SIG Stratus (#RC4) - the long slow plans build
06-08-2015, 11:34 AM
#201
Thread Starter
Oh well.
06-13-2015, 06:41 PM
#203
Thread Starter
Quickie update on the Stratus' progress. She's had 9 flights now, each better than the previous. I found that the right wing was a bit light, added 3/4 oz to the wingtip (good thing they're more or less hollow - easy add) to balance laterally. Also canted the engine another degree right.
Gotta tell ya, that OS.61SF is a thirsty little critter - one full gallon of fuel has gone through her in a week. That's a record for me, for any plane. Heading to the LHS on Monday for a couple more (140 mile round-trip).
Getting rather comfy with inverted flight - she looks completely different on her back, it's a bit dis-orienting sometimes. Been playing with the classic pattern too (pre-turn around). Kinda hoping to get it right at least once before I go totally beyond the dark side.
I like this plane!!!
Gotta tell ya, that OS.61SF is a thirsty little critter - one full gallon of fuel has gone through her in a week. That's a record for me, for any plane. Heading to the LHS on Monday for a couple more (140 mile round-trip).
Getting rather comfy with inverted flight - she looks completely different on her back, it's a bit dis-orienting sometimes. Been playing with the classic pattern too (pre-turn around). Kinda hoping to get it right at least once before I go totally beyond the dark side.
I like this plane!!!
06-16-2015, 01:42 PM
#209
Thread Starter
Y'er right - this HAS been fun, as well as educating. Fabulously educating. This is the first time I've ever built a plane from plans only. Makes me appreciate all those kits I've built just that much more.
I heard from Mike Gretz (SIG) that the Stratus, Komet and Simco all shared the same wing - thinking kinda seriously of a Komet for this winter's project. I've never seen one (or even a pic of one) but the Simco has been described as a Stratus with conventional tail (ho hum).
Colors: There's a screwed-up "Jack Benny" story to those colors, actually. I've got (still got) QUART cans of metallic maroon & Miami blue (both are still over half-full) from a long time ago. Brodak is in the process of unloading all their old SIG spray cans for $5/each and both colors are on that list so I got 2 of each. Two NEW pint cans (can't get quarts anymore) of yellow from SIG cost more than all that other dope combined, plus the quart of clear, pint of nitrate & two qts of thinner. I originally THOUGHT (yeah, dumb thing to do) I might get off cheaper by going back to the 60's and doping an old classic with what I had on hand. Worked out that monokote would have cost about $50-60, dope, stixit & koverall broke $150 PLUS the dope I had on-hand.
However, this bird MUST be doped - it'd be wrong to monokote her.
I heard from Mike Gretz (SIG) that the Stratus, Komet and Simco all shared the same wing - thinking kinda seriously of a Komet for this winter's project. I've never seen one (or even a pic of one) but the Simco has been described as a Stratus with conventional tail (ho hum).
Colors: There's a screwed-up "Jack Benny" story to those colors, actually. I've got (still got) QUART cans of metallic maroon & Miami blue (both are still over half-full) from a long time ago. Brodak is in the process of unloading all their old SIG spray cans for $5/each and both colors are on that list so I got 2 of each. Two NEW pint cans (can't get quarts anymore) of yellow from SIG cost more than all that other dope combined, plus the quart of clear, pint of nitrate & two qts of thinner. I originally THOUGHT (yeah, dumb thing to do) I might get off cheaper by going back to the 60's and doping an old classic with what I had on hand. Worked out that monokote would have cost about $50-60, dope, stixit & koverall broke $150 PLUS the dope I had on-hand.
However, this bird MUST be doped - it'd be wrong to monokote her.
06-17-2015, 07:25 AM
#211
06-17-2015, 03:16 PM
#212
My Feedback: (-1)
I go onto the site every week just to see if there are new video's and hear Bob in most of them. If the LB didn't flood I think Bob would live there.
By the way, the video's have really improved in the last year or two. I have friends in other countries wanting to get onto the site but Bob had to block a number of the URL do to hacking?? The Jims and I were talking about that last week. A shame some people can't get on the web site. It has a lot of good stuff.
Gene
By the way, the video's have really improved in the last year or two. I have friends in other countries wanting to get onto the site but Bob had to block a number of the URL do to hacking?? The Jims and I were talking about that last week. A shame some people can't get on the web site. It has a lot of good stuff.
Gene
06-17-2015, 03:52 PM
#213
Thanks for the compliment, I do have fun with them and I agree about the hackers, but lets not hijack Dave's thread. You should go to my u-tube site and subscribe and you'll get all of them 
There is a link in my signature at the bottom of this post. Got to get up REAL early this weekend to avoid at least a little of the triple digits.....hope to see you out there if you take the trip around to our side of the mountain. 
There is a link in my signature at the bottom of this post. Got to get up REAL early this weekend to avoid at least a little of the triple digits.....hope to see you out there if you take the trip around to our side of the mountain.
06-28-2015, 12:52 PM
#214
Thread Starter
Just a quickie update on the Stratus. She's had 30+ flights on her now and a couple minor issues have come up - probably all "me" problems.
Once I got her all trimmed out and balanced "properly" her flying characteristics changed (not surprising). I'm having issues with stall turns now - sometimes they're OK, sometimes she just stalls forward and THEN starts turning while she's headed back down. Can't figure out whether I'm screwing up or whether it's due to the rudders being so widely spaced apart and not getting enough air at the top. Anybody got ideas?
Spins are pretty much the same problem - sometimes they're OK, sometimes she goes into a "diving spiral".
With both spins & stall turns I'm hitting full rudder (s-turns) or full everything and engine-idle (spins) right at the point she comes to a stop in the vertical climb. Might I be hitting the sticks a bit late?
Rudder deflection capability in both directions is near max allowable without hitting the elevator - about 40 degrees, elevator deflection max's out at about 60 degrees - up and down. Ailerons max out at about 45 degrees in both directions. CG is well within Maxey's recommendations, nearly dead center.
Every other maneuver I've tried comes out just fine - just those 2 giving me problems. I've even managed to do a couple "passable" knife-edge passes, and I'm NO KIND of knife-edge flyer. Actually, the maneuvers I've been practicing mostly are the Classic Pattern Assoc & Senior Pattern Assoc NOVICE patterns: take-off, straight flight out, procedure turn, straight flight back, stall turn, Immelmann, 3-loops, cuban-8, straight inverted, reverse outside loop, 3-horizontal rolls & landing. I figure once I've got those passable I'll advance myself to the next advanced level and try those. Really, nothing super fancy - just trying to get it right.
BTW, this plane is FUN!!!!
Once I got her all trimmed out and balanced "properly" her flying characteristics changed (not surprising). I'm having issues with stall turns now - sometimes they're OK, sometimes she just stalls forward and THEN starts turning while she's headed back down. Can't figure out whether I'm screwing up or whether it's due to the rudders being so widely spaced apart and not getting enough air at the top. Anybody got ideas?
Spins are pretty much the same problem - sometimes they're OK, sometimes she goes into a "diving spiral".
With both spins & stall turns I'm hitting full rudder (s-turns) or full everything and engine-idle (spins) right at the point she comes to a stop in the vertical climb. Might I be hitting the sticks a bit late?
Rudder deflection capability in both directions is near max allowable without hitting the elevator - about 40 degrees, elevator deflection max's out at about 60 degrees - up and down. Ailerons max out at about 45 degrees in both directions. CG is well within Maxey's recommendations, nearly dead center.
Every other maneuver I've tried comes out just fine - just those 2 giving me problems. I've even managed to do a couple "passable" knife-edge passes, and I'm NO KIND of knife-edge flyer. Actually, the maneuvers I've been practicing mostly are the Classic Pattern Assoc & Senior Pattern Assoc NOVICE patterns: take-off, straight flight out, procedure turn, straight flight back, stall turn, Immelmann, 3-loops, cuban-8, straight inverted, reverse outside loop, 3-horizontal rolls & landing. I figure once I've got those passable I'll advance myself to the next advanced level and try those. Really, nothing super fancy - just trying to get it right.
BTW, this plane is FUN!!!!
06-28-2015, 02:00 PM
#215
Since there is no prop wash over a vertical fin, you need a little airflow over the rudders for them to be effective. For the spins, keep shifting the Cg back until they are satisfactory. Try the dynamic Cg test. Dive the airplane at a 45 degree angle and release the stick. If it's nose heavy, the nose will rise. If it's tail heavy, it will tuck under.
Last edited by Michaelj2k; 06-28-2015 at 02:03 PM.
06-29-2015, 05:58 AM
#216
I think Michael hit the nail on the head with prop wash, you don't get to use it except for a little effect on the fuse. And you already said those rudders need airflow in order to work so ya I would say earlier on the sticks. Your already realizing you have a very unique plane both visually and aerodynamically so don't expect......experience and experiment.
So cool you let us experience a little of what you are....thanks!!
So cool you let us experience a little of what you are....thanks!!
06-30-2015, 10:18 AM
#217
Thread Starter
Well, there's good news today, and bad news today.
THE GOOD NEWS:
I solved the lazy spin & stall-turn problems. For spins, you just keep about 1/3 to 1/2 throttle as you pull her around into it and after she starts turning you go to idle - kind of a case of she needs just a bit of help starting into them. Spins are so tight, in both directions, it's hard to keep track of how many you've done - absolutely amazing. I got a couple spins today where she did 3 rotations and hadn't lost more than 15 feet altitude.
Stall turns, with that 5.5" dihedral, are pretty cool too. You do the same thing, about 1/3 to 1/2 throttle and when you kick the rudders over you go slightly opposite aileron - she rotates right around and comes straight down again.
I gotta tell ya, this is some airplane! She's smooth in everything she does, a total joy to fly.
THE BAD NEWS:
She's toast!
Flight #37 - everything's going just fine and I'm into the 10th maneuver, a reverse outside loop (just 2 maneuvers to go - horizontal rolls and landing) and she simply quit listening to me. As she came over the top of the loop she simply went vertical - with the usual result. Total radio failure - no doubt about it. I put the engine to idle - nothing. Ailerons - nothing. Elevator - nothing. From 200 feet up, she put a 7" hole in the ground when she hit. Engine's shot - probably not even good for parts, fuel tank impaled itself on the nose wheel mount screws, she's a mess.
However, it's going to take awhile and I've got to take a much better look at her than I have so far, but she MIGHT be re-buildable. At the very least, I'll be able to use a lot of the hardware and maybe much of the body/wings.
She's sitting in the back of my ancient F150, still haven't brought her down into the shop yet.
Either this one, or a new one, WILL fly again. She's a fabulous design and now I know where the building pitfalls are so a new one would go together a fair amount lighter. She's HUGE fun to fly too, so...
THE GOOD NEWS:
I solved the lazy spin & stall-turn problems.
For spins, you just keep about 1/3 to 1/2 throttle as you pull her around into it and after she starts turning you go to idle - kind of a case of she needs just a bit of help starting into them. Spins are so tight, in both directions, it's hard to keep track of how many you've done - absolutely amazing. I got a couple spins today where she did 3 rotations and hadn't lost more than 15 feet altitude.Stall turns, with that 5.5" dihedral, are pretty cool too. You do the same thing, about 1/3 to 1/2 throttle and when you kick the rudders over you go slightly opposite aileron - she rotates right around and comes straight down again.
I gotta tell ya, this is some airplane! She's smooth in everything she does, a total joy to fly.
THE BAD NEWS:
She's toast!
Flight #37 - everything's going just fine and I'm into the 10th maneuver, a reverse outside loop (just 2 maneuvers to go - horizontal rolls and landing) and she simply quit listening to me. As she came over the top of the loop she simply went vertical - with the usual result. Total radio failure - no doubt about it. I put the engine to idle - nothing. Ailerons - nothing. Elevator - nothing. From 200 feet up, she put a 7" hole in the ground when she hit. Engine's shot - probably not even good for parts, fuel tank impaled itself on the nose wheel mount screws, she's a mess.
However, it's going to take awhile and I've got to take a much better look at her than I have so far, but she MIGHT be re-buildable. At the very least, I'll be able to use a lot of the hardware and maybe much of the body/wings.
She's sitting in the back of my ancient F150, still haven't brought her down into the shop yet.
Either this one, or a new one, WILL fly again. She's a fabulous design and now I know where the building pitfalls are so a new one would go together a fair amount lighter. She's HUGE fun to fly too, so...
06-30-2015, 10:47 AM
#218
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O' boy I'm sorry Dave! I just logged on for the first time in weeks, my daughter has been in town and I could hardy believe my eyes! The fuse from the pics looks re-buildable and outer wings I guess.
06-30-2015, 11:21 AM
#219
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Dave,
That is a horrible sight to see. But, from what I see, it is rebuildable. I have brought back to life airplanes much worse than that. Do the rebuild so you can get it back in the air quicker than to a whole new airplane. From the looks of things. you are 80% toward having a flyable airplane again. When it is repaired start on the new improved one.
The pictures showed something that concerned me. The hinges appear to have come loose from the slots. Eventually, they could have come loose in the air and loss would have been certain. Just looking at it from a distance so you decide what is going on.
Now, I must get my Stratus charged and back into the air. I am apparently missing out on a lot of fun.
Remember, a wrecked airplane is a terrible thing to waste.
That is a horrible sight to see. But, from what I see, it is rebuildable. I have brought back to life airplanes much worse than that. Do the rebuild so you can get it back in the air quicker than to a whole new airplane. From the looks of things. you are 80% toward having a flyable airplane again. When it is repaired start on the new improved one.
The pictures showed something that concerned me. The hinges appear to have come loose from the slots. Eventually, they could have come loose in the air and loss would have been certain. Just looking at it from a distance so you decide what is going on.
Now, I must get my Stratus charged and back into the air. I am apparently missing out on a lot of fun.
Remember, a wrecked airplane is a terrible thing to waste.
06-30-2015, 12:34 PM
#222
Sorry to see those pictures and the wreckage. You spent some good time building it. Now keep a positive outlook and repair or rebuild. I had the same thing happen first time out solo. I just picked up the pieces and rebuilt. Sorry for your loss.
06-30-2015, 01:48 PM
#223
Four letter expletives are being muttered all across the nation right now.
I can't offer any more than what has already been said but I would definitely like to see any form of reincarnation..... and that will be up to you.
I know we all have pictures like that last one, some came back because they were worth the resurrection and I think there is nothing better than a new project to chase away the blues.
I'm looking forward to what ever yours is going to be.
I can't offer any more than what has already been said but I would definitely like to see any form of reincarnation..... and that will be up to you.
I know we all have pictures like that last one, some came back because they were worth the resurrection and I think there is nothing better than a new project to chase away the blues.
I'm looking forward to what ever yours is going to be.
06-30-2015, 04:14 PM
#224
Thread Starter
I've been prodding and poking, tearing her apart in the shop for the past 2 hours and it's really not all that much worse than the CG Eaglet I reincarnated this past winter, in some ways she's not half as bad. Definitely re-buildable, this time with the wings sheeted so she can be put in the VRCS Concourse shows.
Pretty much gotta tear into near everything to make sure all the joints are right but it's really not much more than "dis-assembly, reassembly, replace" parts that were lost. Plus new radio, engine, etc. Don't know if she'll fly again this summer, but she might.
No way to tell what went wrong with the radio but I'm 99% sure that's the culprit. She's one of the old Tower System-3000 4-channel units - I bought 4 of them back about 15 or so years ago, this was the last one still working. It's always been the best of the bunch though, figured it'd do just fine like it has in the other 3 planes it drove. Guess not. I've got a couple other radios (one is an AM) that are a whole lot older and still work just fine - may load one of them into her when she's ready.
Yeah, I saw those hinges unglued too. Separation happened on impact, but might have separated eventually anyway. I've never had a problem with the material CA hinges though and quite a few of my planes have them. Definitely going to look into that one though. This plane is a missile when she gets spooled up.
Hokay, the preliminary listing of damages:
FUSELAGE
1. nose - ONLY the engine compartment is totally lost. Firewall, believe it or not, separated but is intact. Fuel tank compartment is "bent" but definitely repairable. Engine is a total loss, fuel tank also.
2. center - all radio mounts are lost. Fuse side is cracked where switch was.
3. tail - cracks on both top and bottom of horizontal stab. Control rods are still connected to rudder & elevator, both operational.
WINGS
1. Separated at center - lost one inner bay forward of the spar on right wing.
2. Ailerons separated.
Basically, that's it. Covering WILL all come off to make sure interior is intact, but it's really not as bad as one would think. Also removing the covering will allow for total sheeting of the wings - like I should have in the first place. Time & $$$, AGAIN.
Naw, no four-letter expletives, other than my initial "What The ****" as she was aiming for the Earth's core from 200'+. These machines have been my pride & joy since I was 7 yrs old. She's not the first one I've crashed, but she IS the first in the 21st century. Had to happen sooner or later.
Now, to work on the rebuild.
Pretty much gotta tear into near everything to make sure all the joints are right but it's really not much more than "dis-assembly, reassembly, replace" parts that were lost. Plus new radio, engine, etc. Don't know if she'll fly again this summer, but she might.
No way to tell what went wrong with the radio but I'm 99% sure that's the culprit. She's one of the old Tower System-3000 4-channel units - I bought 4 of them back about 15 or so years ago, this was the last one still working. It's always been the best of the bunch though, figured it'd do just fine like it has in the other 3 planes it drove. Guess not. I've got a couple other radios (one is an AM) that are a whole lot older and still work just fine - may load one of them into her when she's ready.
Yeah, I saw those hinges unglued too. Separation happened on impact, but might have separated eventually anyway. I've never had a problem with the material CA hinges though and quite a few of my planes have them. Definitely going to look into that one though. This plane is a missile when she gets spooled up.
Hokay, the preliminary listing of damages:
FUSELAGE
1. nose - ONLY the engine compartment is totally lost. Firewall, believe it or not, separated but is intact. Fuel tank compartment is "bent" but definitely repairable. Engine is a total loss, fuel tank also.
2. center - all radio mounts are lost. Fuse side is cracked where switch was.
3. tail - cracks on both top and bottom of horizontal stab. Control rods are still connected to rudder & elevator, both operational.
WINGS
1. Separated at center - lost one inner bay forward of the spar on right wing.
2. Ailerons separated.
Basically, that's it. Covering WILL all come off to make sure interior is intact, but it's really not as bad as one would think. Also removing the covering will allow for total sheeting of the wings - like I should have in the first place. Time & $$$, AGAIN.
Naw, no four-letter expletives, other than my initial "What The ****" as she was aiming for the Earth's core from 200'+. These machines have been my pride & joy since I was 7 yrs old. She's not the first one I've crashed, but she IS the first in the 21st century. Had to happen sooner or later.
Now, to work on the rebuild.
Last edited by skylark-flier; 06-30-2015 at 06:57 PM.
06-30-2015, 04:26 PM
#225
OK, I'm though crying over your loss Dave. Let's start this rebuild! I saw the pictures early this afternoon and spent a few hours in shock, but after reviewing the carnage I agree, it's totally rebuildable. The engine might now even be as bad off as you think, but I would need to see it first hand to know for sure.
In almost 30 years of flying R/C I've only had one total radio failure that wasn't my own dumb fault. Old Airtronics 72 mHz AM 6 channel went T.U. on short slow final with my Sr Falcon. Resulted in a rough landing and a broken prop. Could have been so much worse. Replaced it with a newer Airtronics FM 6 channel that held on for 15 years until it developed a shudder in the rudder channel. Never could figure it out, so I switch to all Futabas. Never had a problem with Futaba.
In almost 30 years of flying R/C I've only had one total radio failure that wasn't my own dumb fault. Old Airtronics 72 mHz AM 6 channel went T.U. on short slow final with my Sr Falcon. Resulted in a rough landing and a broken prop. Could have been so much worse. Replaced it with a newer Airtronics FM 6 channel that held on for 15 years until it developed a shudder in the rudder channel. Never could figure it out, so I switch to all Futabas. Never had a problem with Futaba.