Just had this pop up, thought you may be interested in voting.

http://www.rcuniverse.com/community/...=125&Vote=Vote

I voted (for kit of course). Perhaps if all of us do it, we can skew the results and all the manufacturers will scrap their artfs and go back to kits

KIT...... OF COURSE

Kits for me.
Joe[8D]

OK, but why the secrecy about the results???? I for one would like to know how the polling is going.

I was wondering the same.
Joe

Maybe so people can't expect something to happen if it leaned some way.

I for one would be very interested in knowing the results.

there's something else out there besides kits??????[sm=confused.gif]

Kit for me too! I would also like to see the results. My expectations are'nt that high, I go by what I see at the field. Mostly trainers and kennel planes. Just a few kits and plans built. Why didnt they list plans?
Edwin

Amen Brothers.......KITS,KITS,KITS,KITS, and more KITS. LOL

Ya know, I've wondered this.. I've asked this, and I'm curious to know; why, by how much, and when..

When did ARFs become the plane type of choice? They say we wanted ARFs, and that the industry is listening to us, but I beleive it is the other way around, that the industry is making these ARFs (Because of lower apparent costs, cheap labour, and all the other excuses). RCU, probably one of teh best places with one of teh largest RC groups to get an 'average sampling' always seem to prove they want kits more than ARFs, yet ARFs are always being pushed... Still, no market results (sales figures, comparing kits vs. arfs, our real wants, our requests for new.. ARFs or kits, etc.. ) We are teh buying public, and I would very much like to see some data on 'our group'.. I feel it is the big companies that are 'instilling' this trend..

As for the poll, RCU seem to do a few 'trandom polls' for 'marketing purposes'. I beleive they are gathering responces to try and paint the 'RC world' picture. This is jsut one of teh many polls they have done, and the results will go to the highest bidder (or whomever will pay the posted $$). Another revenue stream for RCU..

ARFs are the new band wagon. Loads are jumping on (especially manufacturers and distributors), ignoring that the old method is just as good and still popular.

How often do the magazines review a kit v ARF? not often. Why? Again, the new band wagon effect. Other things aswell:
- ARFs are the new kids in town. They get the marketing budget, which means the magazines gets them for free to review. As few new kits are around the old ones are not reviewed - magazine would have to spend some money.
- Reviewers can review more and quicker - therefore earn more money for their reviews.

So the magazines are concentrating on ARFs, and you get a vicious cycle.

Silly really, all the UK mags still do at least one free plan every month, so they obviously think there is something in it, and every now and then they organise a plan pack or "kit" for a free plan and say they are amazed at the response. You'd think they would pick up on that.

Don't confuse the posts you see on RCU with reality. I doubt even all of the RCU members (including the ones that rarely post anything) represent reality either. If you want to see how far from reality RCU is, take a look at the member survey on the AMA web site. Just to take an example, if you post anything on RCU saying what's a great R/C magazine, you'll hear R/C Report, over and over. Take a look in the survey, and you'll see a very different picture. Ask on RCU what people think of the AMA mag, Model Aviation. You'll hear that it sucks, not even good enough to line the parakeet cage with. But according to the survey, a huge percentage of AMA members not only read every page, but they keep old issues and refer back to them frequently. That's just a few examples off the top of my head.

You may be right that the folks that post on RCU prefer kits over ARFs (but I doubt it). But that has nothing to do with reality. How many people do you think post most of the messages on RCU? Take a look at the planes at your field. The new ones. Kits or ARFs?

I started out in RC about 20 years ago, built my trainer, and have loved building to this day. Sprink-Good Points, I never thought of the Mags loving ARF's because they are quick, the can pump out 3-4 ARF's per issue, wow. Dr-Wogz-I often wonder that too, it came on quick and hard, pushing ARF's. So what do we Kit, Plans,Builders going to do? I sure would like to pick up a Mag and see a nice Review on a Kit or see some scratch building. Last issue Fly RC had a review of a Skyshark kit, I about fell off the chair. Loved seeing that! I have saved all my old Issues of RCM, MAN,MA and if you go back 10-15 years , it is AMAZING. Come back KITS!!!!! LOL I will confess I have done a few ARF's, but will not touch another, enough said. I would like to see this hobby come back to what it once was with Kits, Plans, etc. Not trying to get a war going, but it's nice to talk about liking kits with some fellow RC Folks.

Heres what I really love about the deal. Some fools out there really believe some Chinese girl can make a plane that I will really be happy with VS. I go pick out my own plane, build it myself, on my table, my choice of glue or glues, make modifications for a larger engine if needed, quality covering in my color choices, American made hardware. ETC. ETC. ETC.
We all know the deal, but it somehow always comes back to us from a 2-3 year {expert flyer} that we are just old, dumb, and won't give current technology a chance, Technology huh, exploding planes that cost alot less, and no building.
Arfs are not getting better, They are designed to fail prematurely. We buy an arf, we lose another American factory.
I will go off on this subject as bad today as I did 20 years ago. The planes are made to fall apart, and that is what they do......... pure and simple. End of rant!
I have to go glue on another piece or two tonight guys.............................KITS ONLY!! AMERICAN BY CHOICE !!

Art,

I'm amazed you aren't thinking outside the box on this. There are kits and there is balsa wood that wants to be cut into a kit

Bob

I'm with you on this one, I'll be scratch building my first plane this winter from a plan, a .60 Super Hots,
Joe

There is also something else than kits- scratch projects!!!

you are correct. there are hundreds of 3 vu's out there. start digging in the obscure books in the library. its worth while to show up at the field with a new-- "what the hell is that?" what kit is it? on and on. help those young fellows and don't forget there are a lot of the old timers who could interested. dick

What a f'cked up poll. It should tell you before that we won't see the results. I'm so happy I gave an incorrect answer onpurpose.

I'm with you Nuker! I was suprised to not see SCRATCH listed in there. I buy mostly Brit mags because of the free plans each month!
I like the pull-out plans just in case anyone cares and have even built a few!

MODELERS certainly don't do ARFs. And you have to press a MODELER to confess that he ever builds from kits. There are certainly some well made ARFs (not the $79.95 specials, to be sure) out there. But I hate going to the field and finding that all the planes are ARF mid-wing aerobatic clones. B-ARF!

I like kits. But I have moved away from them lately. I have been investing in tools and will be building from plans and from scratch more often. I want some kits, notably some Skyshark kits. But right now I cannot afford to buy a pile of kits. So I will be plan building for a while.

Mark Shuman

Kits rock. But I think I'd like scratch building better, if I ever tried it.........I don't have the tools right now to cut my own parts though.

I like scale planes........it seems I'm rarely totally satisfied with the look of even pretty good scale kits, there's often something in the basic design that I don't quite like. Plus many of the planes I'd like to model someday aren't available, at least not in the sizes I want. It would be great to be able to take a 3-view of the plane, draw plans based on this, and make the plane. I'd also like to be able to experiment with my own designs. But considering I've only built 3 complete kits (one of which was a Grasshopper, which barely qualifies ) I guess I better knock out a few more kits before tackling scratch building.

I've always felt ARFs were good for newbies so they don't have a huge time/effort investment only to smash the plane, and I can see how they are good for folks who don't have time to build or just don't care to, but I really get annoyed with the way they've take over the market. I just got a Tower catalog for the first time in several years.......it's only been about 3 or 4 years probably, and I could see the ARF activity picking up then, but I was surprised at the number of ARFs in this latest catalog. The saturation of ARF'ness is disgusting.

-Matt Bailey

Same opinion kits, though when I buy them I think I made a mistake.......