Hello all,

I am 70% complete with my Dreamer kit (wings sheeted, hinged, sanded, ready for covering). I have started to build the fuselage and am running into a problem. I am getting all the bulkheads put in correctly and have assembled the cabane struts (no mean feat!) and I'm ready to join the tail section together,....but...before I do that, how do I put in the servos!?!?!?! I have built a shelf in the A-A section for the fuel tank, which I think I can do for the Throttle/Elevator/Rudder servos, but I'm not sure if they should go in upside down or rightside up.

Also, I'm using the bellcrank system in the lower wing per assembly instructions, but I would like to verify that I can use a single servo for both cranks. I'm thinking that I can link both sides to the single servo on a cut down 6 sided control arm (the two closest arms). I would just like someones wisdom who has done this plane before. This is my first kit ( I know, I know...bad idea!). Any help would be greatly appreciated.

BTW, I have done a forum search for this information and have come up with bupkis.....................[&o]

donhef,

I am currently building this kit as well but I'm not quite as far along as you are. I can't say that I have any suggestions but I would love to hear what other's say in response to this. I agree there aren't many threads here on the Dreamer. It's an old kit that not too many people know about or have ever built. I've come across about three people on here that have built it. I too have a question for the aileron servo. I think I want to use two servos but like you I don't know whether to mount them upright or upside down. The servo will have to be very low profile to fit in the wing and have the arm line up with the holes in the wing ribs. As for the other three servos, I think you have it right. The fuel tank will go between the engine bulkhead and the next bulkhead and the servos should mount in the space above the lower wing opening. I think they will mount with the servo shaft facing down. That way you can access them once the plane is completed.
This is my second plane, I built the 4*40 as my first one and I can't imagine building the Dreamer as a first one. You are pretty gutsy. It is very difficult without having building experience. Sounds like you are doing pretty good though.
Did you use the interplane struts in the wings? My instructions said that they are not functional on this plane so I left them out but I have hard time believing that they aren't functional.
I am very interested to see what people say about this stuff.

I'll post some construction pics from mine soon. I used two servos in the wings under hatches that I scratch built. Where you mount the servos depends on how you plane will ballance. What engine are you using?

Hey Mike,

I'm going to use one of my OS 46FX's in it. Right now I have 2 Avistars (1 I rebuilt into a taildragger after a crash) and have yet to solo since I started the hobby late last season. I will also be using 1 set of the Futaba S3004 servos from one of those planes. Pictures would be a great help! Thanks!

Hurricane,

I will be using the interplane struts for this one. I know that the instructions (Yeah, Right!) stated that they are of no real use on this plane, but I'm sorry, a Biplane just isn't a Biplane without the outer struts. It just gives it that look, you know what I mean? I epoxied the struts to the lower wing and built boxes around them to be able to put covering on around them.

I was sitting at the table last night looking at the fuselage and trying to picture how to mount the servos.......started to get a headache, so I backed off for a while. Then I started to look at the lower wing and that servo problem. I guess that I will just have to bite the bullet and take one of the Avistars apart to get things right on this plane.

Thanks for the help!

I know what you mean about the struts. I agree that a bipe just isn't a bipe without them. So how to they connect to the upper wing? Can you elaborate on what you said about building boxes around them so you could cover them? Don't you have to cut the struts out of plywood? They didn't come with my kit.
I thought about doing the servos like Mike said but I'm not sure how to do that. I would love to see pictures of those. That does sound easier than the bellcrank setup.

Mike, I know you used the Webra 50 but for the sake of money I decided to buy the TT Pro 46. I hope it is good enough.

N/P Huricane!

Okay, the struts are made from 2 pieces of I believe them to be either 1/8 or 1/16th plywood. You should have gotten them in one of the bags of precut parts. They are abt 8-10 inches long (sorry, I'm at work and I'm trying to remember the dimensions) and 1 inch wide. Sheet #2 will show how they are to be shaped, along with what rib to "notch" and where, although I didn't do that. I went ahead and attached them to the inside (towards the fuselage that is) side of the ribs. I used 5 min epoxy to attach them with no cutting into the ribs to make sure there was no question of the structural integrity. I then took a piece of 1/8 X 1/8 basswood stick and cut it the length of the rib from front webbing to rear webbing, slid it next to the strut and CA'd it in. From there I put on the capstrips. I wish that I could draw it out and attach it here, but I'm very limited to what I can do at work.

I was also thinking of doing the separate servos, since that what was suggested to me by some of the folks in my flying club, but just looking at the cost per servo, just can't do it......My Wife's pretty good about my hobby, but if she finds out that I'm spending more on 1 kit than on both of my other 2 planes combined, she'll flip! Anyhow, I think I can make the bellcrank system work, just have to verify that I can use a single servo and that it'll work the cranks as needed.

Hopefully, I'll have this thing done before June...I promised my Daughter that I'd fly it over her Graduation/Birthday party with a banner behind it saying Happy Birthday and Graduation to her. She thinks that would be "so cool!" Now I have to figure out how to do that...just another brain excercise.........................[&o]

Thanks for the explination. My kit is really old and I got it from a friend's dad who has had it on a shelf for years. My instructions say that since they aren't functional that I had to cut them myself if I wanted them. In other words, they didn't come in the bag of ply parts. So you epoxied them to the upper and lower? How do you get the wings onto the fuse if they are connected?
What servos are you using? Can't you get some basic servos for $15 each? I just don't know what to do. If Mike posts his pics soon I will take a look and see if it is worth the trouble to do it his way.

That graduation/birthday thing sounds really cool. That will be interesting to see how you do that.

No, I haven't attached them to the top wing yet. I'm still trying to figure that out too. What I'd like to do is make some sort of hatch on either side of the top wing where these would go so I could attach them w/small nuts/bolts. I think that this would be good in case the incidence needs to be adjusted. That's how the top wing is set up on my Instructors Bipe, the outer struts are on a slider and can adjust with the cabane struts if he need to adjust incidence. Just takes some time to look at it and puzzle it out.

I'll probably be using the S3004's I have in one of my Avistars, just to keep costs down. Unless I can substitute another make that'll work w/my transmitter that is. I saw a HiTech flight pack on the Tower site for $99.00, 4 servos, Rx, battery and switch harness, just need to include the crystal. A little cheaper than the regular Futaba, but not by much. It says it is "Futaba compatable" but I'm not too sure what that means.

If I can figure out how to fly the banner and can also figure out how to post pictures w/o having my own website, I'll be happy to let you see how that comes out. Maybe the beginning of a new advertisement niche? "R/C Sky Advertising" Ahhhhhh...I can see it now.........

Yeah, that's about the only way I can figure to do that struts. I will have to go get some ply and cut them out and get them installed. Maybe MikeSell can offer some input on this one too.
I was also told that the Hitec units will work with Futaba and long as you get the right crystal for the receiver. Actually MikeSell told me to go for the Hitec 555 receiver. A little expensive but maybe they all cost that much.
I've never posted pictures on there but it must be fairly easy. I would love to see the banner set up. You should go for it, that R/C sky advertising sounds good to me. If a man can make a living doing R/C aerial photography I'm sure the advertising could work too.

N/P! Well, home to the building board I go. I'll keep you up to date w/my building...hopefully MikeSell will be able to get the pic's up soon.

Still don't have the pics...but I used full sized servos for the elevator and rudder. They are mounted so they are accessable inside the fuse at the rear of the bottom wing. I used nyrods to take them to the back of the fuse. I used a sub micro servo unded the cockpit (again accessable by removing the bottom wing) for the throttle. I used mini servos in the wings mounted narrow way inside the wing so only the arm protrudes. I'll post pictures in the morning.
The 555 works very well but you might also consider the electron. Same dual conversion, one more channel, less weight. I have the platnum 7s, supreme 7 & 8, superslim 8, 535, 555 and electron all work great.
The reason that the struts are nonfunctioning is that they don't fasten to anything. You build a pocket in each wing and the interplaner strut is captured in the pockets when the wing is rubberbanded on. It will keep the wings from getting closer together but if they spread apart the strut just falls out. It does look better with them on but mine are nonfunctional also.

The first two are of the dreamer. The other is of a Herr Pitts.

I built the hatches this way. The other picture is another way to place the servo under a hatch.

This picture shows a Sukhoi that used a heavier engine than recommended. I moved the servos to the tail to balance the plane without adding overall weight. The last two pictures are my dreamer before christmas and covering.

Awesome! Thanks for the pictures Mike, that helps a lot. I assume that everything balanced out just right with those servo locations? Did you have to add any weight anywhere? I'm pretty servo illiterate so bare with me. What is the advantage of the sub micro servo? Is it just smaller and light? I guess you don't need a lot of torque for the throttle so that isn't an issue, right? And you went with micro servos in the wing because they are lower profile? How much torque do you need for each aileron servo when you use one for each side?
What kind of covering is that?

Thanks again.

That's great! Thanks Mike for the pics! That really puts the problem back into perspective.

I have gotten nyrods for the elevator and the rudder (I took the advice of the Tower site and ordered the accessories they suggested) and I'm going to go ahead and use your layout for them. For the throttle I got the flexcable to attach the servo w/the engine. That seems like the way to go w/this setup. BTW, I can get away w/using a standard servo for the throttle, right?

For the ailerons........well, since everything is already sheeted and glued, I'll have to stick to the bellcranks I guess. You said you used the 555 servos for your bipe. Those are HiTech's right? If I use 2 of them in the center of the lower wing, will each one have enough Oomph! to work each aileron by themselves? I'm still learning this also.

Yeah, I had a feeling when I looked at the plans and read the instructions that the Interplane struts wouldn't work too well unless they were attached to the wings in some sort of semi-permanent way. I figure that if I go ahead and epoxy the bottom and screw the tops that it will give more structual support for the top wing, especially when doing loops and banked turns. I don't trust rubber bands to something like this at all!

Thanks again for everything! Also, have you covered yours yet? Would sure like to see that. I'll be using Towercote yellow and medium blue for mine. I also plan on putting black & clear checkered Monokote sheets on the bottom of the wings and horizontal stab for looks and visual aid.

THe Hitec 555 is the receiver. I don't think he specified the brand of servos.

Ah..got it. I thought that's what he meant........I went over to the Tower site after I posted here and double checked. Like I said, still learning.

And, Thanks to a payroll windfall (I got my annual bonus today) I'll be able to get all the final things I need! Woo Hoo!!! So, lets see..........Futaba flightpack, two extra micro servos for the wing, crystal and new engine!!!!! Now I'll have 3 planes to go to the field w/this season...Ohhhhhhh Yeahhhhhh!!!!!!!

Now, as long as the Better Half doesn't find out!!!!!!!!

Correct! Throttle requires little torque and the small servo size leaves more room inside while the plane is still lighter. The mini servos in the wings are higher torque units than necessary at 48 oz/in. One standard servo will do (about 42 oz/in). The belcrank linkages and one std servo weighed more than the extensions and two mini servos. I have quite a number of servos and select the servos by what I have available at that time. I mainly use Dymond, Cirrus and Hitec servos. I like dymond servos because of their high torque, price and reliability.
My servo placement was derived by the weight of the engine/tuned pipe, full cowl, and the type of covering job I planned. The .46fx weighs more than the Webra .50 I installed and more of that weight is in the front because of the std muffler. Your engine will have quite a bit of power but not quite the level of this one.
The covering shown on the wing is blue supercoverite. This unpainted material flows better around curves than any film I've tried. When painted it holds up to years of use and still looks good.
You may have commited yourself to something too difficult to do. That banner will be very difficult to handle. Fullsize planes take off and then "hook" their banner for towing, then release it before landing. The larger the plane the easier this task will be. The Dreamer is not a large or docile performer. Without pretty fair piloting skills the plane itself is a handful but with the added complications of the banner it may only be crashworthy.
My ailerons were enlarged slightly rather than installing another set on the upper wing to allow snappier performance. Don't be afraid of those rubberbands, the wings are small. Trying to make these interplaner struts functional will make it harder to transport and much more hassle at the field to set up.
This plane is still not ready to hit the air but should be early in the season. I have too many planes at least this far along and not finished to focus only on this one. I must have at least six or seven air worthy that haven't seen their maiden flight yet. I can only take three or four to the field at a time.

Dymond servos? I've never seen these. Where do you get them?

I don't about the supercoverite. I will have to look into that, sounds like a good option. I've been sweating the covering job because of the tail of the plane. Looks like it is going to tough to get that to look good.

Thanks.

Wow! Thanks for the info and advice Mike! I went ahead and made my order so now I'll have a choice of either the S3004 servos for the aileron and throttle hookups or 1 of those and the two Micro Servos I ordered as well. They are much lighter than the standard ones I believe. So I'll attach one each to the separate ailerons.

I also ordered a new Magum 46 engine to go on this plane. I hope it'll be alright. I only have limited experience with the OS 46FX's I have and have been quite happy with those so far. Hey, it was on sale......

Also, I haven't heard of Dymond servos either.....are they a specialty brand? I would like to see what they offer.

This will also be my second full covering job for a plane. The first one I did with my second trainer went pretty well, but I used Monokote for that (told the Wife she could pick the colors since I wanted her to go w/me this season and learn to fly with her own plane) they had the colors she wanted (metallic Plum and Aluminum). I can't wait to see how that one flies.

Regards the banner project, Yeah, I think your right.....in hind sight I may have shot off my mouth too soon (imagine that!). Maybe some pre-tests with one of my trainers will show me the folly of this idea. Well............folks told the Wrights that flying was impossible...................

Thanks again for all the information!

Which micro servos did you buy? Congrats on the bonus! I could use one of those right about now.
I found the Dymond servos and they have their own website. www.rc-dymond.com Mike, correct me if I'm wrong but that is what I found. They don't have a lot of description on the servos so I didn't stay on the site very long. I'm think the Hitec is what I'm going to go with.

You have the correct website. Click radio equipment, click servo, click info. The torque, size, weight, and features are displayed. I use the D200 servos for my 1/2a planes and for .40 size throttle or dual servo ailerons. The D60s are used in my 1/2a planes, electrics and for throttles. The D4000 is a good standard servo. I find it hard to find the features like ball bearings, high torque specs and price that compare.
I have the most standard servos from HiTec and have never had any complaints.

Hey Hurricane,

Sorry about no reply last few days, I try to stay away from the computer over a weekend. I get enough of it at work.

Anyhow, I got the following micro servos:

http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/WTI0001P?&I=LXPB32

They seem to sound good. I'll let you know when they come in. I also ordered the Y-connector so I can use the ailerons as flaps. I'll have to ask my Instructor how to do that. I use a Futaba 6EXA transmitter so I have the option of using Flaperons. Maybe this will be an advantage in landing.....I don't know. I still have a lot to learn about the flight aspect of this hobby, but the building....... I can get used to this.

Will keep you up to date.

donhef,

I know what you are saying. I didn't check this all weekend either for the same reasons as you. That's the last thing I want to do on the weekend.
I was looking at that servo too. The Hitec HS-55 is also a consideration for the same price. You using it for throttle and ailerons? I was wondering about the Y-connector myself. I too have a 6 channel Futaba that allows for flaperons. I don't know exactly how that works either. If you find out before I do let me know and I will do the same.

I hear you, building is a blast!

MikeSell,
Thanks for the info.