cohma

first off: my keyboard is screwed since my brother spilled coke over my laptop the other day... [:@] i cant use the shift button so everything will be lower case. sorry. (occasionally it will work)

hi all,

i just got my first nitro rc car today. i got it at the local hobby store. its a savage 25 le.
anyway...me and my buddy are trying to break in the new engine. we did everything thats mentioned in the handbook so far.
we are at the point where we start the truck up (without having radio on) so it can run a full tank in idle. first off we find it very difficult to keep the truck from engaging by just pulling on the throttle servo. either its engaged (not idling) or it the engine will shut off because theres not enough throttle. we have tried getting it to idle for so long that the igniter is out of power now and we have to wait for that. so far we ran about 1/2 tank of fuel. (wasnt idling since we couldnt get it to stay) In addition to this the engine shuts off randomly sometimes so we have to start it back up. Im thinking its because its too rich. i just wanna make sure that i dont screw anything up since this was a whole weeks paycheck that went into it. i hope somebody can understand what i am saying since english is not my native language.
thanks for your help guys. great forum here. i think ill be staying here for a while.
i appreciate all the help.

Whoa G

I understand you fine, i didn't notice anything about your language, you type better than some people here that speak english as a first language - probly me too. There is an idle adjustment on you carb (should have a little spring wrapped around it) - NOT the low speed needle(a screw on the END of the carb set flush with the casing), and NOT the high speed needle (the big screw sticking up from the carb), you can use the idle screw to keep it running for the break in - clockwise to raise the RPM, counterclockwise to decrease the RPM. I'd want to keep my radio on when i first start the truck so i make sure that it's not going to over-rev. i heard of a guy at my local hobby shop(lhs, in case you're wondering) that started his truck and the throttle was wide open, and he blew the motor - didn't even get to break it in. Besides, that way you can adjust the throttle without pulling on the servo, which is a little more convenient. By the way - welcome to the forum, you'll get lots of answers to all your questions, i know i have, and you don't absolutely have to have shift, use caps lock for one letter, unless that's broken too

cohma

thanks whoa g for your info. and no my caps lock wont work either, pretty much every key on the far left of my keyboard doesnt work. (most of the times). some symbols i paste into the text using the character map. thank god my fn key works (shift key for my kepad -- because its turned on like caps and i cant get if off so i have to use this fn shift button in order to write some letters -- big pain in tha a.) i will be buying a usb keyboard soon. anyway.... i did not do anything with my savage after i posted here last night. i got too frusturated hehe. my igniter is finally fully charged so i can use it a little bit longer. (last night we plugged in for an hour and got a few tries out of it until we had to plug it in again) but here is my status: i cant start the savage le now. all the carb screws are set flush right now (factory setting) and it wont start. it took the glowplug out with a pair of needlenoses and lit it up with the igniter and worked. so its not the glowplug. the engine is not flooded either.i actually intentionally flooded and unflooded it to see if it helped. (read it somewhere one the forum here). but it did not help. it seems like i just does not even wanna try to spark up.
theres is one thing that just came to my mind. would it be bad for the motor if i left the fuel in the tank and the lines all night?
and how do i get it out if i cant run the engine? can i just take out a hose and let it drain? and drain the gas tank...
i would think it couldnt be too good but i am just wondering if one night is already too long maybe.
well i will be reading some more in the forum to see if i can find a solution myself. but if anybody has a tip or a hint, i would greatly appreciate it. thanks guys.

by the way, i am using jac profuel 20 percent.

TireDr

Hey cohma,
I have the same truck and had the same problem you had. Turn the idle 1/4 of a turn and turn the controller on and give it some throttle. It will cut off alot due to the truck being new and the engine being tight. Just keep starting it and eventually it will continue to run. After your first tank I would leave everything the way it is from the factory and run 2 tanks through it (not full throttle). Once the engine gets hot on this truck it will run. Also, after about the sixth tank, I started to tweak it a little and the truck is a freak now!! Just insane! Hope that helps out.

TireDr

miswa

be patient buddy, my truck was like that. it is better to find someone that knows nitro engines. there is nothing wrong with your truck, its just new and tight.don't be afraid to adjust your needles, just make sure you don't go beyond the safe level. im not sure if what i did with my first truck is right, but it sure did work! try to lean the 'low speed needle' just a little bit, and make sure that the slide carb openning is just 1mm. rich mixture plus tight engine = no power. i think the flush settings are to rich, when you break your engine using the heat cycling method the mixture is slightly leaner than the flush settings. since you just want to idle your engine for now, just adjust the iddle and low speed needle to keep your engine iddling. make sure that you know the proper iddling sound, and the tires shoudn't be spinning at all when idling. if tires spins, then your rpm is too high, if its too low the engine will stop, got the idea?? do this with the wheels raised off the ground.

cohma

thanks for your advice but it still wont work. i played around with the idle adjustment and the fuel mixture a little bit. (1/4 max)
now the roto start keeps locking up after like a half second of starting.
i took the glow plug out and did not see any fuel or any sign of liquid down there. could that be a problem? there is fuel in the line for sure. ill go play around a little bit more and report.

edit...

ok i fixed the problem with the roto starter by charging the battery... my bad...

anyway, it wont start up. i leaned out the low and high speed, i adjusted the idle speed to a higher rpm, etc. and it still wont work. the glow plug is ok, it glows, the battery for the igniter is fine. (since it glows duh)
how long is the igniter supposed to stay on the glow plug? i usually put the rotostart in first, then put the igniter on and then i try to start it. with my left hand i try to adjust the throttle servo (radio off for now). after like 5 - 7 seconds i take the roto starter and the glow plug igniter out. and start over again (with a few new adjustments)
should i leave the igniter on the plug longer to heat it more??

im in florida and right now its 5 30 pm and about 70 degrees. temperature should be fine i would think.


update...

now there is some weird sound when i try to start it up with the roto start. seems like some metal part inside the motor is hitting something or so. its not high pitched. i dont want to do anything right now because im scared i will brake anything if i havnt broken anything yet.

best thing to do for me right now is probably just wait until tuesday when the lhs opens back up. damn.

cohma

ok i got it running. i am just now taking a break (smoking) and letting the engine cool down. i drove it three quarters of a tank in circles so far. seems like when i give it quarter of the throttle it doesnt do anything. it goes like 10 mph with half throttle. i hope thats ok so far. im just glad i got it running. i leaned it out a lot until it started but as soon as it ran i adjusted it back to almost factory. my savage took his first bash driving into the ditch when i went out of range i guess. (forgot to extend antenna - call me a newbie) hehe... dry ditch, 20 inch drop, everything is just fine.
I will start it up again in a second and report later on.

tmodlin

Take it off the blocks and heat cycle the engine. It is a lot more fun and results seem better.

Here is a more indepth article for you to read.

http://www.rbmods.net/enginetempering.php

And check out this thread.
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_3539529/tm.htm

cohma

well i did just a little bit of heat cycling since i already had the 'old school method' pretty much completed.
ive been trying to tune my savage le to get it going a little bit. i got the high speed needle turned one whole turn clockwise. (=more lean, 1 and a half is max is stated in the manual) anyway the savage shows very poor performance. the top end speed is bareley higher from the half throttle procedure during break in. it seems like it stays in first gear too. so that might be the problem. its been doing that from factory settings all the way around to one full turn by one eighth increments on the high speed needle. as far as i know the truck has never made in into 2nd gear so far. so far i almost ran one half gallon through the engine. it is still spitting fuel through the exhaust but im not sure if thats still old (rich) fuel that was remaining in the engine or if thats the fuel im running just now... too many questions hehe. it should be leaned out enough.... but then again. i dont know. hehe.
i also get a lot of air bubbles in my lines allthough i cant find any leaks or cracks. is it normal when fuel runs a little low that the fuel line cant pick up enough fuel from the tank?
and sometimes when i give it full gas the motor just stalls. ... actually quite often.

thats all i can think of right now... ill be playing outside for a little bit. ill check back in an hour. oh yeah, 83 degrees outside. nice

cohma

update

i was playing around with the low speed adjustment and i turned it about quarter way counterwise. now it has some kickass punch in the low end speed. it will pop a wheelie in no time and full acceleration while turning will make it flip. anyway, i just cant get the high end speed adjusted. i turned the needle almost one and three quarters (above whats recommended in the manual) and it still wont do crap in the high end speed. and there is still lots of white smoke so its not too lean as far as i know.
how does it sound when it shifts? i just cant hear the beast shifting. my friend said we might not be able to hear it.... but i read somewhere that you can. and we sure dont hear it shifting. i can see this thing will have some kickass power when it runs right.

i also noticed that the idle adjustment varies for different engine temperatures. i could set the idle fine for a cold start but its totally different when i restart the engine after its already hot. maybe its just me that is too stupid or .... i dont know.

alvinl

My Savage LE didn't start running really good till about 10 full tanks of fuel. It just kept getting more RPM and more torque with each tank. By 10 tanks it was running pretty good.

cohma

so yours started shifting after 10 tanks? or what does shifting sound like? is it easy to hear? i cant hear anything on mine... low speed is just perfect i love it. but then the rpms are screaming high and it wont shift... thats what mine sounds like right now.

and it takes about half a tank to get it going. i guess thats normal.... or not?

alvinl

Mine started shifing when i started tuning and before the 10 tanks. But it did not run real good in 3rd nor would it wheelie till around 10 tanks. You will hear it shift. The RPM's drop and the sound of the motor will change, just like a 1:1 car changing gears. I would run a few tanks through it doing high speed runs, tune it and watch your temps. Also, if it is real cold there, you might be having problems getting your temp up enough for it to run really good. If it is cold, try putting aluminum foil around the cooling head. That will help it warm up and it may run better (if the temp is the issue). The manual says that 220 - 270 is a good range, but mine runs like crap until it's around 240. At 220, mine will not hardly shift now and I have 2-3 gallons through it.

Chronic

Mine shifted to second on the fifth tank after initial tuning and I hit third on the sixth. It runs like crap until it gets up to about 220, like previously stated.

INTEGRA

cohma why dont u go to your LHS and have them take a look at the needle settings and maby even ask them to start ur truck up ...chances are they will get it going good for u.....oo and as far as the shift poiint....u should blatently be able to hear it shift.
TrU

cohma

That's because my LHS is not open until Tuesday and I am so excited to run this truck.
Thanks for the answers. That helps me already. I think I'll be working on the gearbox next. I'll play around with the shiftpoints to see if I can get it shifted. If I dont get it done by Tuesday I'll go to the LHS and let them check it out for me.
By the way, my keboard works again. Yeehaa.
Its around 80 degrees right now. I live in Melbourne, FL. Couple days ago it went down to the 40s but that is about how cold it will get during the year.
There is a lot (!) of construction going around here and there are a lot of freshly cleared subdivisions with lots and lots of big a%$ dirthills. I can not wait!
The only thing that concerns me so far that I have not used a Temp gauge one single time. I just did not have enough money when I got the truck last friday. Anyway, I always used the spit trick and looked how fast the liquid evaporated on the head.
I think I am just too concerned about too many things on my new truck. lol.

Allright, good night.

INTEGRA

ya man i feel u ...i think every single person on this site and ALL other sites felt like u are now ..at some point in their RC'ing career. if u are new u will have a thousand questions and wont really get half the answers u get back...but keep it up and i would definatly go to ur LHS and get it in good with them cuz they will be ur best freind in the next couple months.. and if u bought the truck from them ..they will NOT have a problem running it and making SURE its all good for u to beat up on.....and once u see and experianced RC'er play with ur truck u will be amazed at what it can do with a little tunning knowledge...


P.S the shift points are set from the factory...i wouldnt suggest changing them till ur engin runns good u KNOW for a fact that the 2nd gear isnt engaging.

TrU

alvinl

I really would not touch the shift points. They are set from the factory like Integra stated and I also think they used red loctite. Hold off on the shift points for now. Run a few more tanks through it and do a little more tuning. If you get over anxious and start tweaking too many things, you may get in way over your head before you know it.

Edit - Until you can get a temp gauge, use the spit test. Get the truck hot by doing several high speed passes. Burn about half a tank of gas. With the LE, you always want to tune at 1/2 tank. Pull it in, running, and spit on the head. It should sizzle off in a few seconds. If it does not sizzle, lean it out a little more because it's too cold. If it dissappears instantly, it's way too hot, richen it up. I think you will find it's running too cool.

You want to tune at 1/2 tank because you will find the LE runs pretty bad for the first 1/2 tank then runs really good for the last half, even after you get it broken in and tuned properly. This is because of the 'half tank lean' issue the Savage has. There are posts on here about that issue.

cohma

Thanks guys. I appreciate it. I will hold off on playing with the shift points. I was reading the manual for the last hour or so. (more like looking at the blue prints) I am in a hurry right now since I'll have to be at the theatre in like 25 minutes or so. I am done for tonight. I will play with her tomorrow again and post whats going on.

alvin: I noticed the 1/2 tank issue. I was wondering about that. Everytime I start her up it takes a good half tank to get her really going. Just hasn't shifted into 2nd. I can't wait.

In a couple weeks I will provide you guys with some video material or so.

Thanks for all your help. I really appreciate it. I love this place.

Good night all.

tmodlin

I would be willing to bet that you are still running pretty rich if it takes til a half tank for it to run decent. With mine tuned at half tank I still have a lot of punch at the full tank. It is noticable but not night and day difference. Get a temp gauge til you are more familiar with the truck. Temps are crucial at the beginning of any new engine.

cohma

Ok, I'm back.

I went over to my buddies house this morning to help him out building his workbench and some shelves, etc. in his garage. I brought my Savage over. He also knows a lot about motors in general. Of course this was quite new too him. Anyway, I got my Savage into 2nd Gear today. My biggest problem was that I did not know that you should have the engine at about the same temperature all the time when you tune it. (I ran her about 3/4 tank until I started tuning) That caused some confusion yesterday and the days before.

I have a coulple of questions: What is the maximum turns on your HSN? And your LSN? The Manual states 1 1/2 turns max. for the HSN. But I'm at 3 full turns on the HSN and I can still see white smoke coming on full throttle (1/2 turn on LSN). The Savage kicks ass in 2nd Gear. I've never had a Nitro RC Car but this is already more power than I expected and I know there is more coming. I am through 3/4 of a Gallon now. I lost track of how many tanks I ran. But it's at about 3/4 Gal. I am not sure if should lean it out any further since it's already over the HPI's recommended limit.
Anyway, the other issue I have is my Idle. I can't get her to idle right. She always tries to engage. And the longer I run her, the more she engages at zero throttle. So I could have the Idle almost good in the beginning of a run and later it seems like its totally (!) off. (If i adjust it in the middle of a run it won't work for starting her back up when she is cold) But i can't get it perfect. If I lower the Idle Adjustment Screw her engine will die on me with the wheels still spinning. I can't even adjust the Trim on the Radio that far to even it out. I'm kinda clueless on that one. Thank god the LHS will reopen tomorrow. I'll be giving them a call during the day while I'm working to let them know im coming later that night to give them something to work on. (I get off at 5 and they close at 6) While I'm there I'm going to pickup some things, like some extra glow plugs, a temp gauge, some more fuel, a new antenna .... O yaddi yaddi yaddii.....

Oh yea, can I put fuel in the tank while she is running? Since the tank is pressurized I am not sure if that would be ok.

Are there any good Tool Bags/Boxes made for this? Maybe even a bag that can hold my truck and all my stuff that needs to with her.

alvinl

Try richening the LSN then idling it down just a tad bit. I was playing with mine yesterday and that's what I had to do in order to get the idle better. Now it idles forever and still has good punch at takeoff.

cohma

Hey, quick status: Ran it today for 1/2 hour and it effin went pretty good. It finally shifts into 3rd gear ant when it does....it's gone. I'm quite impressed. Anyway, i could not get rid off the Idle Problem yet. Don't have time for that today. I'll be working on her tomorrow. Just got a new workbench and a nice toolbox in the garage. I'll be settling there pretty soon. No more 'backporch table' work.


'

alvinl

Isn't that just the greatest feeling when it hits 3rd gear! Congrats on the new workbench. I am working on building a small work area in the basement.

cohma

Yes it is. It's like I am a little kid again and get all excited about my new toy. Not that I am that old (Mid 20s) but it sure reminds of that feeling when I was younger. Anyway, this may sound funny. But I can't wait until I get my next Truck. If I'd be getting it right now it would probably be a SS 4.6. I want to assemble one myself. It's probably the best learning experience you can get. Just like Linux, if anybody knows what I mean. I can't wait for my first (real!) offroad session. I found a very very big dirthill about 20 minutes from here. If you look it from the side it just looks like a real big ramp. Small incline (8-10% or so I would say) on one side and a cliff (probably about 60%) on then other side which about 40-50 feet tall. (It's big allright!) Looks way too tempting. [>:] But I would not be able to afford that jump right now. Maybe in a few weeks...If so, it will be video taped.

I'll catch you guys tomorrow night...