I want to start flying IMAC and am considering a couple of choices. I want to start smaller and with glow to keep costs and learning curve down. My two choices are:
1. Extreme Aircraft Yak ARF 68 in span with a YS 110
2. Goldberg Sukhoi ARF with a YS 140 sport.
Option 2 is a bit more costly but if it is a better solution then I would like to have opinions.
Experienced suggestions are welcome.
Thanks
Brian

I really don't know much about either plane, but I can tell you... go big and best-first! I have wasted thousands only to end up with a lot of planes I used for a short time. I have a Fiberclassics 2.6M Extra with a DA-100. If I saved all the money I wasted on smaller planes I could have 3 FC Extras! Just a little advice from a guy who wasted a lot of time and money to get where I am today (airplane wise).

Examples: YS 140DZ=$709.00 vs. DA 50 w/ muffler=$620.00
Golberg Sukhoi ARF= $319.00 vs. GP Wagstaff Extra=$399.00

Both airplanes can use the same radio setup and I have seen the GP Extra do very well in Basic IMAC. And for a small tidbit of info specific to the SW region... at the 4 contests I've been to, I haven't seen anyone with a plane less than 80cc in a class higher than Basic. I'd recommend the Wagstaff Extra instead of a glow engine plane. Plus the DA-50 is a sweet little engine. Oh, last thing...glow fuel=14.00 gallon...gas, $1.80. Or, best of all, save-save-save and get a Hangar 9 Extra and a ZDZ 80 or DA-100. You'll be glad you did.

These are my opinions based on my own personal experience (my .02).
Dave

I have to agree with mc130p_fe. For the price of the YS/Goldberg combo you listed you can have a better flying 50cc class (28% or so) aerobat, such as a Wild Hare 28% Extra or a Kangke 28% Laser 200 (I specifically mention these planes because I have both of them). The airframes are roughly $450 (including good hardware) and a 50cc gasoline engine will cost from $500 to $650 (including muffler). Used engines can be had for a little less. I spent $810 for my Laser 200 and Brison 3.2 with pitts muffler combo (both from third parties: the plane was NIB and the engine was used, bought here on RCU) and $1015 for my Extra (including hardware pack) and BME 50 with pitts muffler combo (the Extra was new from Wild Hare and the BME was used, bought here on RCU). Both combos were cheaper than the YS/Goldberg Sukhoi combo you mentioned. You'll get a sweet flying plane, and the savings in fuel costs will be huge! Good luck!

Listen to mc130p_fe.
THere is a LOT of wisdom in those words!

I have the Goldberg Sukhoi with a Moki 1.20 on it.

It's an OK airplane - but not great. It needs a 1.60 FX up front, it needed a fair amount of differential to get axial rolls, it pulls to the belly in left rudder knife edge - even thou I am a little nose heavy. If you want to stay with glow I would recomend the GP Gene Soucy Extra with a 1.60 FX, they seem to fly better than the Sukhoi.

What the other guys have told you is good advise - you really will save money in the long run with a DA50/Patty combo.

Sorry, I felt like jumping into this discussion.I agree with you guys to go for gas engine and the bigger plane. I'm heading sort of that way as well but this guy clearly states that he wants to keep the cost and the learning curve down. There's a big difference in cost if you crash a glow engine small aerobat or a 33% extra with DA 100. Also for big planes you need to purchase more expensive digital or coreless servos. Anyway, my point is, don't buy big stuff straight away. Get the feel of it with a smaller plane, learn some routines and once you feel comfortable you can always trade your plane and get something bigger afterwards. The truth is, gassers are more expensive but cheaper to run. It's hard to tell but I think such descission should be based upon your flying ability.

I am tired to hear that to be competitive, you must have the best flying airplane. Are we talking about basic here?

If it is basic we are talking about, it should be an entry class and we start to see 40% airplanes in basic. I can't imagine how bad I would feel flying a 40% and having "only" placed in second position behind the "TINY POOR FLYING" Goldberg Sukhoi. It is a shame to tell everybody they must have the best equipement.

Sooooo, assuming the Sukoi will fly better than the smaller Yak, you could then consider going straight to gas with a Patty or others mentioned in 50cc class. I would take extra care choosing servos, as a 50cc plane requires better servos than 140 glow IMO. We are back to higher prices then.

A good 140 size plane can fly very well. I have seen a 25% Cap 232 win advanced IMAC in some competitions.

Did I stir the pot enough ??

I pretty much agree with you 3D Joy. If you can't fly the sequence with a 120-size Sukhoi you won't be able to do it with a 40% either.

I'm not totally in agreement with you on the cost difference between a 25% glow and 28% gasser. I built my 28% Laser for $1700. The Goldberg Sukhoi and YS 140 will be an easy $1250 to build. The much higher cost of glow fuel vs. gasoline will make up the differencebefore you know it!

I'm not trying to push Brian into larger gasoline powered models, I just want him to see the cost really isn't that far off from a 1/4-scale glow model. And I think the difference is worth it.

Thanks, good advise.
OK you have convinced me. I now want to go with a 50cc size model. I think I will use a DA 50 but the question is what plane? I have heard bad things (quality wise) about the GP Patty Wagstaff 25%. What other 25-27% models can you recommend?
Thanks!
Brian

Check out www.aero-works.net. They are having a huge sale on their ARFs. I saw the 27% Ultimate and Katana for 595.00. I have the 31% Edge on a DA50 it is a good combination for Basic and Sportsman, but they are out of stock right now. I would go with the Ultimate, I have seen it fly and it really groves with a DA 50

Check out the 28% planes from wildhare and from Aerotech. Aerotech has a very nice 28% Velox that is 399.99 and it comes with a complete hardware set. Don't believe all of the things that you hear about the GP Patty Wagstaff. Just read some of the threads about it on here and you will see what a great plane it is. I have the GP Soucy and I wish that I had got the Patty instead. I have seen many people fly the patty and they fly great. One guy flies one with an OS 1.60 on it in my club and he likes it. I also know people who have 50cc gas on it and they fly great. My flying partner has a Wildhare extra 300 with a DA 50 on it and it is great also. I have been flying 1/4 scale glow planes for the last 8 month and just got my first gasser. It is a lanier 1/3 scale laser 200 with a 3W75 gasser on it. I picked the whole thing used for 500.00 from someone in my club that is not flying anymore. It was complete with JR digital servo's and all of the switches and batteries installed. All I had to do is install my receiver. I can't wait to fly it next weekend.

Rick

As I mentioned above I have both the Wild Hare 28% Extra and the Kangke 28% Laser 200 (they call it a Laser 2000). The craftmanship on both are very good. The Kangke Laser really surprised me. It's built pretty light but has reinforcement in all the places it needs it. My biggest complaint with the Laser is the use of CA hinges. The tail group is not airfoiled and the surfaces relatively thin, which makes it a little more work to install Robart Hinge Points. Other than that I really like the plane. My Extra is still in the box so I can't comment on much other than upon inspection it looks great! I look forward to getting it together. As far as the Aeroworks go I have heard a lot of complaints about them here on RCU. I here they are more money (like $200 more!) for an inferior plane. Good luck!

It would be nice to have a 28% plane with a gasser but if you want to go cheaper get the EF Yak-54 with the YS 1.10.. I have one.. Allthough I don't compete in IMAC the plane is very capable and has already won competitions.. I think I have $900-1000 in mine..

Woops saw that you did decide to go gas.. Thats ok. EF is getting 87" Yaks in soon, if not already.. They were tested with the DA-50..

IMAC ???????? It is a GREAT learning place to actually learn How to FLY a Model plane in stead of turning and burning Fun Fly style,,,Which by the way I love to do,,, But I have found out that IMAC ( WILL ) teach you how to use that left thumb ! and how to actually SEE that plane in flight . I have said before that Basic should have a wing span limmit of 80" or 50cc,,,The way I see it if you fly a 33% or larger plane you should be able to do the Basic stuff any way,,,and the guy's / gals that want to compete in basic and see what a Great sport IMAC is ,,Shouldn"t have to worry about competing against a 33% or larger plane for their first year and not have $2500 to ??? wrapped up in a plane for a part of our R/C sport they may not like .
The Basic class is an introductory class and it fuels the Fire for IMAC ..IMHOP

Fred,
Although I understand your position, I must disagree with the size matters statement. I fly in basic and I have a 35% extra. There are plenty of pilots that do as well if not better than me with smaller planes and there are pilots that have 40%ers that I can compete with or possibly out do. I have also seen pilots in intermediate fly with 73" 1/4 scale planes and win. All I am saying is that it is not the plane, but the pilot that controls the outcome of competition Scale Aerobatics. Fly the best plane you are comfortable flying and have fun.

Andy

Very few people can fly a straight line before competing. Basic should be the class of choice irrespective of plane size until you can fly the basic maneuvers on line and wind corrected. Moving up too soon is a very common mistake. I am one of those who made it, and have regretted it time and time again.

Low price: EF Yak gets my vote.
Mid price: H9 33% ARF (pick one) with a ZDZ-80 or BME-102 (get the engine used and save a lot of $$$).
Use coreless servos, they do not need to be digital (go check the equipment list for the last TOC to get ideas).

Burn a lot of gas and above all, have fun.

Well put, Crashmeister. Just don't leave out DA in the engine selections. The 50cc works well with planes up to about 20 lbs and the 100 would be great for the 33%-35% sizes. I flew SCAT with a H9 Extra with a Brisson 6.4 and had plenty of power. And definatley Digitals are nice, but not needed.

I highly recommend the Wild Hare products. I just received my Wild Hare 28% Extra 300LX and it is a very well built and fairly priced ARF with flexibility on which engine is used. I'm using a converted Zenoah G62 and it mounted up nicely but you can use the lighter 50cc gas engines available from DA or ZDZ with no problems. The construction of this plane looks to be top notch!

Hello,

I did get a chance to fly the Aerotech Velox ARF and it presents well and flyes real steady and will draw a straight line forever. Snaps stopped no over rotation and seems to be a nice value as compared to the competition. Somthing to think about while your looking.

Thanks

Dave Miller P.A.

I am starting a 1/4 laser200 with a roto25 gas. I hope this will be a good starter. Laser $300 roto25 $365 hitec HS-475 servos.

Of the two you mentioned I vote for the EF Yak with a YS 110 Sport not the DZ. If you want to spend a bit more and go gas the GP Wagstaff is an excellent choice. Solid in the air and look at the huge threads and you'll see that it is a quality plane at $399. I have had two, flown a little competition and it is perfect for Basic. What's way more important than the plane is that you practice ALOT. Find someone who competes at a higher level and have them coach you and enter every contest you can, you'll improve tremendously from the experiance.

Hmmm, who was it back there that said go with a big plane straight up.

Just got myself a compARF, 3.1m SuperExtra on the way.
It's my first gasser!. It was a hard choice for me. Initially I thought I would start off with a 50 cc size model, but then started thiniking to myself it wont be long until I want a bigger one.

Now, whilst waiting for the model to be delivered I am starting to panic!, I think I've gone about it the wrong way, and should have maybe started off a with a smaller model.

Oh well, I will let you all know how it goes. Probably take me 5 years to save for the servo's now.I have a bunch of Hitec 5945's, but there's no way I am using Hitec in this model. I will set it up with JR gear, like the manual reccomends.

OKay happy flying all.
Cya

Not trying to start a war here but Hitec servos are fine in any model. They are good servos. Probably not as good as JR but certainly good enough. I know too many people running 5945s with no problems to warrant a switch to JR. But if you can afford it, go for it. No matter what you do, be sure to use 2 servos per elevator half due to recent flutter problems I've read about on the super extra. Good luck.

Ryan

Well I find the content of this thread and many like it very disheartening and discouraging. I was entertaining thoughts of trying IMAC this coming spring. I am in a position that I am unable to obtain nothing bigger that a 1/4 scale plane with a glow engine, but I keep hearing that I will not be able to be competitive with that type of setup. I think that maybe there should be a 1/4 scale and lower class so that the playing field is leveled by flying ability rather pocketbook. Too bad, it may have been fun.

Dang_it!