Go Back  RCU Forums > RC Airplanes > Kit Building
 Who else has failed on their first build? >

Who else has failed on their first build?

Community
Search
Notices
Kit Building If you're building a kit and have questions or want to discuss kit building post it here.

Who else has failed on their first build?

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 09-06-2012 | 11:37 AM
  #26  
My Feedback: (6)
 
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 63
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
From: Willingboro, NJ
Default RE: Who else has failed on their first build?

Here's a question. Does the model use a semi-symetrical airfoil? I had a student years ago build a model with the same complaint. It had a semi-symetrical wing and he built one of the wing panels upside down. You couldn't see it looking at the airplane but when we cut the wingtip off you could see that on the one wing panel the airfoil was upside down. If this is the case you will need to build a new wing.
Old 09-06-2012 | 11:42 AM
  #27  
Thread Starter
Member
 
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 62
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
From: Elon, NC
Default RE: Who else has failed on their first build?


ORIGINAL: bafflerback

Here's a question. Does the model use a semi-symetrical airfoil? I had a student years ago build a model with the same complaint. It had a semi-symetrical wing and he built one of the wing panels upside down. You couldn't see it looking at the airplane but when we cut the wingtip off you could see that on the one wing panel the airfoil was upside down. If this is the case you will need to build a new wing.
You lost me on "semi-symetrical airfoil." Maybe this answers your question. The instructions were very specific to build the two wing halves according to the plan, WITH ONE WING HALF UPSIDE DOWN. That way I wouldn't end up with two right wings (make sense?). I was careful to do this. Is that what you're getting at?

The warp that I speak of may very well be contributing. If I look directly at the airplace from the front, and position it so that the leading adges and the trailing edge are level to my eye, one wing has the trailing edge protruding below the leading edge about 2mm for a length of about 10mm. Very small, and I have to be looking very closely to even see it. Do you think that's contributing to the problem? To me it seems very insignificant. I have faom planes that fly great with alot more warp in the wing than that, but maybe this "warp" is not helping.

Old 09-06-2012 | 11:43 AM
  #28  
MTK
Senior Member
 
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 5,386
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
From: Whippany, NJ
Default RE: Who else has failed on their first build?


ORIGINAL: rgburrill

Spend some money and build a real model. 1.5oz? Really?? Talk about a butterfly effect.
There's nothing wrong with the light weight. My grandson and I build stick and tissue crates that weigh 10 to 20 grams and take E-Flite electronics.

The main thing is to make sure that CG is a little fore. These micro models are unforgiving to aft CG.

I don't agree 100% with the guys that said even a small warp could be a problem. My grandson and I do not build 100% true surfaces, hardly ever on our small crates, yet these are trimmed to fly true all the time.

To me, the biggest issue is CG
Old 09-06-2012 | 12:06 PM
  #29  
Junior Member
 
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
From: Pickerington, OH
Default RE: Who else has failed on their first build?

In a right turn, the right wing will drop.  In a left turn , the left wing will drop.  In either case the rudder will slightly assume the characteristics of an elevator.  In the right turn, it will impart a slight down.  In a left turn, it will impart alight down.  If the plane is trimmed, it will fly straight hands off.  The whole purpose of the hobby is to have fun
Old 09-06-2012 | 12:50 PM
  #30  
oliveDrab's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 819
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
From: Georgetown, KY
Default RE: Who else has failed on their first build?


ORIGINAL: SeamusG

Do a search out in WWW land for ''Dean Pappas trimming from the ground up''. There is a set of 3 pdf files that help you understand how get things sorted out.

Btw, I was really nervous on the maiden of my 1st build, so much in fact, that I got an experienced club member to do the maiden for me. There are sooooo many little things that can bite a nice ''build'' squarely in the arse. Have a local builder do a ''tech inspection'' of your plane. You'd be surprised what we overlook 'cause we've been looking at it for a long time.

Sit back with an adult beverage and ...
<ul>[*]Make doubly sure that all of the throws are within spec. [*]Are all control surfaces tight? No slack when you grab the surface with your fingers and try to move it against the servo's resistance (off or on)<br type=''_moz''/>[*]CG? A tad nose heavy is a good start.[/list]
Oh, thanks for reference to Stevens - they are just down the road from me in ''the Springs''. I like to keep my $$$$ local.
</p>
That's some very good advice. I've got an electric F8F Bearcat with flaps, 72" span, retractable gear, 17.5 lbs. It's making me nervous.............so I'll take your advice.
Old 09-06-2012 | 02:04 PM
  #31  
My Feedback: (-1)
 
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 14,400
Received 9 Likes on 8 Posts
From: Hemderson, NV
Default RE: Who else has failed on their first build?

You know 70, there is a forum at the bottom of the header bar called Wattflyer, all they speak is electric and there is one fellow over there that builds and converts the small rubber band planes as a specialty. They do a lot of the small planes like you built. You are in the kit building forum and you did build a kit but you can expect a lot of BS about it not being a real plane due to it's size. Right or wrong. I have converted a couple of small 1/2A kits to electric but I haven't built anything as small as your plane and tried to fly it. Fact is it is a hand full to fly at the best of times. When I have problems with any of my electric planes I do go into the Wattflyer forum. The folks there are much more help then here on RCU and I try to refer people over to that site.
There are a few people here that fly the little planes but nothing at all compared to the Wattflyer forum. Do yourself a favor and go take a look at that site for anything in the smaller class of electric planes. I think you will be impressed and have better luck. It's a bit more basic too. If you didn't understand the question about the air foil you maybe should have looked in RC terms, it was basic speak. That sort of told me you may be a bit over your head here?
Old 09-06-2012 | 03:53 PM
  #32  
rgburrill's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 2,910
Received 81 Likes on 72 Posts
From: Dallas, Tx CT
Default RE: Who else has failed on their first build?

First, I would like to appologize to the OP. I did not intend to degrade him. I stand behind the rest of my comment but I certainly could have said it without comment on cost. I am truly sorry.
Second, your subject says you think you failed on your first attempt at building. I don't think you failed. I don't think you built your aiprlane wrong, I think you built the wrong airplane. If my memory serves me correctly that plane has about a 19 inch wingspan. That would give a wing loading of under 2 oz per sqft. And that is a tenth of the wing loading of a typical trainer. Plus their web sites says you will use .5oz of glue so that means you have 1 ounce left for wood, covering, electronics, motor and battery. You would have no structural strenght at all in the fuse or wings. Very minor build errors like slightly warped wing and aft CG would translate into huge problems in flying.
Again I am sorry - I too look at low cost items and am even considering one balsaARF Cub from Hobby King that is only around $30 but itweighs 30oz with around a 46 inch wingspan. Even so I am very concerned about the low wing loading.
Old 09-06-2012 | 04:45 PM
  #33  
eddieC's Avatar
Senior Member
My Feedback: (2)
 
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 2,102
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
From: Jackson, MI
Default RE: Who else has failed on their first build?

Rg, you should try an SA aircraft, they fly great. My bud, a pattern guy for decades, was flying his Parkzone Champ tonight after flying his ,60-size plane. He had a blast.  He too was a non-believer, but was finally bit by an E-zombie. [8D]
Old 09-06-2012 | 05:13 PM
  #34  
Thread Starter
Member
 
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 62
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
From: Elon, NC
Default RE: Who else has failed on their first build?

Gray Beard
Thanks for you reply. I know you're trying to help, but I cannot see how it would be right to go to the Wattflyer forum to ask a question about a kit build, no matter the size of the kit. This is the Kit Building Forum. As far as I can tell, it is geared toward Kit Building, including beginner builders who aren't familiar with all the terminology, small planes, and electrics. I appreciate the advice, I really do, but it really does seem as though I'm in the right forum.

rgburrill,
Thanks for your post, that was good of you to say. I appreciate it.
As for the plane, I used less than half of the glue they recommended, and still felt as though I glued thoroughly. The plane seems to be very sturdy, so I think it's held together well. As for cost, StevensAERO didn't seem to be abnormally inexpensive when I compared some other kits of equivalent size. I spent around $50 for the kit, covering, glue, and shipping. I already had all the electronics, motor, and batteries. That was all that I felt like shelling out for a first kit. And by the way, the quality of the kit was top-notch. I have nothing to compare it to, but I was pleasantly surprised how all the pieces went together perfectly with no sanding or shaping at all. I didn't even have to make holes for the push rods to pass through, they were already there. Throughout the whole process, I felt like I was working with quality materials (even if they were small). I'm not serious enough about this to spend hundreds of dollars on a plane right now. I've got 3 small children and lots of responsibilitiesso $50 is plenty for me. As for size, I only fly in my yard, and this size airplane is perfect for my yard.

It seems that the airplane is off-balance left to right. When I hold it by the prop tip and the tail it will roll left. I'm not exactly sure why, but I'll keep working with it. The right wing is the one with the slight warp. I'm guess that the slightly heavier left side is causing the plane to constantly want to bank left. Coupled with the right wing, which perhaps is more prone to stall due to the warp, that's what's making the airplane unpredictable....I think.<br type="_moz"/>
Old 09-06-2012 | 07:13 PM
  #35  
Senior Member
 
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 381
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
From: Huntington, IN
Default RE: Who else has failed on their first build?


ORIGINAL: acdii

A little trick I learned for getting the balance down all at one time. Find the exact CG point on the plane, and the exact center line of the plane. Put a hook at that point, and hang it from the hook. You will see both the fore-aft balance and lateral balance and can adjust both at the same time.
Sorry to jump in, but I wish you had a picture of this.
Old 09-06-2012 | 07:34 PM
  #36  
My Feedback: (-1)
 
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 14,400
Received 9 Likes on 8 Posts
From: Hemderson, NV
Default RE: Who else has failed on their first build?

Biil, your a long way from the CG and there are several ways to do it. On your plans there should be a datum line that you will make measurements from. It's often mentioned in the instructions. Find it and mark it on your fuse, you will need it later. Using a pully with a couple of lines and a plumb bob is just one way to find the CG. My last shop I had a pully set up permently but also use a CG machine, both home made and bought from Great Planes. When it's time you can look it all up but you have a while. You could read about how to do it in several places.
Also look up incidence, it will be mentioned a lot when you are trying to trim your plane. It's nice to know in advance what these things are. There is a sticky with RC terms used in one of the forums, I think beginners? Also look at Getting Airborn, ask Ken about it. Tells you most everything you need to know.
Old 09-06-2012 | 08:24 PM
  #37  
Senior Member
My Feedback: (1)
 
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,228
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
From: Arvada, CO
Default RE: Who else has failed on their first build?


ORIGINAL: eddieC

Lol, he can't read, either: ''Please resist the urge to curse, flame, DEGRADE...''
Really Eddie C, That’s some real chutzpah coming from you!

70X7, I agree with the advice your getting to check the center of gravity. Make sure the plane is a touch nose heavy, not neutral, not a little tail heavy. I'll bet this will take care of 90% of your problem. Once you get the plane flying "on the rails" you can start to move the cg back a little at a time to make it more responsive to control inputs.

This has happened to all of us even the "Experts". Years ago North American Aviation was working on development of the Hound Dog Missile. The thing was tail heavy to the point the autopilot had to make corrections about 8 times a second, a nearly constant rate. Even with the auto pilot working that hard NAA could not get the missile to hit the target. The solution was to put about 50 lb. of led in the nose and it solved the problem.

Rrragman


Old 09-06-2012 | 10:10 PM
  #38  
eddieC's Avatar
Senior Member
My Feedback: (2)
 
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 2,102
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
From: Jackson, MI
Default RE: Who else has failed on their first build?

Thanx! I didn't know how to spell 'chutzpah'. [8D] Sorry dude, you came across harsh. Good you made amends. <div>
</div><div>I made a crude-but-effective CG device out of a 2X4 18" long with a series of holes countersunk half way for a pair of 3/8" dowels. The dowels were 12" long with one end rounded, and the other end drilled for 1" drywall screws that would secure the dowel to the 2X4. The 2X4 had legs to keep it upright. Simple, worked well. </div>
Old 09-06-2012 | 11:10 PM
  #39  
3136's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 973
Likes: 0
Received 7 Likes on 7 Posts
From: Victoria, AUSTRALIA
Default RE: Who else has failed on their first build?

70x7 it will take all of 20 seconds to stick some blue tack to the front, give that a try.
Old 09-07-2012 | 12:10 PM
  #40  
 
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 510
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
From: SoCal, CA
Default RE: Who else has failed on their first build?

For what it's worth, I think you are on the right track. Add a tiny bit of weight (use tape initially) to the right wing tip to balance the plane in the roll axis, make sure the plane is slightly nose heavy to start with. Note, you can't use your fingers to check the CG with these tiny airplanes, that's just not accurate enough. The 2mm deflection over a 10mm length wing warp could be a factor, can you steam it out or heat up the covering and twist the wing slightly until it cools down? If the incidence angles and the control throws are correct, you have done your homework! Of course you need to fly these micro planes in very still air, even a light breeze will be a real challenge. Good luck!
Old 09-07-2012 | 01:45 PM
  #41  
KitBuilder's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,638
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
From: Palm Harbor, FL
Default RE: Who else has failed on their first build?

The build has warps, not balanced or both.

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are On



Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2026 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.