ORIGINAL: rosek007

... again jr...feel the difference in your wallet...
kevin

ORIGINAL: rosek007

Vf84, I can't take complete credit for that one, I heard it someplace I'm just repeating it...funny as heck though...

Invert09 maybe I'm thinking you're upset or yelling cause of the caps...maybe...otherwise, were cool...

Wb1 I after my last radio crash I had a few guys surround my plane one with the logger and after they laughed and oh crap this and how does it even work with this that, and this is after they hook it up out of the plane!!! I was too upset to even check I just ordered my 12fg and started to pull the jr equipment and give away...
Kevin

ORIGINAL: warbird_1

dumb question to all.... did anyone use a data logger after the crash to see if there was a hold/lockout? now i know the system has to maintain power for the DL to be able to give you data , but some guys were saying they walked over to the plane and everything seemed to work fine after the crash.

ORIGINAL: invert0914
...and I was told by a JR rep to only fly with three recievers or your playing with fire.

ORIGINAL: invert0914


Great question. In the moment I walked up and shut off the plane. But it had 2 4200 duralite batteries at 8.1 volts each going into a turbo regulater and box. Also had reps look at my setup and all thumbs up. The plane has no binding servos and was flown 3 more days at the Nall with no issues during regular event hours and many more since. 20 Minutes after mine went into failsafe twice a C130 went into failsafe on final and flat out was totaled. At all pilot meetings at the Nall it was made clear DO NOT TURN ON YOUR TRANSMITTERS UNLESS FLYING do to the 35 limit. I took my chances after 5 oclock and almost paid the price. The 3d line was limited to 5 stations for this reason. Its clear at big events, and I was told by a JR rep to only fly with three recievers or your playing with fire. AS far as issues at the field I have had no issues with my JR equipment. Again the system has holes and the JR Nation will be at rest when Horizon just tells everyone what they are and what we need to do to fix it. Thats all.

ORIGINAL: rcsws
I must be stupid here- is it not possible that in some areas there is more 2.4 stray signals in the air that could cause interference? I know certain flying sites have problems on certain old freq channels. Our club has a corner that is the Burmuda triangle. I can be assured that once out of every ten to twenty pass throughs in this area I will get hit on 72Mhz. I have not been hit on 2.4 in this area. We know there is something local that thorows a great enough signal out to cause issues at times.

Is it not possible that there is enough garbage in the air that at times the system may just go crazy? I know they are suppose to have this selective hearing (matching), but if you yell loud enough (throw enough garbage signle in the air) even folks with selective hearing have to stop and listen The problem is evrybody wants to blame the equipment and not look at the total picture.

ORIGINAL: rosek007

There are some guys that don't use it because they don't trust it, they will crash/land after a lockout pop that thing on and it says there are/were no issues, that's what i read on flying giants, again my experience was waaaaaaay different though it said i had issues lots of issues...

Those are satellite rx guys, jr reccomends using minimum of 3 or you're on your own.
Kevin

ORIGINAL: dougclind

Yes, that's possible. It's also possible that there is a hardware/firmware glitch. Until somebody makes an extraordinarily thorough effort to nail down the problem (or problems) we just have to guess. It's harder to clobber a spread spectrum signal but it obviously can be done with enough power. But it won't happen because of somebody's cordless phone or home WiFi router. Well ... I should say that it SHOULDN'T happen. But there are evil gremlins out there, I'm convinced of it!

ORIGINAL: rosek007
ok since you two refuse to watch the videos posted the major issue with jr/spectrum is they lock and stay on to 2 channels...these two are often too close in the 2.4 spectrum so when for eg. someone turns on a 2.4ghz device that interferes with one channel it bleeds over on the other, henceforth signal loss/lockout...i'm definatley not and expert and even i know this...watch the videos or do i need to post them again?
Kevin

ORIGINAL: dougclind


No dude. I've seen the video and you have it a bit wrong when you say they are often too close. Very rarely (in his words) they are closer than that reviewer thinks is good. As a matter of fact he couldn't demonstrate it at the time, it was so rare.
I'll admit that that is good info and it seems like he has a point but I'd like to hear from JR on that.

Now what he did was throw on a very powerful video signal, a 600 mW video signal right on top of one of the 2 ''channels'' the JR was using and the system continued to operate. He thought that the JR would NOT have kept working if the 2 channels were very close to each other. He thought. He didn't prove it. As a matter of fact you HAVE to prove that because spread spectrum technology gives you some immunity to noise on top of your signal. That's why you spread it out and his spectrum analyzer showed you that the JR signal was spread out over about 100 MHz of bandwidth! Just as a comparison, a regular VHF TV channel (like channels 2, 4, etc) use a 6 MHz bandwidth. So his video transmitter was sending out more than ten times the width of an NTSC TV channel!

I don't expect that we're going to run into anything like that kind of interference unless someone has intentionally created a jammer to knock down airplanes!! I'm not up to speed on everything that's allowed in the 2.4 GHz band but I just don't believe we have that kind of stuff out there to worry about. And we don't really know how close the JR DSM2 channels actually get to each other. He couldn't demonstrate it. So we don't know what JR has designed into the system. So you're TOTALLY off base when you try to say that the reviewer has explained the lockout problem. And I reiterate, this problem is not limited to JR and DSM2. I've seen it with Futaba at Joe Nall this year.

One last thing I want to emphasize. Just because a strong signal is right on top of a DSM2 channel doesn't necessarily mean that it will clobber the digital spread spectrum signal. Think about your FM radio in comparison to an AM radio. Which one is susceptible to noise like lightning bursts or power line junk? It's AM. That's because FM uses a form of broad band noise reduction. It's sensitive to frequency and phase shifts, not amplitude shifts. The FM signal is greatly spread out like the DSM2 signal. I believe it's going to take an awful lot to jam a DSM2 receiver. That reviewer didn't cover that aspect of DSM2 at all and like I said, the JR continued to operate in the presence of his strong, broad, video signal.

ORIGINAL: psb667

http://en.futaba.co.jp/industrial/frh_sd07tu/index.html If they tell me modems can cause interference I believe it.

ORIGINAL: rosek007

seriously...you really believe the statement you just made... I dozed off when you wrote ''i'd like to hear from jr on that'', at that point i figured you were dillusional and one of those folks who want proof that there are actually lockouts on some milliwat meter at 4 corners of the field and blah, blah, blah same old it's not gonna happen to me, lockouts are unlikely..., seems to me you think you have more info than the reps...why else would you waste your time posting that junk ???
kevin

ORIGINAL: dougclind

@tyrick69

Well, ummm, I guess now we're arguing about whether electrics are more susceptible to failure than non-electrics. I'll give you this one point, I don't know squat about heli's and apparently you do an awful lot of heli flying so you should know about gear meshing problems loading down a battery.

Apparently I don't fly electrics? Gee, that's all I fly. Been flying Strykers and EDF jets for about 2 years. But then if you'd read my profile or my previous posts you would have known that. And though I don't claim to know squat about the particulars of stalled digital servos, I have picked up on the fact that they have a bigger current drain than analogs. But then I don't know anybody who flies digital servos in parkflyers so I wouldn't know. They seem ridiculously expensive.

And as far as not knowing much about electronics, I guess you're right. Other than being an amateur radio operator since 1963, amateur extra class, and having a degree in electrical engineering from Purdue, and being an electronic hobbyist having home brewed my own transmitters and 1000 watt linear amplifiers, and being immersed in communications and electronics in the Navy for several years ... other than that I don't know much about electronics or soldering. You could have picked up on that from my previous posts on this thread too but I guess you don't go in much for reading.

Overall I have to kind of agree with lv2fly. You talk a lot about possibilities almost as if they were probabilities. Seems to me like he pretty much nailed it so I won't reiterate his points.

In my experience, limited as it may be to electric planes, there is some unknown (or undisclosed) failure mode(s) with our 2.4GHz equipment which occurs infrequently. But it does occur. And that's more or less the topic of this thread. I fly JR and I'm not about to junk it but I would like to see this issue brought out into the open by the manufacturers.

ORIGINAL: tyrick69

You're right, I didn't bother to Google your entire resume before responding to your post but you asked the question.
''Hey Mr. genius technician, how do you explain the failures with electric planes? There are no switches, no 6V batteries, no ''binding'' issues (what's with that?) and the batteries are ALWAYS delivering good voltage to the receivers because the motor will cutoff long before it could ever possibly drop below what's needed by the receiver.'' and then made a comment about never running out of available power due to the ''honkin fat lipos'' we're using in these electric setups. I apologize if I offended you but your comments sounded like they were coming from someone with limited knowledge as to how all electric setups actually work. Surely with your degree in Electrical Engineering you understand that it doesn't matter how big your ''honkin fat lipo'' actually is, if your ESC/BEC combination is not up to the task, you're going to have some problems. I was merely pointing out potential points of failure in an all electric system because you didn't seem to give them any consideration. I'm not ''making excuses'' as some would claim and I could care less if you fly JR, Futaba, Hitec, etc... I have no brand loyalty to JR. All I was trying to do was share my experiences with the system that have thus far been positive. It seems that some do not care about the success stories and feel they have nothing to learn from them as their minds are already made up.

ORIGINAL: warbird_1

tyrick, i talked to our local hobby shop owner about that . first i'd like to say he's a very knowable person and know's what he's selling. he was saying he saw issues with cheap 15.00 Chinese speed controllers causing brown out issues because they were just low quality. It's like buying a motorcycle helmet. 10.00 helmet for a 10.00 head

ORIGINAL: dougclind


Well I guess you're pretty good at dozing off Kevin because you apparently don't have much in the way of reading, spelling, or discussion skills. Dozing skills seem to work for you pretty well though.

So, like, what's the matter? Are you all upset that I mentioned that Futaba, your new love, also experiences similar problems? Hey, I understand that you're carrying a grudge because you lost a couple of planes and frankly I don't blame you for that. But don't start calling people ''dillusional'' (sic) because they want to give the manufacturer a chance to say something. I don't know how many times I have to repeat this to every loudmouth on this forum but I have lost a plane to a JR lockup too which you should know if you would bother to read posts before shooting off your mouth.

You know what your problem is Kevin? You're still really mad at losing the planes. You totally blame JR and you can't get back at them because they're a big corporation. So you carry this little vendetta against them, dumping on them every chance you get and heaven help ANYONE who even SEEMS like they may be sticking up for them or trying to give them the benefit of the doubt. So you're being exceedingly insulting to me for no reason whatsoever. I mean what is this ''you think you have more info than the reps'' crap? Where do you get off posting that kind of garbage statement? You think I'm trying to show you up as a know-nothing little twerp or something? I'm just trying to analyze the situation and not let my emotions carry me away. Unlike you who seems to be having an apoplectic fit because not everyone wants to jump on the hate JR bandwagon. Brother, chill out and stop with the insulting crap because you'll get it tossed right back in your face.

And what reps are you talking about Kevin? I don't see any reps posting on this thread, or anywhere for that matter.

And lastly, tell me Kevin, exactly what part of my post did you consider junk? Explain that clearly if you will. You can't, because all you have is ''I hate JR. JR is junk. Your planes will crash if you fly JR.'' You misinterpreted the video from RC Model Reviews and you didn't listen when he said that DSM2 was a good system. He did say that, you know, and on more than one occasion. All you heard was what you wanted to hear.

Like I said, you know what? I totally understand being tee'd off at JR if you lost planes. I get that. I was pretty mad when my beautiful, brand new F15 turned to junk 30 seconds into its maiden flight. But I'm not going to take it out on other posters. Don't go throwing crap at me because I'm not on the ''kill JR'' bandwagon.