Right on, they are working on a 1/4 scale PT-19 which I am waiting for. My favorite kit models come from Balsa USA, and I support them:-)

Gerry

Thank you Dave you are right, of course.

I am a builder who also has some arfs but I am sick and tired of people whining about "were have all the kits gone..." If you think there are no kits available: you are wrong. Not to mention plan services, and laser cutting services that will cut the wood for you. All this threads do is bring the pro-arfs crowd facing the anti-arfs. This is about having fun doing whatever YOU like. Not about pushing somebody else into doing what you like. Like all the moronic arguments about slimers, gassers and electrics. Which is best: the one you like the most is the best.

We live in a market economy, so forget finding a lot of kits in stock (not hot potatoes these days). But if you read this, you heard about the Internet! Did ya? OK, news for ya: You can buy things on line. I swear. Among those things, you can buy wooden kits. So hold the whining.

Maybe we need a COMPREHENSIVE thread about all the kits, plan services (Ziroli, RC magazines, etc.) and wood cutters available for those less enlightened.

Gerry

Hi kids!

Guess what we're going to do now.

We're going to read the first post in this thread and then get it back on topic.

I have edited and deleted many of the previous posts in an attempt to keep things civil here.

Builders like to build, ARFers don't or don't care to or don't have time to - BUT WE ALL LIKE TO FLY!

So let's stop the bashing.

i have built kits,i have scratch built from plans,i have bought foamies,i have bought arfs, i love it all !!!. i would like to see the arf manufacture's come out with builders kits. at one time a while ago there was this option with some of the better known arf manufacture's. it seems to be no longer, i guess because of the recouping of tooling costs you can get more for a finished plane (arf) than you can for a box of wood??? there are still a lot of great tried and true kits out there to be had, but i would like to see some new kid on the block. like a yak 54 90-120

I just realized that I have kits I forgot I had.

I just realize even before ARFs we had Prima Donnas in the hobby,, some things will never change

WOW, 6 pages and deleted post! I always miss the good ones...

There is no doubt that kits have gone by the way side and it all comes down to the dollar, plain and simple...
If a company is not making money, they have to make changes or they will be no more.. This isn't a question on what is better (Arf's or kits), it's what will make a company money...
I am 41 years old and built my first kit when I was 11, back then that's how you did it if you wanted to fly, you built it or paid someone to do it for you.
I myself like arf's, it gives me the option of paying someone to do it for me if I don't have the time. I just wish that I could keep my money I spend in the USA, but that goes way farther then the plane. I would have to guess that 90% of the stuff we buy for this hobby is made out of the country, if not more...

I doubt that we will ever see kits come back like it was 25+ years ago. The reason is simple, it's the generation! The new generation knows the hobby like it is now and guess what, they like it just the way it is... As the older generation slips away, the new one gets stronger and stronger, it's just the way life is..
How many can remember their dad saying " back when I was your age", or "when I was a kid". I bet everyone reading this can relate to that..
The hobby did change just like everything else does, you can either embrace it and move forward, or not, it's your choice as a person...
If a plane you are after isn't made as a kit no more, make one from scratch.. For me, I will build kits I like and build from scratch if there isn't a kit. But you can bet that when I show up at the field on a Sunday, there will be a arf we me as well..

Jimbo

<span>The only reason ARF's were even brought into this kit thread was to suggest that they are the reason kits are not as abundant as they used to be. So it was very relevant. Then a few defensive grumpy kit guys thought it was the ARF guys doing their </span>typical <span>ARF vs. kit routine. And off it went. LOL</span>

Maybe you can try scratch building. A little more work, but still has the same sense of accomplishment.
Here is a good example of something that is easy to build and fun to fly: http://www.modelairplanenews.com/FA22Raptor

It's posts like the arrogant sounding one above that normally starts the fight and gets the Mods involved.

In every "There's no kits" thread normally somewhere on the first page or two of posts some troll just has to start running down Arf's and Arf' guys. It's like clock work.

The above post could easily be construed as a group attack.

If you want to build solely from kits then by all means have a nut. But please refrain from running down those that do not share your opinion.

At 200' and 75 mph no one can tell which it is anyway.

Yes this is a "Kit Builders" forum, doesn't mean we as ARF guys can't post here. Kit builders don't own it though it seems some think otherwise.

Tim

PS,

I have about 20 kits hoarded to build one day when I retire, I buy them when I find one I want.

I love driving my corvette! I didn't build one piece on it and even prefer to pay others to maintain it, but I sure do love driving it! Just don't tell anyone it's an ARD!

Kurt

I scratch built a few planes and have built many, many kits. I continue to build kits. I also have several kits that are still in the box, which I will eventually build. To me, the kits are priceless. I wouldn't sell them .... Especially with the mentality of most people who want everything at half price. Just not worth selling them. When built, they are the finest, most sturdy and structurally sound planes in the air. Inside and out.

I enjoy building them almost as much as I enjoy flying them.

I do ARF's too. But I always strip off the covering and beef-up the structure. Especially the landing gear mounting rails. By the time I'm done re-working an ARF, it's about equal in strength and durability as a kit ... and nearly the same amount of building time!

It would be nice to see many of the kits come back into production.

You BUILD kits ... you DO ARF's.

Who the heck wants to build a kit anyway... I am only in this for the chicks.

Bob

I can under stand why arf guys look in at what model builders are doing ,I look in on guys with more skill than i have or just to watch but when it goes from not having a kit in a hobby shop to newbees trying to tell us how great, cheap and fast arfs go together its bad. Then we get defensive and they get their feelings hurt and its another war . We build cause we can and we dont want a plane thats built for us already . I know some arf guys call it to much work or to much time but thats what we enjoy doing . joe

Nobody tried to sell anybody on how great, cheap or fast ARF's are. The point was simply made that ARF's may be a reason that kits are not as widely available. After all, that is the point of the forum. Let's keep that point in context of this thread.<div>
</div><div>And the main reason non kit builders are most likely even reading this thread is it's on the home page of RCU.</div>

Nicely Stated, Joe !
And I will stand on that also !
Though am sure You or I will have to take a verbal blow or two to pay for it.

Cheers Joe

I have had more verbal blows for saying less .lmao joe

Heheheheh..

Ignore em, they hate that..[:@]

LMAO Also..

Sure we each do what we enjoy in the hobby, of that there is no argument. I often wander into the RC drag racing forum and I've never had the desire to own one but what they do is awesome. I also go into the Jet forums from time to time and wonder at the amount of money those guys spend on toy airplanes. It's all good.

I however do not bash someone simply because they don't do as I do, nor do I pretend to think I'm a better modeler than the next guy simply because I built a kit or an ARF. To do so is pure folly. That guy you laugh at might very well be a world class builder. I know guys that think an ARF is too much work to "Build". We all know guys that should never be allowed near a work bench with sharp knifes. It's all good.

We had a guy in our club than didn't know what a piece of sand paper was for, he brought out his year long labor of love Spitfire. This thing was hideous, it still had square leading edges and tips. He didn't know you had to peal the clear off the back of the monokote to use it. How he got the stuff to stick I still don't know. To everyones amazement the thing flew, not well mind you but he took it off and landed it all in the same flight. He was grinning from ear to ear after wards, just who was I to tell him what a pile of junk he'd built. No sir, we all slapped him on the back and told him "Good job". It didn't last but a couple of flights and he dumb thumbed it into the ground.

That airplane is still the talk of our club 25 years later, still brings smiles to everyones face that saw it when it's brought up. He still flies to this day, he flies mostly ARF's but still tries to build one every so often. More power to him, he's having a grand time. None of us are going to tell him he shouldn't be building.


Now those of us that have been in the hobby a few decades or more can attest there were "Kits" on the market that were pure junk from day one, just like there are some junk ARF's out there.

Do I miss some of the kits no longer produced? Sure, those are the ones I buy when I find them.


Tim

The bottom line is kits are going away because they are not being bought. Builders will always build and the ARF assemblers will be slaves to what is available.
A guy in my club complains all the time about certain aircraft not being made available. I always tell him if he would just build the model, he could have anything he wants.

I've always figured if all you did was fly ARFs you were a "rc plane flyer", a "model airplane flyer", not a modeler. A airplane modeler is someone who "models" airplanes. Any definition of "model" or "modeler" involves creating, building. I think it would be stretch to say "I model the flight characteristics of a real airplane when I fly my ARF, therefore I am a modeler." Not that I really care, someone can call himself whatever he wants.

Who cares why, or why not kits are going away, one can always scratch build if they so desire. What does this same old topic have to do with building show and tell, or questions about building? These kind of threads are just baggage and don't do anything of value for anyone.

Bob

There are enough posts about building and building with what ,depron, foam or balsa to keep us builders busy in our forums . Do we really need any more drama. lol I build from plans or draw my own and the arfs can do what ever they want to do also. I have not decided what my build this winter will be but i think it will be this one. I will make it about 100 inches and i think electrict is called for on this bird. lol Later guys. Its a sweet looking bird my arf friends but i dont think china will be making any in the near future.lmao joe

Here in my area just this last month had one of our LHS close, not enough business to make a living. We now only have two LHS left. One is more into helicopters and boats. The other one has been around a long time and is basically a mail order store. His cost plus state sales tax about the same as tower and shipping. He's made a pretty good living for the past 15-20 years and out lasted several others who have come and gone. FRom what I see the day of the Nitros is past. Most here are either small electric or the large gas. At $18 a gallion for nitro vs. $3.50 gas makes up the difference in the cost of the largers ARFs vs. the smaller you built it nitros . In my opinion the quality of kits today is far superior to what they were 20-30- years ago. I personally perfer to built as to me that is what the sport or hobby is all about. Secondly, when I crash, I know how to put the pieces back together. I agree though, there are plenty of kits available if you just look. Thirdly, I like to point to pride I built it!!

This topic reminds me of riding a bicycle. Who cares what kind of bike your neighbor is riding. Who cares if you built yours from parts and he bought his from Walmart ready to ride. Who cares if he can't fix his and you built yours from scratch. Do what you want and stop worrying about why others do what they do.

Hobby shops are businesses - simple supply and demand 101.

Kurt