Beginner Builder Seeking Advice
07-19-2016, 06:35 PM
#26
Okay, let me repost the original post at the start of the thread:
Hey all!
I am a beginner builder and flier (own 2 Walmart quality airplanes.) I am looking to turn my game up and build my own 4 channel aircraft. I'm not looking to make anything fancy (need a durable body as I will crash a lot.) Can anyone suggest a build and some equipment/credible brands I might need?
Any help appreciated!
If you note the line hi-lighted in blue, he's flown a couple of toy grade planes already. He now "want's to up his game and build a four channel aircraft". That eliminates ARFs, ARCs and foam planes.
Two of us have recommended the Kadet. B2B recommended the PT 40 with OS power. These fall right into what was asked in the line hi-lighted in red.
Where you say there is no durable wooden kit for a true crash, that is true. It is just as true, however, for a foam plane. What is also true for foam planes is:
1) They are generally very small when compared to balsa kits
2) They are generally very quick to react to control inputs when compared to a balsa kit
3) They area pretty much always electric powered.
4) They are pretty much a "throw away" toy when compared to a balsa kit
5) There is no "investment" such as building time when dealing a foamy. Unlike a kit, if you crash, it's more of a "so what, I'll just go buy another one" type of deal, ideal for today's "instant gratification society".
Hey all!
I am a beginner builder and flier (own 2 Walmart quality airplanes.) I am looking to turn my game up and build my own 4 channel aircraft. I'm not looking to make anything fancy (need a durable body as I will crash a lot.) Can anyone suggest a build and some equipment/credible brands I might need?
Any help appreciated!
If you note the line hi-lighted in blue, he's flown a couple of toy grade planes already. He now "want's to up his game and build a four channel aircraft". That eliminates ARFs, ARCs and foam planes.
Two of us have recommended the Kadet. B2B recommended the PT 40 with OS power. These fall right into what was asked in the line hi-lighted in red.
Where you say there is no durable wooden kit for a true crash, that is true. It is just as true, however, for a foam plane. What is also true for foam planes is:
1) They are generally very small when compared to balsa kits
2) They are generally very quick to react to control inputs when compared to a balsa kit
3) They area pretty much always electric powered.
4) They are pretty much a "throw away" toy when compared to a balsa kit
5) There is no "investment" such as building time when dealing a foamy. Unlike a kit, if you crash, it's more of a "so what, I'll just go buy another one" type of deal, ideal for today's "instant gratification society".
god even you can't read today... and btw 3 of recommended foamies.... so that makes 3 guys for kits 3 guys for foamies.... go back and READ my entire post.... "sounds like you are going at this building and flying solo... if so get a foamy trainer, like the apprentice or similar, get real flight simulator, find a nice open empty park, and faa registration and voilla.. " I don't usually bash or such, and I have been a member of these forums even before July of 2004 I had a login going back even before then but lost access to the email it was tied to.. I don't post that often, but have recently mainly about our hobby and ama stuff. go and ready every single one of my post... I don't attack people and bash people. I don't start sh1t but won't take s#1t from from anyone...
07-19-2016, 06:48 PM
#27
Trust me, I'm not bashing anyone. I just don't see where a foam plane fits the requirements given in the first post. Had he asked for a recommendation for a plane to play or practice with, I might be agreeing with you, but he didn't. Taking the line where he said he want's to build his own plane, that said, to me anyway, that he is willing to invest the time and money to build a plane. He didn't say he was going it alone but, at the same time, he didn't say he was going to find a club and instructor either. This is one where reading something into the question that may or not be there isn't going to do anything but ruffle feathers more so than they already have been
07-19-2016, 07:06 PM
#28
Trust me, I'm not bashing anyone. I just don't see where a foam plane fits the requirements given in the first post. Had he asked for a recommendation for a plane to play or practice with, I might be agreeing with you, but he didn't. Taking the line where he said he want's to build his own plane, that said, to me anyway, that he is willing to invest the time and money to build a plane. He didn't say he was going it alone but, at the same time, he didn't say he was going to find a club and instructor either. This is one where reading something into the question that may or not be there isn't going to do anything but ruffle feathers more so than they already have been
07-19-2016, 08:46 PM
#29
Hydro Junkie... Thank you! I couldn't have said it better myself. I have another issue with GSXRI000. How can somebody be an aeromodeller if you don't build models? Buying and flying a foamy doesn't even qualify as a hobby in my humble opinion. That's a diversion, a pastime.There's no creative process involved, at all, no investment of one's self beyond what can be found in one's wallet. My sincerest hope for Eli (the O.P.) is he will take heed of the good advice given here and not be discouraged by the negative comments found here.
07-19-2016, 09:29 PM
#30
Hydro Junkie... Thank you! I couldn't have said it better myself. I have another issue with GSXRI000. How can somebody be an aeromodeller if you don't build models? Buying and flying a foamy doesn't even qualify as a hobby in my humble opinion. That's a diversion, a pastime.There's no creative process involved, at all, no investment of one's self beyond what can be found in one's wallet. My sincerest hope for Eli (the O.P.) is he will take heed of the good advice given here and not be discouraged by the negative comments found here.
Our club members who scratch or kit build the the profile pusher jets? our members who fly the espensive foam freewing edf jets, our newest member who is currently training on a sensei, one our members kid who is flying a apprentice... the guys flying the large carbon z or t 34. In your opinion they aren't hobbyist since the foamies aren't hobby class rc planes
Almost every club who has a outreach day for the boyscouts, boy girls club, church, school or such is buddy boxing these flying guess on foamy trainers... So these newcomers who get introduced to the hobby on a foamy and then go out and get one for themselves aren't rc plane hobbyist???
I fly both large scale wood gassers/nitro and park size foamys... we welcome all types of rc plane hobbyist to our clubs, our love of flying is what our members and guess have in common... you sir have a elitist attitude and mentallity... i have built kits before and if you go and read I posted this a few weeks ago for a fall/winter long term super scale detail project I want to start this fall... http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/kit-...nt-p-47-a.html
Last edited by GSXR1000; 07-19-2016 at 09:44 PM.
07-19-2016, 10:07 PM
#31
Wow! That was awesome! How in the world did you come up with all of that? I am not going to sit here and argue about what constitutes an aeromodeller. The word itself is pretty self-explanatory. An aeromodeller is simply someone who builds models that fly. By all means, feel free to use whatever medium you prefer, wood, foam, composite, metal, or something else. I, myself prefer working with wood. As far as me having an elitist attitude, well, at least you called me "sir".
07-19-2016, 10:15 PM
#32
Wow! That was awesome! How in the world did you come up with all of that? I am not going to sit here and argue about what constitutes an aeromodeller. The word itself is pretty self-explanatory. An aeromodeller is simply someone who builds models that fly. By all means, feel free to use whatever medium you prefer, wood, foam, composite, metal, or something else. I, myself prefer working with wood. As far as me having an elitist attitude, well, at least you called me "sir".
Nuff said....
07-19-2016, 11:46 PM
#33
Exactly how am I changing my tune?! I stand behind everything I say (or write). My words are not subject to interpretation and should be taken at face value only! Maybe you need to brush up on your reading comprehension and stop putting words in my mouth!
07-19-2016, 11:53 PM
#34
Okay guys, it's time to let the ruffled feathers go back down. I think we've stated our cases well enough so that anyone reading this thread knows where each of us stands on the subject. Last thing anyone wants is to see Eli's thread get edited or, worse yet, locked down due to those that want to help "overstating their case"
07-20-2016, 03:55 AM
#36
Hey all!
I am a beginner builder and flier (own 2 Walmart quality airplanes.) I am looking to turn my game up and build my own 4 channel aircraft. I'm not looking to make anything fancy (need a durable body as I will crash a lot.) Can anyone suggest a build and some equipment/credible brands I might need?
Any help appreciated!
I am a beginner builder and flier (own 2 Walmart quality airplanes.) I am looking to turn my game up and build my own 4 channel aircraft. I'm not looking to make anything fancy (need a durable body as I will crash a lot.) Can anyone suggest a build and some equipment/credible brands I might need?
Any help appreciated!
2. It sounds like you are going this alone, and you have some experience already flying the Walmart variety of RC airplanes.
3. Learning to fly and learning to build are two vary different things, building is the hobby, and flying is the sport, the best of both worlds would be getting as much flying time in while building.
4. As already mentioned the Sig Kadet is a fantastic choice to start building with, and it a very good flying airplane as well.
5. You can easily start keeping things light by not adding anything more than the plans call for, besides you can't build them to crash, they only hit the ground harder the heavier they are and cause more
damage.
6. Gathering building/lightening experience comes through your own successes and failures alike.
7. There is not a bad time to start learning to build lightweight and the rewards are very high over a porkier counterpart.
So you want to learn to fly a 4 channel airplane, well here it is and it is, and it is going to go against the grain of many on this sight, but who cares, this is about you learning to fly. Horizon Hobby sells a trainer called the Apprentice, it is a 4 channel foam airplane that comes as a bind and fly or a ready to fly, and it is relatively inexpensive to purchase. It has 3 flight modes from beginner to intermediate to expert just by the flip of a switch on your transmitter along with a panic recovery in any of these 3 modes by the touch of a button. This airplane also takes off and lands by itself. There is a video on Horizons sight that verifies everything I have just stated. Believe it or not, the Apprentice flies as well as any Kadet around, you just won't have the pride that comes with building and flying your own airplane. You can be learning to fly the Apprentice while building your Kadet if that is what you decide to build, I have taught my share of folks to fly the old school way over the last 53 years, but recently I have taught several to fly with the Apprentice, and without the use of a buddy box, most are soloing the first day. I know it's freaky but never the less a fact. Replacement parts are readily available at low costs, so it is a great way to learn to fly while learning to build at the same time.
Bob
Last edited by sensei; 07-20-2016 at 04:06 AM.
07-20-2016, 06:19 AM
#37
Hey, fellas. I guess I opened up a can of tuna with the whole "light, straight, and strong" philosophy. To me, it's a no-brainer. There are any number of ways to avoid adding unnecessary weight to an airplane. The first thing I do with a new kit is to look through all of the wood and make sure none of it is heavier than it should be. Balsa can vary in density a LOT! If, say the wing sheeting is rock-hard (it can happen), I'll replace it with some nice medium grade. The same goes for models with all sheet tail surfaces. I replace any wood I determine to be too heavy. Sometimes I will even replace the sheet tail with a stick-built version. Any extra weight behind the C.G. will require more weight in the nose to balance properly. So, keep the tail light! Once the basic airframe is ready to sand, the real "fun" begins... sanding. Sand the airframe (carefully) until you get tired. Rest. Then sand some more. Equipment selection will play a big part in weight reduction. Servos, batteries, covering, engines, pushrods, clevises, control horns, etcetera all come into play here. As you gain experience, these ideas will become more instinctive. Even an ARF can be lighter with careful equipment selection. Right now, I'm putting the finishing touches on a Hanger 9 Christen Eagle. There's a thread for this plane somewhere in the ARF section of RCU. Some guys have stuffed DLE 20's in the nose, which require a separate ignition battery, kill switch, and who knows what else. All up weight was reported to be over 12 pounds (!) Mine, with a Supertigre G90 and the best hardware I could find (I tossed all of H9's stuff) comes in at 9.134 pounds. Which airplane would you rather fly?
07-20-2016, 06:49 AM
#38
I thought I was done with this thread. If you re-read my post, carefully, there is a line, and I quote, " As you gain experience, these ideas will become more instinctive."
07-20-2016, 07:02 AM
#40
1. To try answering your question of needing a durable body as you stated you will crash allot. The truth is if you crash a balsa built airplane, it is going to get damaged, if you crash hard enough, it will get destroyed and there is no fun in that.
2. It sounds like you are going this alone, and you have some experience already flying the Walmart variety of RC airplanes.
3. Learning to fly and learning to build are two vary different things, building is the hobby, and flying is the sport, the best of both worlds would be getting as much flying time in while building.
4. As already mentioned the Sig Kadet is a fantastic choice to start building with, and it a very good flying airplane as well.
5. You can easily start keeping things light by not adding anything more than the plans call for, besides you can't build them to crash, they only hit the ground harder the heavier they are and cause more
damage.
6. Gathering building/lightening experience comes through your own successes and failures alike.
7. There is not a bad time to start learning to build lightweight and the rewards are very high over a porkier counterpart.
So you want to learn to fly a 4 channel airplane, well here it is and it is, and it is going to go against the grain of many on this sight, but who cares, this is about you learning to fly. Horizon Hobby sells a trainer called the Apprentice, it is a 4 channel foam airplane that comes as a bind and fly or a ready to fly, and it is relatively inexpensive to purchase. It has 3 flight modes from beginner to intermediate to expert just by the flip of a switch on your transmitter along with a panic recovery in any of these 3 modes by the touch of a button. This airplane also takes off and lands by itself. There is a video on Horizons sight that verifies everything I have just stated. Believe it or not, the Apprentice flies as well as any Kadet around, you just won't have the pride that comes with building and flying your own airplane. You can be learning to fly the Apprentice while building your Kadet if that is what you decide to build, I have taught my share of folks to fly the old school way over the last 53 years, but recently I have taught several to fly with the Apprentice, and without the use of a buddy box, most are soloing the first day. I know it's freaky but never the less a fact. Replacement parts are readily available at low costs, so it is a great way to learn to fly while learning to build at the same time.
Bob
2. It sounds like you are going this alone, and you have some experience already flying the Walmart variety of RC airplanes.
3. Learning to fly and learning to build are two vary different things, building is the hobby, and flying is the sport, the best of both worlds would be getting as much flying time in while building.
4. As already mentioned the Sig Kadet is a fantastic choice to start building with, and it a very good flying airplane as well.
5. You can easily start keeping things light by not adding anything more than the plans call for, besides you can't build them to crash, they only hit the ground harder the heavier they are and cause more
damage.
6. Gathering building/lightening experience comes through your own successes and failures alike.
7. There is not a bad time to start learning to build lightweight and the rewards are very high over a porkier counterpart.
So you want to learn to fly a 4 channel airplane, well here it is and it is, and it is going to go against the grain of many on this sight, but who cares, this is about you learning to fly. Horizon Hobby sells a trainer called the Apprentice, it is a 4 channel foam airplane that comes as a bind and fly or a ready to fly, and it is relatively inexpensive to purchase. It has 3 flight modes from beginner to intermediate to expert just by the flip of a switch on your transmitter along with a panic recovery in any of these 3 modes by the touch of a button. This airplane also takes off and lands by itself. There is a video on Horizons sight that verifies everything I have just stated. Believe it or not, the Apprentice flies as well as any Kadet around, you just won't have the pride that comes with building and flying your own airplane. You can be learning to fly the Apprentice while building your Kadet if that is what you decide to build, I have taught my share of folks to fly the old school way over the last 53 years, but recently I have taught several to fly with the Apprentice, and without the use of a buddy box, most are soloing the first day. I know it's freaky but never the less a fact. Replacement parts are readily available at low costs, so it is a great way to learn to fly while learning to build at the same time.
Bob
I even suggested building more than a trainer plane. I guess those other guys didn't even read my 2nd paragraph.
Your suggestion of building as he is learning on a foamy is even better... and he can still build a kit, he can choose to build a 2nd plane instead of a trainer, since the foamy will be his primary trainer...
07-20-2016, 07:20 AM
#41
Senior Member
A Few Tips
Hey all!
I am a beginner builder and flier (own 2 Walmart quality airplanes.) I am looking to turn my game up and build my own 4 channel aircraft. I'm not looking to make anything fancy (need a durable body as I will crash a lot.) Can anyone suggest a build and some equipment/credible brands I might need?
Any help appreciated!
I am a beginner builder and flier (own 2 Walmart quality airplanes.) I am looking to turn my game up and build my own 4 channel aircraft. I'm not looking to make anything fancy (need a durable body as I will crash a lot.) Can anyone suggest a build and some equipment/credible brands I might need?
Any help appreciated!
You will want several types of glue and many sizes / quantities of clamps to help hold the wood in place as the glue sets. I don't know what your budget is, but if you're looking to continue on building, you may consider a jig kit such as this: http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXK258 . It can help you build straight and learn some good techniques.
A LARGE FLAT SURFACE IS HIGHLY RECOMMENDED. This can be overlooked. Try and keep your working areas clean and clear while building.
Read, Read, Read! Search threads for "tips and tricks" of building, you can learn important information very quickly. Little tricks such as covering your drawings prior to building is a good idea. Try and keep your plans (or make copies), you may need them at a later date to make repairs from stock wood; i.e. creating a new firewall.
Be patient. I remember my first few builds (more than 20 years ago), and the glue couldn't dry fast enough for me. Speaking of glue, try to keep good ventilation in your work area especially if you're using CA ("super glue"). All of the glues have positives and negatives. I recommend Titebond 2 for your build. It is very strong, easy to clean and water resistant. It can be purchased at most hardware / big box stores. When something on your aircraft breaks, you can be sure it will NOT be at a glue joint!
Purchase a sealing iron and practice covering techniques on scrap pieces of wood prior to covering your aircraft.
Are you located in the U.S.? If so, I recommend purchase a SIG kit as suggested or look at Tower for some of their trainers.
Bigger is better. If you can afford a .40-.60 size, I would advise you to do so. It makes everything easier. Easier to build, cover, install components, balance, see in the air and FLY! Don't spend too much money on an engine (if you're going glow / gas). Save the money for a good radio system or future builds. If you go electric, you will save on glow fuel and a field box. However, there is more up front cost of battery charger and batteries for a motor / electric propulsion system. I have both, and just like the glues you use, they all have their positives and negatives.
**If you go the electric motor route, watch your fingers! Don't put the propeller on if you have the batteries connected to the ESC while programming. If you purchase a Futaba system, be sure to reverse the "throttle" channel.
PLEASE, don't store glow fuel or LiPo batteries inside your house.
Use fully charged, good batteries in your aircraft and transmitter.
Identify your wiring, harness and channels within the fuselage. Keep it clean and tidy with zip ties, clamps, straps, Velcro.
Consider your transportation. Be sure you have enough space in your vehicle to transport the aircraft. I prefer assembling my aircraft at home prior to arriving at the airfield. Just take it out of the vehicle and start flying. I don't like assembling wings, struts, receiver gear, etc. at the airport. It is necessary for larger aircraft, but maybe you can have it ready to fly before you get to the airfield.
Balance your aircraft and set control throws according to your manual. More throw of the control surfaces beyond the manufacturer's recommendations isn't going to make it fly like a 3D airplane. Read the manual several times prior to initial building. If you have any questions, just start a thread and we can help you along the way. It helps to upload photographs for fellow hobbyists to review and make informed decisions.
HAVE FUN and enjoy your experiences!
Listen to fellow modelers who have been where you are. Knowledge and guidance from fellow modelers can save you time, effort, heartache and money.
Register your name with the FAA sUAS. I also recommend getting an AMA membership.
I wish you good luck and clear skies. I look forward to seeing you and your new aircraft at the flying field!
-PD
