#9
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 211
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
From: Winslow,
ME
RE: got a question - learning to fly the nose!
That is some awesome flight training advice osterizer. But it seems so far away from where I'm at. I'm still just trying to get a stable hover. It's beginning to become apparent to me that the reason I may be having so much difficulty is due to ground effect. The heli seems to be much less erratic when I get it off the ground a couple or three feet. But even with that it's tough keeping it in control in the garage. This time of year here it starts to get windy, so it's not often I get days where I would dare take it outside where there's more room to maneuver. But I guess that's what I'm going to have to try and do. Even then, it won't be long before it's too cold to fly outside and then I'm basically stuck in the basement for about 6 months, unless I can find another place to practice. I know I'll get there, it just seems like a long way from now.
09-06-2007 | 11:45 PM
#10
Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,734
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
From: Sykesville,
MD
RE: got a question - learning to fly the nose!
HelisRule--
I know what you mean-- I started learning in the garage on a Blade CP Pro (one of many mistakes in my life, but if you can fly a BCPP, you can fly anything!), and it really stunted my development for a while.
You don't need to get a stable hover. You need to get control. So if you're having trouble keeping it in one place, then try oscillating-- swing it back and forth in about three feet, and instead of concentrating on keeping it at one point, concentrate on other things: a little left cyclic makes it go this far, then a little right brings it back, so try to just go back and forth between two points close together. Make up your own games-- at this point in time what you learn is as much what you want to do as what the regimen says.
You can still do all of the above in the basement, but it will be harder and at the end you'll be a better flier than if you had all the room in the world, but you'll spend a bucketload of money on rotors, so right now, get out of your basement. Don't try anything of the above at first, but once you can hover for a pack get outside. The biggest improvement you'll see right now is when you a) get outside; b) get used to having all that airspace around you; and c) realize that having all that space means that you won't run into the lawnmower if you make the slightest mistake. Get more space around you, in other words, and you'll learn a lot faster.
For the winter months, see www.modelaircraft.org. This is the AMA Web site, and your link to flying clubs around you. I haven't looked for your location, but I guarantee you there is a club nearby that's solved the problem of how to fly in the winter-- they've found a gym, warehouse or something.
I know what you mean-- I started learning in the garage on a Blade CP Pro (one of many mistakes in my life, but if you can fly a BCPP, you can fly anything!), and it really stunted my development for a while.
You don't need to get a stable hover. You need to get control. So if you're having trouble keeping it in one place, then try oscillating-- swing it back and forth in about three feet, and instead of concentrating on keeping it at one point, concentrate on other things: a little left cyclic makes it go this far, then a little right brings it back, so try to just go back and forth between two points close together. Make up your own games-- at this point in time what you learn is as much what you want to do as what the regimen says.
You can still do all of the above in the basement, but it will be harder and at the end you'll be a better flier than if you had all the room in the world, but you'll spend a bucketload of money on rotors, so right now, get out of your basement. Don't try anything of the above at first, but once you can hover for a pack get outside. The biggest improvement you'll see right now is when you a) get outside; b) get used to having all that airspace around you; and c) realize that having all that space means that you won't run into the lawnmower if you make the slightest mistake. Get more space around you, in other words, and you'll learn a lot faster.
For the winter months, see www.modelaircraft.org. This is the AMA Web site, and your link to flying clubs around you. I haven't looked for your location, but I guarantee you there is a club nearby that's solved the problem of how to fly in the winter-- they've found a gym, warehouse or something.
09-07-2007 | 09:31 AM
#11
Senior Member
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 810
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
From: Dickinson,
TX
RE: got a question - learning to fly the nose!
May I add one more thing I discovered last night - make absolutely sure the tail rotor is absolutely perpendicular to the main rotor - any slight misalignment will make hovering very difficult - reason is, a minor tilt does 2 things - you don't get the full force of the tail rotor for yaw stability, plus, it changes the cyclic forward or backward, depending on which way it is out of alignment. After I got mine aligned last night, hovering in one place was SO much easier!
09-07-2007 | 09:38 AM
#12
Junior Member
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 12
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
From: Durango,
CO
RE: got a question - learning to fly the nose!
I have been struggling with my Axe CP for about 2 months. I have no LHS within 250 miles so everything I break I have to order and it takes days/weeks to get them. So, I bought G3.5 and after a month of practicing, I can fly pretty well. However, it doesn't substitue for the real thing. I get very frustrated at the non-3D feel for the screen vs. being outside with the real thing.
I bought a Venom Ocean Rescue. It is 100 times easier to fly than the Axe. I still am anxious for the day that I can fly the Axe as well as the Venom but the Venom has totally boosted my confidence level for flying in all directions at many different altitudes. It's response is horribly sluggish and it hates even the slightest of breezes but, boy, has it done a lot for my 'feel' for the sticks. I have a much better understanding of how to hover nose in, left side in, right side in, and tail in. I have been able to learn how to actually fly to a particular spot and land.
I'm not endorsing this particular brand but the concept of buying a non-CP heli to learn on has helped me a lot. Now, I have to start applying that to the Axe, with the sim as my 'crutch'.
I bought a Venom Ocean Rescue. It is 100 times easier to fly than the Axe. I still am anxious for the day that I can fly the Axe as well as the Venom but the Venom has totally boosted my confidence level for flying in all directions at many different altitudes. It's response is horribly sluggish and it hates even the slightest of breezes but, boy, has it done a lot for my 'feel' for the sticks. I have a much better understanding of how to hover nose in, left side in, right side in, and tail in. I have been able to learn how to actually fly to a particular spot and land.
I'm not endorsing this particular brand but the concept of buying a non-CP heli to learn on has helped me a lot. Now, I have to start applying that to the Axe, with the sim as my 'crutch'.
09-07-2007 | 09:41 AM
#13
Thread Starter
Senior Member
My Feedback: (12)
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,340
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
From: Dwight,
IL
RE: got a question - learning to fly the nose!
Skywaterbanjo - take a step up to an MX400 or something similar... they are absolutely great to fly!
Oserizer! you da' man! I'm all over what you've said, I've been playing with nose out and side to side movements and having fun.. after a bit I usually end up turning into them to get some forward flight action.. so, I guess I'm on the right track according to your post.. which is totally cool! I'll keep practicing (both real life and real flight)
Oserizer! you da' man! I'm all over what you've said, I've been playing with nose out and side to side movements and having fun.. after a bit I usually end up turning into them to get some forward flight action.. so, I guess I'm on the right track according to your post.. which is totally cool! I'll keep practicing (both real life and real flight)
09-07-2007 | 12:29 PM
#14
Senior Member
My Feedback: (3)
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 641
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
From: Waunakee,
WI
RE: got a question - learning to fly the nose!
While I'm still very much an novice, I can definitely confirm osterizer's point about getting some space to fly in.
I can hover the BCCP in my basement, but since there is very little room around, there is not much room for error. You almost have to be perfect and it's intimidating to try and get it off the ground more than a foot because it's harder to bail if it gets away from you.
I took it out to my club's field, and found it was much easier, which I attribute to not having to worry about any obstacles around and being able to pick it up off the ground 4 or 5 feet. It also gave me a little more leeway to experiment with the hover, and the ability to learn the amounts of control input needed to keep it stable. A little to much? No prob, just bring it back and your brain adjusts the next time. In the basement or my garage, this would end up in a new set of rotor blades.
I can hover the BCCP in my basement, but since there is very little room around, there is not much room for error. You almost have to be perfect and it's intimidating to try and get it off the ground more than a foot because it's harder to bail if it gets away from you.
I took it out to my club's field, and found it was much easier, which I attribute to not having to worry about any obstacles around and being able to pick it up off the ground 4 or 5 feet. It also gave me a little more leeway to experiment with the hover, and the ability to learn the amounts of control input needed to keep it stable. A little to much? No prob, just bring it back and your brain adjusts the next time. In the basement or my garage, this would end up in a new set of rotor blades.
09-07-2007 | 01:33 PM
#15
Thread Starter
Senior Member
My Feedback: (12)
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,340
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
From: Dwight,
IL
RE: got a question - learning to fly the nose!
actually I"m finding that if I go to the local park to fly, I screw up more, but along with that, I learn to get out of my screw ups... I have yet to crash it... and I'll try more without the obstacles... I can fly in my front yard, but it's more of a hover when I'm there because of trees, etc...
09-07-2007 | 02:57 PM
#16
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 211
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
From: Winslow,
ME
RE: got a question - learning to fly the nose!
I wouldn't mind it so much if I knew I had it trimmed out properly, then it would just be a matter of figuring out which way I had to move the sticks to get it to do what I wanted. But if it's not trimmed right, it's just that much harder, and then once I get it trimmed, I have to relearn the sticks.
09-07-2007 | 05:12 PM
#17
Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 612
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
From: Bakersfield,
CA
RE: got a question - learning to fly the nose!
ORIGINAL: osterizer
The best reason for "flying the nose" is it's more intuitive when you get moving instead of hovering. Eventually you'll need to have the heli's frame of reference governing your control movements, and every other flight action is relative to the direction the nose and rotor disc are pointing. Just control it like driving a car, and "steer" left and right with the left stick.
BTW, don't try to jump to nose in. You'll get it quicker and with fewer crashes if you gradually inflate a figure eight from simple side to side motions: first step is moving the heli left and right, tail in, until you can keep it going slowly and smoothly from abot 20 feet to the left to twenty feet to the right, at a constant speed and altitude. This will teach you how to hover up to almost completely side in both left and right, but you won't even realize it while you're doing it <g>.
Once you have that down to a science, then start turning it a bit toward the direction it's going-- left when going right to left, and right going left to right. Keep at that until you can turn it directly into the line of travel, so you fly left to right, turn 180 degrees left, fly right to left, turn 180 degrees right, then left to right and so on, still slowly and at constant altitude.
When you're comfortable with that, the inflating starts-- gradually, instead of just piroing at the end, keep moving forward a little as you turn, and turn a little bit more at each end, slowly making the left-right and right-left legs push out so that instead of the same line they are two lines that cross. Now you're flying a figure 8.
The above will teach you more about orientations than just trying to hover, and it will also get you started in FF in different orientations instead of just the hover so you don't get stuck. The end of this set of exercises is when you can fly continuous steady circles in both sides of the eight, and when the heli crosses the center it is flying directly towards you. If you have been concentrating on maintaining a constant altitude and (slow) speed, then at that point you can slow to a stop and hover nose-in without any additional training.
The best reason for "flying the nose" is it's more intuitive when you get moving instead of hovering. Eventually you'll need to have the heli's frame of reference governing your control movements, and every other flight action is relative to the direction the nose and rotor disc are pointing. Just control it like driving a car, and "steer" left and right with the left stick.
BTW, don't try to jump to nose in. You'll get it quicker and with fewer crashes if you gradually inflate a figure eight from simple side to side motions: first step is moving the heli left and right, tail in, until you can keep it going slowly and smoothly from abot 20 feet to the left to twenty feet to the right, at a constant speed and altitude. This will teach you how to hover up to almost completely side in both left and right, but you won't even realize it while you're doing it <g>.
Once you have that down to a science, then start turning it a bit toward the direction it's going-- left when going right to left, and right going left to right. Keep at that until you can turn it directly into the line of travel, so you fly left to right, turn 180 degrees left, fly right to left, turn 180 degrees right, then left to right and so on, still slowly and at constant altitude.
When you're comfortable with that, the inflating starts-- gradually, instead of just piroing at the end, keep moving forward a little as you turn, and turn a little bit more at each end, slowly making the left-right and right-left legs push out so that instead of the same line they are two lines that cross. Now you're flying a figure 8.
The above will teach you more about orientations than just trying to hover, and it will also get you started in FF in different orientations instead of just the hover so you don't get stuck. The end of this set of exercises is when you can fly continuous steady circles in both sides of the eight, and when the heli crosses the center it is flying directly towards you. If you have been concentrating on maintaining a constant altitude and (slow) speed, then at that point you can slow to a stop and hover nose-in without any additional training.
Anyway, I still second this great advice. Two months ago I made the switch to a T-Rex and have only nose in hovered a few times. Instead I started flying large banking figure 8s. When I started my 8's looked like a long twisted rubberband. Now they look like two large circles. I have even pulled off a few stall turnes at either end. I fly at a local school and fly goal post to goal post on the soccer field at an altitude of around 20'-30'. I can now fly very fast right at myself nose in without a problem. This weekend I am planning on forcing myself to practice some nose in hover, I will take osterizers directions about how to start agian, but the heli will be at least 20' off the ground so I can recover if I get in any trouble.
09-07-2007 | 06:01 PM
#18
Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,734
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
From: Sykesville,
MD
RE: got a question - learning to fly the nose!
Thanks for the good feedback, folks, I appreciate it.
I just remember how insanely boring just practicing staying in one place got
.
I just remember how insanely boring just practicing staying in one place got
.
09-13-2007 | 05:18 PM
#19
Thread Starter
Senior Member
My Feedback: (12)
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,340
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
From: Dwight,
IL
RE: got a question - learning to fly the nose!
guys, an update.....
all week I've found time to fly after work.. monday was blah... tuesday an improvment, but yesterday... WOOOOOO HOOOO!!!!! I put that sucker wherever I wanted, forward flight, side flight, circles... anything that I tried worked...
today is another story, I crashed at luch...
but anyhow, thanks to everyone (especially osterizer) you guys were a great help... I guess I thought about it a bit, did the simulator a bit and then it pretty much happened, I didn't think about it or make an effort, I just felt comfortable flying it!
all week I've found time to fly after work.. monday was blah... tuesday an improvment, but yesterday... WOOOOOO HOOOO!!!!! I put that sucker wherever I wanted, forward flight, side flight, circles... anything that I tried worked...
today is another story, I crashed at luch...
but anyhow, thanks to everyone (especially osterizer) you guys were a great help... I guess I thought about it a bit, did the simulator a bit and then it pretty much happened, I didn't think about it or make an effort, I just felt comfortable flying it!
09-13-2007 | 05:44 PM
#20
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 211
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
From: Winslow,
ME
RE: got a question - learning to fly the nose!
That's how I'm hoping the simulator will make me feel. At present flying it is a big nerve-wracking event. I feel like I need an extra set of hands. I used to be better with video games, but the hand-eye coordination must be aging too.
. There are a lot of manevuers you can move to after that-- enjoy!
