Building a Buggy Eating Savage
09-06-2011, 01:46 AM
#26
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 48
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Building a Buggy Eating Savage
Quick update.
The truck is running. The Picco X28 is a beast of an engine!
Acceleration is great and handling is superb. Got the sway bars ready to be fitted and half the big bore shocks are on.
Not raced against the Hyper7 yet but its already destroying other savages.
Will post up pictures soon.
The truck is running. The Picco X28 is a beast of an engine!
Acceleration is great and handling is superb. Got the sway bars ready to be fitted and half the big bore shocks are on.
Not raced against the Hyper7 yet but its already destroying other savages.
Will post up pictures soon.
09-06-2011, 09:08 AM
#27
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: GlasgowScotland, UNITED KINGDOM
Posts: 125
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Building a Buggy Eating Savage
glad to hear you like the schumacher picco i recently put one in my savage good picco engine for the money
09-06-2011, 10:25 PM
#29
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 48
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Building a Buggy Eating Savage
Ok, i can do videos!
I already have a YouTube channel with a few RC videos, amongst a bunch of random videos for another forum i use.
My channel if anyones interested: http://www.youtube.com/user/pmscooby?feature=mhee
I already have a YouTube channel with a few RC videos, amongst a bunch of random videos for another forum i use.
My channel if anyones interested: http://www.youtube.com/user/pmscooby?feature=mhee
09-07-2011, 02:54 PM
#31
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Greenville,
VA
Posts: 82
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Building a Buggy Eating Savage
You might wanna check into what I'm thinking about doing to my savage.
Installing a complete delrin gear set. I feel It would drastically reduce weight and add a consistency to the drive train with less overall parasitic loss.
Ebay has them for a relatively cheap investment.
[link=http://www.ebay.com/itm/HPI-SAVAGE-21-SS-25-GPM-51-TOOTH-SPUR-GEAR-DELRIN-NEW-/190455604679?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2c5809e5c7]Ebay - Delrin Spur[/link]
[link=http://www.ebay.com/itm/Delrin-center-gear-box-gears-DSAV1000-HPI-Savage-X-/200615121926?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2eb597d406]Ebay - Delrin gear box set[/link]
Installing a complete delrin gear set. I feel It would drastically reduce weight and add a consistency to the drive train with less overall parasitic loss.
Ebay has them for a relatively cheap investment.
[link=http://www.ebay.com/itm/HPI-SAVAGE-21-SS-25-GPM-51-TOOTH-SPUR-GEAR-DELRIN-NEW-/190455604679?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2c5809e5c7]Ebay - Delrin Spur[/link]
[link=http://www.ebay.com/itm/Delrin-center-gear-box-gears-DSAV1000-HPI-Savage-X-/200615121926?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2eb597d406]Ebay - Delrin gear box set[/link]
09-07-2011, 03:24 PM
#32
RE: Building a Buggy Eating Savage
Interesting Idea you have here. You will never get buggy eating handling out of a Savage though. The buggy platform is just too good. I don't think it is possible to get the COG low enough. Even if the Savage chassis sat on the ground it would still be taller than a Hyper 7 that was sitting at its stock height.
Still I do believe there is LOTS of room for improvement in the handling department for the Savage. Get it as low as possible, as wide as possible, as light as possible, tune your diffs so it will turn better, out drive your friends, and setup a track with as few sharp turns as possible and you might be able to beat his Hyper 7! Moddification is what this is all about. Build something no one else has. And remember lots of pics and vidoes!!
Still I do believe there is LOTS of room for improvement in the handling department for the Savage. Get it as low as possible, as wide as possible, as light as possible, tune your diffs so it will turn better, out drive your friends, and setup a track with as few sharp turns as possible and you might be able to beat his Hyper 7! Moddification is what this is all about. Build something no one else has. And remember lots of pics and vidoes!!
09-07-2011, 04:46 PM
#33
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Greenville,
VA
Posts: 82
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Building a Buggy Eating Savage
I don't see why you can't get the COG low "enough", considering your working with a much wider platform than that of a buggy.
Taking advantage of the XL long hubs you can get more width that the normal savage. I look at it as a 1/7 scale truggy. The only issue here will be not having as much power to weight ratio due to the fact most high performance engines out there are only .28s... But then again if its a standard issue race buggy your contending with, they are limited to the .21s.
If you did enough blue printing on the savage setup, you should end up with a slightly slower truggy than a standard truggy, which should equal out to a buggies performance.
Have you thought about possibly making a secondary brake bracket so as to get brake rate differential? That would help considerably though the turns if there where a center mount diff.
If I was going to do what your doing, I would do away with the entire transmission and retro fit a buggy center diff in there.
Taking advantage of the XL long hubs you can get more width that the normal savage. I look at it as a 1/7 scale truggy. The only issue here will be not having as much power to weight ratio due to the fact most high performance engines out there are only .28s... But then again if its a standard issue race buggy your contending with, they are limited to the .21s.
If you did enough blue printing on the savage setup, you should end up with a slightly slower truggy than a standard truggy, which should equal out to a buggies performance.
Have you thought about possibly making a secondary brake bracket so as to get brake rate differential? That would help considerably though the turns if there where a center mount diff.
If I was going to do what your doing, I would do away with the entire transmission and retro fit a buggy center diff in there.
09-07-2011, 05:03 PM
#34
Senior Member
RE: Building a Buggy Eating Savage
Yeah and while your at it might as well use a flat pan chassis and low profile alloy shock towers and shorter shocks and buggy style c hubs and smaller truggy wheels and... wait what !? 
As for a picco 28 being in the same league as brushless, yeah nah ... 4s maybe but 6s brushless no way, biggest issue with 6s brushless is not just keeping the front wheels on the ground its stopping a violent backflip where a wheelie bar just makes it do a bigger arch and gain more hieght before slamming the ground fully up side down/high speed cartwheel....at any speed, 95 vmax slip on the throttle and bam !
I run my flux with 100% throttle punch control in Monster Mamba(least punch) and my DX3s only dialed up to give 20% punch(low punch)....and its still more than a handful, I call it stupid becuase its near on un-drivable compared to a 6s buggy.
As for a picco 28 being in the same league as brushless, yeah nah ... 4s maybe but 6s brushless no way, biggest issue with 6s brushless is not just keeping the front wheels on the ground its stopping a violent backflip where a wheelie bar just makes it do a bigger arch and gain more hieght before slamming the ground fully up side down/high speed cartwheel....at any speed, 95 vmax slip on the throttle and bam !
I run my flux with 100% throttle punch control in Monster Mamba(least punch) and my DX3s only dialed up to give 20% punch(low punch)....and its still more than a handful, I call it stupid becuase its near on un-drivable compared to a 6s buggy.
09-07-2011, 05:24 PM
#35
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Greenville,
VA
Posts: 82
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Building a Buggy Eating Savage
Dude, why you wanna roll in here and tear down his dreams. Somebody s#@$ in your cereal this morning.
So what your saying is, since I installed a rocket launcher on my rc plane when I was 11, I should have just bought a real drone from the military?
I see nothing you've offered here other than an adverse opinion in a thread that has a statement as a starter title instead of a question mark.
Stay inside the box, you'll be safe there.
So what your saying is, since I installed a rocket launcher on my rc plane when I was 11, I should have just bought a real drone from the military?
I see nothing you've offered here other than an adverse opinion in a thread that has a statement as a starter title instead of a question mark.
Stay inside the box, you'll be safe there.
09-07-2011, 05:42 PM
#36
Senior Member
RE: Building a Buggy Eating Savage
Keeping it real buddy, I didn`t say don`t try but you might as well make plans while being fully informed.
Anyone who thinks a picco 28 savage(I own one) has as much punch as a 6s mm savage hasn`t run both "."
I`m a car nut from way back, I race full size cars and drive a 540hp awd daily driver and turbo v8 landcruiser.... sucess is all about being up to speed and informed about the choices you make and ultimately the money you spend...cal it r&d if you want but its vital to keep improving.
Also about the cg of a savager v buggy...do the math and geometry.....the savage must be DAMN wide a low ! I`ve strpped my flux down that low and it all went to poo, geometry was wrong and it got tagged up and untidy on everything a buggy skids over, thats going to be a challendge
Anyone who thinks a picco 28 savage(I own one) has as much punch as a 6s mm savage hasn`t run both "."
I`m a car nut from way back, I race full size cars and drive a 540hp awd daily driver and turbo v8 landcruiser.... sucess is all about being up to speed and informed about the choices you make and ultimately the money you spend...cal it r&d if you want but its vital to keep improving.
Also about the cg of a savager v buggy...do the math and geometry.....the savage must be DAMN wide a low ! I`ve strpped my flux down that low and it all went to poo, geometry was wrong and it got tagged up and untidy on everything a buggy skids over, thats going to be a challendge
09-07-2011, 06:01 PM
#37
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Greenville,
VA
Posts: 82
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Building a Buggy Eating Savage
Ha, I hear ya. I agree with the electric vs combustion indifference, I mean a diesel locomotive is really electric.
However I don't see where the geometry is a huge concern if you know how to tune shock lengths, oil weights, castor, camber, and relocate COG ext.
I don't think anyone in here really agrees with the fact it will eat a buggy, but to get as close as possible is worth the creative engineering points in my book.
Just so you know since you mentioned it, I am an avid racer myself.
I have been in and around 600-1000+hp drag cars for over 11 years, building full tube chassis' from scratch with our own engine builds with my old man.
I know a thing or two about geometry and how to lay power to the ground.
In stating that, I am not going to argue what works best for track performance in a whole as something designed from the ground up such as an intended buggy, but I think with the right choices and set ups it can surprise a lot of people. Think of it as a sleeper nitro savage.
However I don't see where the geometry is a huge concern if you know how to tune shock lengths, oil weights, castor, camber, and relocate COG ext.
I don't think anyone in here really agrees with the fact it will eat a buggy, but to get as close as possible is worth the creative engineering points in my book.
Just so you know since you mentioned it, I am an avid racer myself.
I have been in and around 600-1000+hp drag cars for over 11 years, building full tube chassis' from scratch with our own engine builds with my old man.
I know a thing or two about geometry and how to lay power to the ground.
In stating that, I am not going to argue what works best for track performance in a whole as something designed from the ground up such as an intended buggy, but I think with the right choices and set ups it can surprise a lot of people. Think of it as a sleeper nitro savage.
09-08-2011, 02:49 AM
#38
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 48
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Building a Buggy Eating Savage
Sway bars fitted last night.
When it ran without the sway bars I had to get up to a pretty good speed to flip the truck on a corner.
I'm still to get the wheel alignment spot on and still using a stock servo so there's still a lot of improvements to do.
My friends hyper is in the shop right now after an engine bearing died so maybe won't be racing him just yet.
I will make sure I get a video of the race when it happens.
Pics coming soon.
When it ran without the sway bars I had to get up to a pretty good speed to flip the truck on a corner.
I'm still to get the wheel alignment spot on and still using a stock servo so there's still a lot of improvements to do.
My friends hyper is in the shop right now after an engine bearing died so maybe won't be racing him just yet.
I will make sure I get a video of the race when it happens.
Pics coming soon.
09-08-2011, 11:42 PM
#39
Senior Member
My Feedback: (4)
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Merna, NE
Posts: 1,105
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Building a Buggy Eating Savage
ORIGINAL: WarCowboy
Ha, I hear ya. I agree with the electric vs combustion indifference, I mean a diesel locomotive is really electric.
Ha, I hear ya. I agree with the electric vs combustion indifference, I mean a diesel locomotive is really electric.
And they make sweet lightning bolts when they have a traction motor flash over or when the dynamic break grids short out.
09-09-2011, 05:47 AM
#40
Senior Member
RE: Building a Buggy Eating Savage
ORIGINAL: WarCowboy
I don't see why you can't get the COG low ''enough'', considering your working with a much wider platform than that of a buggy.
Taking advantage of the XL long hubs you can get more width that the normal savage. I look at it as a 1/7 scale truggy. The only issue here will be not having as much power to weight ratio due to the fact most high performance engines out there are only .28s... But then again if its a standard issue race buggy your contending with, they are limited to the .21s.
If you did enough blue printing on the savage setup, you should end up with a slightly slower truggy than a standard truggy, which should equal out to a buggies performance.
Have you thought about possibly making a secondary brake bracket so as to get brake rate differential? That would help considerably though the turns if there where a center mount diff.
If I was going to do what your doing, I would do away with the entire transmission and retro fit a buggy center diff in there.
I don't see why you can't get the COG low ''enough'', considering your working with a much wider platform than that of a buggy.
Taking advantage of the XL long hubs you can get more width that the normal savage. I look at it as a 1/7 scale truggy. The only issue here will be not having as much power to weight ratio due to the fact most high performance engines out there are only .28s... But then again if its a standard issue race buggy your contending with, they are limited to the .21s.
If you did enough blue printing on the savage setup, you should end up with a slightly slower truggy than a standard truggy, which should equal out to a buggies performance.
Have you thought about possibly making a secondary brake bracket so as to get brake rate differential? That would help considerably though the turns if there where a center mount diff.
If I was going to do what your doing, I would do away with the entire transmission and retro fit a buggy center diff in there.
Unfortunately a Savage is not going to get anywhere even remotely close to the handling of a Truggy or Buggy.......... So if that is the goal you might as well stop and not spend the money as there will only be disappointment in the end ...You can however dramatically improve the Savage's handling, but no matter what you do it will never even get close to the handling of a Truggy.....I am not saying this to burst anyone's bubble, or piss on anyone's cornflakes either, I am just stating the reality of the situation............ I know a fellow who just went thru spending a pile of money on a race Savage with the same intent, he was convinced he could make it handle with the truggies at the track, I tried to tell him differently but he thought he knew better and went ahead with the build tip to tail...1 day at the track, and a quick test drive of an actual truggy and his Savage was for sale by the next weekend...He was very discouraged by how poorly even the fully tricked out race Savage did next to the real race machines........... So before anyone tells you differently do not be putting a pile of money into a Savage with intentions of making it a Buggy or Truggy killer as its just not going to happen, and if that is your goal all your doing is wasting money on a dream that will just never happen.........Once again I am not saying this to bash on the Savage, but rather to save someone a whole pile of money and time trying to build something that will never do what it was intended to do.... A Savage is no match for a Buggy or Truggy no matter how much money you spend...... Anyone who says differently has obviously never wheeled a Buggy or Truggy and is speaking from their ass !
09-09-2011, 02:49 PM
#41
RE: Building a Buggy Eating Savage
ORIGINAL: supertib
Unfortunately a Savage is not going to get anywhere even remotely close to the handling of a Truggy or Buggy.......... So if that is the goal you might as well stop and not spend the money as there will only be disappointment in the end ...You can however dramatically improve the Savage's handling, but no matter what you do it will never even get close to the handling of a Truggy.....I am not saying this to burst anyone's bubble, or piss on anyone's cornflakes either, I am just stating the reality of the situation............ I know a fellow who just went thru spending a pile of money on a race Savage with the same intent, he was convinced he could make it handle with the truggies at the track, I tried to tell him differently but he thought he knew better and went ahead with the build tip to tail...1 day at the track, and a quick test drive of an actual truggy and his Savage was for sale by the next weekend...He was very discouraged by how poorly even the fully tricked out race Savage did next to the real race machines........... So before anyone tells you differently do not be putting a pile of money into a Savage with intentions of making it a Buggy or Truggy killer as its just not going to happen, and if that is your goal all your doing is wasting money on a dream that will just never happen.........Once again I am not saying this to bash on the Savage, but rather to save someone a whole pile of money and time trying to build something that will never do what it was intended to do.... A Savage is no match for a Buggy or Truggy no matter how much money you spend...... Anyone who says differently has obviously never wheeled a Buggy or Truggy and is speaking from their ass !
Unfortunately a Savage is not going to get anywhere even remotely close to the handling of a Truggy or Buggy.......... So if that is the goal you might as well stop and not spend the money as there will only be disappointment in the end ...You can however dramatically improve the Savage's handling, but no matter what you do it will never even get close to the handling of a Truggy.....I am not saying this to burst anyone's bubble, or piss on anyone's cornflakes either, I am just stating the reality of the situation............ I know a fellow who just went thru spending a pile of money on a race Savage with the same intent, he was convinced he could make it handle with the truggies at the track, I tried to tell him differently but he thought he knew better and went ahead with the build tip to tail...1 day at the track, and a quick test drive of an actual truggy and his Savage was for sale by the next weekend...He was very discouraged by how poorly even the fully tricked out race Savage did next to the real race machines........... So before anyone tells you differently do not be putting a pile of money into a Savage with intentions of making it a Buggy or Truggy killer as its just not going to happen, and if that is your goal all your doing is wasting money on a dream that will just never happen.........Once again I am not saying this to bash on the Savage, but rather to save someone a whole pile of money and time trying to build something that will never do what it was intended to do.... A Savage is no match for a Buggy or Truggy no matter how much money you spend...... Anyone who says differently has obviously never wheeled a Buggy or Truggy and is speaking from their ass !
09-12-2011, 06:01 PM
#42
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 48
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Building a Buggy Eating Savage
As i mentioned earlier im only doing this for fun rather than an all out serious attempt at beating buggies.
I dont race in any organised events, the only competitiveness is between friends.
If the truck never beats a buggy it wont matter to me, its already been fun making huge improvements to the handling of a savage.
The truck ran only 1 tank at the weekend due to rain. Still it was enough to see the improvements made by the sway bars.
There is still much room for improvement and this will be an ongoing project.
I dont race in any organised events, the only competitiveness is between friends.
If the truck never beats a buggy it wont matter to me, its already been fun making huge improvements to the handling of a savage.
The truck ran only 1 tank at the weekend due to rain. Still it was enough to see the improvements made by the sway bars.
There is still much room for improvement and this will be an ongoing project.
09-13-2011, 04:00 AM
#43
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Kingston UK, but living in Athens, GREECE
Posts: 18,082
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes
on
3 Posts
RE: Building a Buggy Eating Savage
ORIGINAL: yakfish
Your buddy was dissapointed because he couldn't get it to handle as well as a truggy. and a truggy won't even handle as well as a buggy.
ORIGINAL: supertib
Unfortunately a Savage is not going to get anywhere even remotely close to the handling of a Truggy or Buggy.......... So if that is the goal you might as well stop and not spend the money as there will only be disappointment in the end ...You can however dramatically improve the Savage's handling, but no matter what you do it will never even get close to the handling of a Truggy.....I am not saying this to burst anyone's bubble, or piss on anyone's cornflakes either, I am just stating the reality of the situation............ I know a fellow who just went thru spending a pile of money on a race Savage with the same intent, he was convinced he could make it handle with the truggies at the track, I tried to tell him differently but he thought he knew better and went ahead with the build tip to tail...1 day at the track, and a quick test drive of an actual truggy and his Savage was for sale by the next weekend...He was very discouraged by how poorly even the fully tricked out race Savage did next to the real race machines........... So before anyone tells you differently do not be putting a pile of money into a Savage with intentions of making it a Buggy or Truggy killer as its just not going to happen, and if that is your goal all your doing is wasting money on a dream that will just never happen.........Once again I am not saying this to bash on the Savage, but rather to save someone a whole pile of money and time trying to build something that will never do what it was intended to do.... A Savage is no match for a Buggy or Truggy no matter how much money you spend...... Anyone who says differently has obviously never wheeled a Buggy or Truggy and is speaking from their ass !
Unfortunately a Savage is not going to get anywhere even remotely close to the handling of a Truggy or Buggy.......... So if that is the goal you might as well stop and not spend the money as there will only be disappointment in the end ...You can however dramatically improve the Savage's handling, but no matter what you do it will never even get close to the handling of a Truggy.....I am not saying this to burst anyone's bubble, or piss on anyone's cornflakes either, I am just stating the reality of the situation............ I know a fellow who just went thru spending a pile of money on a race Savage with the same intent, he was convinced he could make it handle with the truggies at the track, I tried to tell him differently but he thought he knew better and went ahead with the build tip to tail...1 day at the track, and a quick test drive of an actual truggy and his Savage was for sale by the next weekend...He was very discouraged by how poorly even the fully tricked out race Savage did next to the real race machines........... So before anyone tells you differently do not be putting a pile of money into a Savage with intentions of making it a Buggy or Truggy killer as its just not going to happen, and if that is your goal all your doing is wasting money on a dream that will just never happen.........Once again I am not saying this to bash on the Savage, but rather to save someone a whole pile of money and time trying to build something that will never do what it was intended to do.... A Savage is no match for a Buggy or Truggy no matter how much money you spend...... Anyone who says differently has obviously never wheeled a Buggy or Truggy and is speaking from their ass !
09-13-2011, 08:26 AM
#46
Senior Member
RE: Building a Buggy Eating Savage
Go on take a pick, on your average well maintained track ? Or if the "classes" were suddenly mixed together....what would the majority of podiums be taken by ?
09-14-2011, 03:20 AM
#49
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 48
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Building a Buggy Eating Savage
Yes, both the extended cups and shocks are a direct fit. No additional parts were needed.
The rear springs are not stiff enough to hold the weight properly, hence the silicone tube compressing the springs. Although I probably have some stronger springs lurking in a box somewhere.
The rear springs are not stiff enough to hold the weight properly, hence the silicone tube compressing the springs. Although I probably have some stronger springs lurking in a box somewhere.