Initiating Spin Entry
07-20-2005 | 08:22 PM
#27
RE: Initiating Spin Entry
ORIGINAL: aresti2004
This is not correct. The IMAC rules actually say that the wing must fall in the direction of the intended rotation AS THE NOSE falls. So to say that the nose must fall first is not correct. Ideally it is simultaneous. In fact, if the nose falls prior to the rotation starting that is a downgrade for a forced entry (1 point per 10 degrees).
Please see page F&JG-42 for the discussion of this in the rules.
ORIGINAL: chipwill
IMAC rules state that the nose must drop before rotation starts. Some planes will do this on their own while others like straight wing Edges hang on forever.
IMAC rules state that the nose must drop before rotation starts. Some planes will do this on their own while others like straight wing Edges hang on forever.
Please see page F&JG-42 for the discussion of this in the rules.
Spins - No visible stall, or snap / barrel-roll entry.
Most people equate a "visible stall" as the nose falling, when instead they should be looking for a break when the nose and wing fall together. On aircraft with a light wing loading and a high idle, the nose will not fall much - add a slightly aft CG and its zero city. Very hard to interpret from the judging chair.
...dont ask me how I know.
Roger
07-20-2005 | 08:56 PM
#28
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From: Bucyrus,
OH
RE: Initiating Spin Entry
ORIGINAL: bigsport
I have a similar problem with my WM patty. It will just hang there the almost go into a elevator before it stalls. Then when it does stall it drops like a rock. I almost lost it a few times when I didn't do a big enough immelman. I had to bail out after 1 1/2 turns as it would have spin to the ground. VERY SCAREY....................
I have a similar problem with my WM patty. It will just hang there the almost go into a elevator before it stalls. Then when it does stall it drops like a rock. I almost lost it a few times when I didn't do a big enough immelman. I had to bail out after 1 1/2 turns as it would have spin to the ground. VERY SCAREY....................
I just about spun it into the ground a month ago, experimenting with elevator travel. I stalled the tail attempting to get out of the spin... like an idiot. I had just about given up when something made me firewall the throttle, the tail dipped down into the corn and I hovered up out my predicament. Not sure how close I got to the ground but the dust was flying.. I had to land immediately because my hands were shaking so bad... heh. Not too long ago I knocked about 1.5lbs of weight off the plane and the spins are much less nerve-wracking, but it still isn't comfortable.
07-20-2005 | 11:53 PM
#29
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From: Newcastle, AUSTRALIA
RE: Initiating Spin Entry
jhord,
Yeah I let go of the sticks with half a turn to go. What engine are you running? Mine is a little under powered at the moment, but I'm looking at replacing the zenoah G38 soon. How do you fly with 30 degrees of elevator? Mine is set at about 15-20 degrees on low rates, and about 45 degrees on hi rates. Mine will enter the spin either way depends on where the wind is coming from and the direction on the rudder used to fly a straight line.
Yeah I let go of the sticks with half a turn to go. What engine are you running? Mine is a little under powered at the moment, but I'm looking at replacing the zenoah G38 soon. How do you fly with 30 degrees of elevator? Mine is set at about 15-20 degrees on low rates, and about 45 degrees on hi rates. Mine will enter the spin either way depends on where the wind is coming from and the direction on the rudder used to fly a straight line.
07-21-2005 | 09:01 AM
#30
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From: Bucyrus,
OH
RE: Initiating Spin Entry
I'm flying it with a Brison 40cc. It has adequate power but I wish it had a 50cc in the nose, then I wouldn't have to fly at full throttle so much to make the manuevers big enough. But the Brison is a good engine for sure. As far as the elevator throw goes, yeah that's a lot on low rate, I know. I don't know the exact throw in degrees because my meter is scale-based, but it's around 25-30 degrees, high rate is full throw, about 45 degrees. I use a good bit of exponential even on low rate, so that softens the response. The way I prefer to fly I don't move the sticks a whole bunch, so my low rates tend to be higher than normal. That does set me up for trouble tho when I get in a panic situation and my thumbs go dumb. 
IE I have to watch I don't snap out.
IE I have to watch I don't snap out.
07-24-2005 | 02:38 AM
#32
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From: Newcastle, AUSTRALIA
RE: Initiating Spin Entry
Do you guys have any trouble flying a straight line from the end of the immelman to the stall break?
My extra seems to loose a lot of height as I roll out of the immelman and pull the throttle of to slow up for the spin. It is mainly when I roll out of the immelman where it is most noticable.... Maybe I'm not quick enough to get onto the elevator? Any ideas?
My extra seems to loose a lot of height as I roll out of the immelman and pull the throttle of to slow up for the spin. It is mainly when I roll out of the immelman where it is most noticable.... Maybe I'm not quick enough to get onto the elevator? Any ideas?
07-24-2005 | 03:20 AM
#33
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From: Bloomington, IL
RE: Initiating Spin Entry
The power reduction should be after the 1/2 roll and after a short straight line is drawn.
That way you'll be reducing power with wings level instead of reducing power in a roll or bank when you have less lift to work with.
Try that.
That way you'll be reducing power with wings level instead of reducing power in a roll or bank when you have less lift to work with.
Try that.
07-24-2005 | 08:10 AM
#35
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From: St. Martinville,
LA
RE: Initiating Spin Entry
Maybe try doing the half roll just prior to being level. In other words roll early. If you are waiting until level and are half rolling slowly with little or no rudder the nose will drop.
Ryan
Ryan
07-24-2005 | 11:54 AM
#36
RE: Initiating Spin Entry
ORIGINAL: jhord
Finally I have found some people flying the WM Patty! (at first I hated the thing but now I'm really starting to like it) Mine does the exact same thing when entering spins. I have found that throttling back before rolling out of the immelman helps slow the plane a lot. I set the plane up with quite a bit of elevator on low rate (maybe 30 degrees) and this has helped enter spins. On the approach I start to breath in a little elevator until the nose comes up, and a wee little throttle too. Sort've like a mini-harrier. Just before the plane starts to mush down I give it full elevator, which drops the nose. The plane is almost stopped at this point. It always falls to the left so I just feed in normal inputs from there. And you guys are right, the thing drops fast. I'm having to neutralize the sticks at about 1.25-1.5 turns into the spin. You?
I just about spun it into the ground a month ago, experimenting with elevator travel. I stalled the tail attempting to get out of the spin... like an idiot. I had just about given up when something made me firewall the throttle, the tail dipped down into the corn and I hovered up out my predicament. Not sure how close I got to the ground but the dust was flying.. I had to land immediately because my hands were shaking so bad... heh. Not too long ago I knocked about 1.5lbs of weight off the plane and the spins are much less nerve-wracking, but it still isn't comfortable.
ORIGINAL: bigsport
I have a similar problem with my WM patty. It will just hang there the almost go into a elevator before it stalls. Then when it does stall it drops like a rock. I almost lost it a few times when I didn't do a big enough immelman. I had to bail out after 1 1/2 turns as it would have spin to the ground. VERY SCAREY....................
I have a similar problem with my WM patty. It will just hang there the almost go into a elevator before it stalls. Then when it does stall it drops like a rock. I almost lost it a few times when I didn't do a big enough immelman. I had to bail out after 1 1/2 turns as it would have spin to the ground. VERY SCAREY....................
I just about spun it into the ground a month ago, experimenting with elevator travel. I stalled the tail attempting to get out of the spin... like an idiot. I had just about given up when something made me firewall the throttle, the tail dipped down into the corn and I hovered up out my predicament. Not sure how close I got to the ground but the dust was flying.. I had to land immediately because my hands were shaking so bad... heh. Not too long ago I knocked about 1.5lbs of weight off the plane and the spins are much less nerve-wracking, but it still isn't comfortable.
I posted earlier that the 2 turn spin is always a big pucker for me. It's the only maneuver that makes me nervous. The rest of them are standard stuff that we fly everyday anyway.
I'm trying to fly my whole sequence at a slightly higher altitude. It keeps my spin exit around 75' off the weeds.
JHORD:
What does your weigh?
I just about dumped mine yesterday. I was doing an inverted flat-spin and just forgot to release the elevator. Dumb mistake. I can't beleive I did that. I had let go of the ailerons and rudder, but hung onto the elevator for some reason. It was kinda doing an inverted elevator--and very close to snapping. I managed to let go of the elevator and fly it out inverted about 20' off the ground. I had to firewall the throttle to get some airspeed up and get it flying again. I landed immediately after that. My hands were shaking so bad, I couldn't get the wing bolts off for almost 10 minutes.[X(]
07-24-2005 | 09:02 PM
#37
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From: Bucyrus,
OH
RE: Initiating Spin Entry
My bathroom scale is horribly inconsistent, but from what I can tell my WM weighs 13.5lb dry, 14.5 wet. Setup, Brison 40cc, Lipoly on RX and ign with regulators, no pilot, spinner or wheel pants. Flies better after the weight loss but it still sorta "heavy." Downlines are the worst... probably not enough prop braking with a 20-8 on it. I spectated my first IMAC meet this weekend, and from what I can tell my WM will not cut it in competition, beyond the basic class. That's ok by me because I'm planning on building a new 50cc plane anyway.
07-26-2005 | 05:28 AM
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From: Newcastle, AUSTRALIA
RE: Initiating Spin Entry
Yeah me too, I'm going to use the WM patty in the basic class until I get my new 50cc plane. I just don't think the G38 powered WM patty is up to any more than basic. Mine weighs in at 15.84lbs. If it was powered by a DA50 it would be a great IMAC plane. At 13.5lbs yours should be a great plane to fly.
