a good friend of mine just stopped by and I loaned him a pint of sig nitrate.I rarely use it much except on scale builds.he said the hobby shop cant seem to get any from sig..and my other hobby shop I called got some from a company called brodaK,. is there a problem getting this stuff??

what other sources beside sig are there for rc dope.?years ago I used randolph..

I'm dopin right now. I've thought about trying the brodak stuff on a test wing to see how it does. I've not heard any negatives about it.
Edwin

I have used Brodak many times, both clear and colored, and it is all very good. Just as good as Sig in my opinion. Give it a try I think you'll like it.

http://www.brodak.com/shop.php?CategoryID=271

I'd lay money down they all buy from Randolphs and thin or tint to their needs.

Go here. http://www.aircraftspruce.com/menus/...hcoatings.html

I used to buy mine through an FBO/Piper Dealer but they've all gone to the big dollar biz jet stuff.

Ray W.

Dittos here about Brodak. The solid colors have a lot of pigment, so be sure to purchase a lot of thinner too. I was thinning as much as 3:1 recently to get it to flow nicely with my cheap HVLP gun.

As for nitrate clear, I have always purchased Randolph brand from Aircraft Spruce, [link=http://www.aircraftspruce.com/menus/cs/randolphcoatings_nitratedopetintednon.html]here[/link], and the nitrate thinner, [link=http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/cspages/randnitratethinner.php]here[/link]. A two quarts of dope and a gallon of thinner seems expensive up front, but it lasts for three or four models for me. YMMV.

F&M Enterprises (817-279-8045 0900 to 1600 Central time) has nitrate and butyrate dope in quarts and gallons along with nitrate and butyrate thinner. One caution about ordering dope, be sure to ask the supplier if they are going to charge you a HAZMAT FEE. We do NOT. Also, for those of you still using Japanese silk, silkspan and linen, you may want tautening dope. Most of what is sold for the hobby industry is non-tatuening butyrate dope. If you use tautening dope on polyester it will shrink away from the fabric causing it to split crack chip and peel.

Both the Nitrate and the Butyrate should be thinned 1 to 1 with the appropriate thinner.

For those of you familiar with the Stits Lite product line, the dope can be mixed in the Poly Fiber colors also.

Just call and ask for a Randolph color card and price sheet or email [email protected]. We DO advertise on RC universe for those of you spring loaded to the flame position.

Randolph and Aircraft Spruce is the only choice for me.

Non diluted in the container at purchase time. Need 3 imes less coats.
and over here1/3 the price of the LHS.

Conclusion 9 times less cost and only 1/3 the labor.

One quart clear nitrate, one quart clear butyrate, one quart nitrate thinner, one quart butyrate thinner, one quart white butyrate.

At he LHS $152.00
Aircraf Spuce $52.00
$100.00 difference and 1/3 the work.

Zor

Re Chip Mull comments: both Brodak and Sig nitrate dope have plasticizers and I have heard that Brodak's has more than Sig's. As mentioned above, that can be good or bad, depending. Silk from Thai Silks is pre-shrunk and absolutely needs tautening dope (no plasticizer) and even then it takes several coats before it starts to tighten up. If you used Sig or Brodak, I don't think you would ever get out the sags and wrinkles. I used tautening dope from Aircraft Spruce and it worked if put on wet and stretched as much as possible. But Dharma silk is not pre-shrunk, and non-tautening (plasticized) dope should work fine. That's what I will try in the future.

Jim

In my neck of the woods (Coastal South Carolina) humidity is a big problem. The quart of blush retardant is a must. Fortunatly, I use it in the lieu of thinners. Takes over 3 months to gas off and loose that wonderful new plane smell.

I learned that butyrate in the can sealed will not last a few years without exploding into a black oooz. Nitrate sealed has made it 10 years but the opened can made it but the blue tint is now brown. Still works though.

Pic of my Fleet covered in super shrink coverite and Nitrate clear with Tennessee Red and Diana Cream thinned to spray consistancy. Painted in humid cold winter of South Carolina with lots of retarder in the mix. Took a quart of Randolphs for each color.


Ray W.

you getting some special price break here?
i mean 5 qts for 52 bucks?................sorry, but when i priced those materials they were waaay more than 52 bucks.

Non tautening Nitrate tinted sells for $14 a quart at Spruce. It is very thick and one would have to thin to be able to work with it and expect it to penetrate. So, a quart thinned will net a half gallon of dope.

The HAZMAT fees are just a ripoff but no way out of it. It's a UPS thing I'm told. My order arrives with wide cellophane tape over the lids and wah lah...

What he said all the way...

Bob

so you too have a source for 5 qts of the same materials for 52 bucks?.................man i wanna know this guy

Hello summerwind,

I wish you would have shown where you priced the dope.
If it was at a hobby store then of course it was a lot more expensive and you were or would have bought diluted product. like I experienced.

See the post where another fellow bought Randolph dope for $14.00 a quart.

Three quarts of dope $14.00 x 3 = $42.00
Two quarts of thinner $5.00 x 2 = $10.00
Toral $52.00

I am not here to argue wih anyone.
I know what Ipaid and as you pay attention to the thread you find someone else reporting this kind of pricing.

Have a great day,

Zor

Thanks for your posting E-Gap ___

I go to Aircraft Spruce and I ask "how much is this? and they give me a total price of $52.00 and I take it home.

It was the first time I had gone and bought anything from that business. I was referred to them by a fellow in the forum.

They mainly service people who fly small full size airplanes. By full size airplanes I refer to small airplanes that carry people such as J3 Cubs, Stinsons, Citabrias, Aeronca Champs, Etc . . .

They also have a shop where people can work on their own build of full size small airplanes or are putting together full size airplane kits. Their experts are there to help and advise.
Many are EAA members (Experimental Aircraft Associain).

I am not advertising them; just reporting my experience.

Zor

Who RU referring to ?

Nothing like that old school method of mixing talcum powder and clear dope to seal wood, smooth like you've never witnessed

I also get my wood from Spruce. Aircraft quality. The smallest stock is the rib cap material for homebuilts. I use it in my large scale building.

Airega...sometimes the old ways are still the best ways.

Ray W. (aka Aero Gloss devotee)

It has been a while for me: I forgot the difference between Nitrate and Butyrate Dope???

"If you used Sig or Brodak, I don't think you would ever get out the sags and wrinkles."

I've been using Dharma's 5mm Habotai and covering dry. 3 thinned coats of Sig nitrate to fill the weave some, then 2/3 coats of Supercoat and its tight as a drum.

Since this follows my comment it seems to imply some sort of dilution. We sell Randolph dope to full scale builders and is "Non diluted in the container at purchase time." It's the very same product as Aircraft spruce so I don't know where the 3 times less labor comes from and all Randolph dealer prices are should be the same. After checking the previous Aircraft Spruce link, ours is pennies less but I wasn't going to mention it.

There must be some sort of RC UNiverse math I am not aware if here. "Conclusion 9 times less cost and only 1/3 the labor."

Always ask about shipping and HAZMAT FEES.

We DON'T CHARGE HAZMAT.

This was exactly what I said about Thai Silks vs. Dharma. You quoted what I said about Thai Silks, which is pre-shrunk. Dharma, as I said, is not, so it shrinks.

So to repeat, if you use Thai Silk with Sig or Brodak, you probably won't be able to get it taut. Dharma is a different matter because it is not pre-shrunk.

Jim

You only need Nitrate Dope if you are covering with Polyester. the Nitrate is trying to establish a chemical bond to the fabric, then the Butyrate goes on top of the Nitrate. Nitrate is very explosive. The pictures of the Hindenburg burning is mostly pictures of Nitrate burning. There were lots of thoughts on ways to save weight on full scale planes. Some folks even painted the entire aircraft in Nitrate then Nitrate with silver powder in it for UV protection and the top coat was only enamel. Of course it cracked and they didn't really save any weight.

I have a question about formulations. It is my understanding that the dope of today is not compatible with the dope of yesterday (15+ years ago). I was told that the formulation was changed to meet some EPA mandate. I'm told that the new formula will lift the old formula when trying to make a patch repair.
So I'd like to know if this is in fact true and if so does it apply to both Nitrate and Butyrate dopes.

All the best,

Konrad

Hello everyone (that includes all readers),

There seem to be a bit of confusion developing in this thread about aircraft dope.

NOTE: I am not in the business of selling dope. I am just an old addict of building and flying model airplanes for more years than I like to realize.

I will follow this posting with some of my experience over the years.
The following postings will include some of the previous postings by others inserting what I have observed in a practicle way of using dope as well as some comments.

I am not telling anyone what to do or how to do it. I do not try to order anyone around.
I am only talking about what I have done.
Just do it the way that makes sense to you and makes you comfortable in your work.

and enjoy ___

Zor