Hi guys... Guess I'll start with an introduction... I'm a computer geek who's tired of not being able to see or touch or measure what he makes. I've had this burning desire to build something tangible. Secondly, I've had a dream of having a Steen Skybolt (1:1 Scale) since I was 15 years old. The latter ain't happenin', and the former must happen, for the sake of my sanity. So, I'm getting back into modeling after <transmission garbled> years as a more affordable way to service my need, and plan to build the plane I've always wanted, because it's the plane I've always wanted.

I've been reading all the threads I can find around here on the GP Skybolt, and I'm pleased and a little surprised at it's popularity. I marked up brownie points for myself at realizing there's a problem with access to the gas tank after looking at the construction manual I found online, before reading the threads that mentioned it. What I'm planning is a pretty straight forward (from the plans) build, watching weight in general (especially in the tail) but not going to any extremes to lighten the plane or the tail. I plan on taking my time, and using the long build time to learn to fly before I try and put my 'Bolt in the sky. Most of the people I see are using 4-stroke engines... I'm planning on an O.S. .91 2-stroke and a 14x7 3 bladed prop. I'm also planning on a Futaba 6EAX radio... I don't really need 6 channels, but I wanted dual rates...

So... am I an Idiot?

Any advice? I'm open to it... just realize that "Don't do it." is probably the only piece of advice that will likely not get a lot of consideration.

What do people use for shop tables? I was planning on getting a solid core door from my local building supply house and making me a table. That ought to be flat enough to build wings on.

Tell me anything you'd like to tell a new builder... Tools, Techniques, preferred glues, covering materials... whatever.

Thanks!

Kenneth "Badger" Scott
(It surprises me how many ARF and RTF planes there are out there... I can understand a RTF trainer... but I want to build what I fly.)

Nothing that you've said seems out of line to me except I might recommend that you find a club and maybe see if they have a trainer that you can use to learn to fly...it'll save you some bucks and some initial risk while you learn. The club I belong to has a number of trainers available for newbie's to learn on. I'd also look into getting a Super Sportster, 4 * 60, or Tiger 2 for 1st low wing aircraft before you move on to the biplane....going from a trainer to a biplane would be a huge jump in my opinion.

Of course, I'm a go for it all type of person so I bought an ARF trainer along with my P51 kit to build over the next year. That was almost a year ago. Now I have a Super Sportster (my second plane), EDGE 540 (my 3rd plane), Fokker DVII (my 4th plane), a TF P51 (should fly in 2-3 months from now) on one work bench, and a GP Super Skybolt on my new bench at my Dad's hous just begging to be built.

As far as the engine goes, I'd think a 2 stoke 91 sized engine will probably be enough engine but a bi-plane just begs...screams out for a 4 stroke engine!!!!

Finally, save yourself some heartache and purchase a simulator to save yourself some heartache and shop time if you haven't already. If you're a computer geek your computer will be able to handle the program.

Happy flying.

From a flying skill stand point the Skybolt should be a 3rd or 4th airplane. Depending on what school of thought you want to come from there is either a 3 or 4 step plan. 3 step plan: a trainer, a forgiving low wing model (4* ,Goldberg Tiger), whatever you want. 4 step plan: trainer, a high wing aircraft thats not a trainer (Big Stick, Cub, Sig Rascal), Low wing plane, what ever you want.

You said you have never built before, in that case you have a lot to learn and many tools and gadgets to buy. The first plane I built althouth it was built straight and true (and garnered the occasional compliment at the field) . I was still not really pleased with the result. I learned the hard way by doing stuff wrong and having to re do it. Based on that I think you should build a kit or two before you try to tackle the Skybolt to make sure it is both flyable and pleasing to the eye .

As far as building tools and the like go, like many people here. I use a hollow core door for my work bench. Most of my fitting and gluing I do on a piece of MDF a 2' x 4' piece cost less than $10 so I consider it disposable I cut on it, sand on it and ocassionaly tack glue parts to it. after about 3 models my board is starting to look pretty ratty so I am about due to go buy another piece. X acto knives, straight razor blades, razor saw t-pins, covering iron and sanding blocks are must haves you can buy sanding blocks from Gp planes if you want but it is much cheaper to make your own mine are made from aluminium "T" extrusions, you could even make your own from a 1x 4 (if its straight).

These tools are not needed but sure do help dial calipers, weight bags and a dremel tool.

OK Ken, my turn to pitchin.If you want to build this plane, the do it. Go slow take your time, ask questions and you'll be fine. Get your flying skills beyond a trainer but the Skybolt flies very well. I was surprised how stable mine was the first time I flew it. There's tons of info on RCU about this plane and if you have any further questions then post them, we're glad to help. One word of advice..........for the love of God don't put a 2 stroke in this plane!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks for the feedback, guys;

Prossa: I'm planning on getting RealFlight G3 and the #2 expansion which has the Skybolt included. I'll seriously consider a Low wing... that makes a lot of sense. I'm already scoping out the clubs in the area to see where I think I might feel most comfortable.

Daryl Y: The staging approach to working up to the 'Bolt seems like a good idea... (see above) Doesn't the top of the hollow core flex a lot?

RC_Sport: You like the YS 1.10FZ in the Skybolt, right? Man... that's $360 bucks compared to $200 for the O.S. .91... and with the 2 stroke I can use a Pitts muffler... I don't know why, but having the head poking out the side of the cowl, with the muffler hidden just looks better to me than the inverted 4 stroke with the muffler hanging out at some crazy angle... Why so adamant about the 4-stroke? Are there better muffler solutions for an inverted 4-stroke?

Thanks;

Kenneth "Badger" Scott

I never did address your question about building boards.

Right now I'm on a 2' x 3' GP wooden building board setting on top of a love seat in my apartment living room.

Thank goodness my dad allowed me to take over the front room of his house to entice me to come over more often.

I just finished building a 3' x 7' workbench made of 3/4" MDF framed on 1" x 2" framing and mounted on 3" x 3" legs. The surface was covered with galvanized steel sheeting as per cafineman's directions at www.airfieldmodel.com

Now all I have to do is finish the fixtures for use as jigs and I have a super super building surface for my Skybolt!!!!

Pictures of the build to follow once I get started.

rc-sport has great tips! Thanks!!

Best of luck doing the build melessqr, you've got some great advice so far from what I can see.

You can also get pitts mufflers for a 4 stroke........they are not just 2 stroke specific. One other thing to keep in ming while building this plane......don't go overboard with glue. Use just what is needed and no more. I've got a buddy who built one and it's just a tad heavy. OK......well a litttle more than a tad, but because of it it's a ill flying brick. Just something to keep in the back of your mind when your building.



My .02



Neo Out!!!!!

Ken, I think a Saito 100 would be great for that plane, I think they run about $279.00. I have a Saito 120 in mine and its way more than I need.

Ok, Hoooold on a minute....

I am not going to say "Don't do it", but if you're gonna do it, do it right.

First, Great Planes kits are among the best out there, but the Sky Bolt is about the most difficult kit they make. So aside from needing some flying experience, you'll need some building experience.

Fortunately, you can kill two birds with one stone.

Now I have taken everything you have said into consideration, and here is what I would recommend for a course of action and why:

First, to save some money you're first plane should be able to use the same engine you plan to put in the Sky Bolt. You can get the OS 90 2-stroke, (even though it would break my heart) But another suggestion would be a Magnum 91 4-stroke (Under $200) It is a good engine with a good reputation and it will pull a Sky Bolt very nicely (I flew my Sky Bolt for many years with an OS 91 which is very comparable)

Now, to get the NEEDED building experience, - and since you're looking to skip the 3 or 4 step program (Assuming that the Sim will help you skip the first step) Get a Sig Four Star 60.

It will allow you to learn the valuable building skills that will be required when you build the Sky Bolt (You don't want to make your beginner's mistakes on your beautiful Sky Bolt, do you?)

Now you have a kit to build which will work very well with that engine, and you will be able to hone your flying skills for when you are ready to fly the Sky Bolt.

But I will stress that you will NEED

1 Simulator time
2 A good instructor
3 LOTS of stick time (Both on Sim AND the real thing - Sims are a great tool, but the one thing they can't simulate is the gallons of adrenalin that your heart will be contending with - or what we like to call "Pucker Factor" )

Neo: Thanks for the advice... Yeah... I plan on being careful to build light, without going to any extremes. I'll do some more muffler shopping if I decide to go with the 4-stroke.

RC-Sport: Ok... that's more reasonable... but the basic question remains... Why 4-Stroke? Please indulge ma and educate me. I've read lots of stuff on 2 vs. 4 stroke... 2 stroke simpler, often more reliable, less 'scale' sound, spins a smaller prop at higher RPM. 4 stroke more 'pull', larger props lower RPM, higher displacement for the same power, better sound.

Why so adamant about the 4-stroke?

My Experience:

I've always flown 2 strokes, because they were simplier and cheaper. Never had a problem with them......always performed great. Until recently All I've ever flow is is trianer, two sig Fourstars, and a Sukhoi which met an untimly death. "That can be seen on my webiste". I then picked up a Ucando .46 and decided to try a 4 stroker. I put a Saito 1.00 in the nose and man I've decided unless they planes specifically calls for a 2 stroke........I'm not going back. This is my personal opinion.....but I feel that I get better throttle response out of them, they are more relieble, and the power is just great. Yes you take a bit of a weight penalty, but in my mind it's worth it. I've never had a dead stick in two years that wasn't my fault. One was a failed glowplug and the other was well......somebody forgot to top off the tank before he took off. Bottom line is that I won't go back unless I'm building a plane for speed.


I would also like to hear some others opinions.



Neo Out!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ken, to be honest it's purely a personal preference, not scientific. To me 2 strokes engines are whiney, raspy noise makers. A majestic plane like the Skybolt deserves the low rumble of a 4 stroke. I have 9 planes, 8 have 4 strokes the ninth will be my first gasser ( yea I know it's a 2 stroke gas motor). In my Skybolt the motor is mounted inverted so the stock muffler works fine. Minnflyer (Mr. Skybolt) will second my opinion of 4 strokes motors.

melessqr,
As a bipe lover I have to admit that a good part of the 4-stroke with a bipe is just the sound. A bipe just begs to have the throaty rumble you get out of a 4-stroke. I could sit and listen to it all day long. Ok, so cosmetics out of the way. A 4-stroke is more inline with the way a bipe flies.
1. Bipes don't fly balls-to-the-wall fast, so don't need a 2-strokes high RPM
2. A 4-stroke is able to swing a bigger prop with a lower pitch, which helps the plane fly better.
3. With a bigger lower pitch prop you can slow down better than with a 2-stroke.

I don't know why you said that 2 strokes are more reliable. I've got 4 OS 4-strokes, 2 saito's, and a YS and they are just as reliable (if not more than) all the 2-strokes I have. If you take care of them they will give you a lifetime of good use. I have a buddy at our field that has a OS 91 on a bipe that has (documented) over 900 flights on it, only repair to date was a new set of bearings.

I know about the love with a bipe and why you are dreaming of building one, but please take Minnflyer's advice and build something else first. I like to tell people that one of the great things about a bipe is having to wings, and one of the worst things about building a bipe is having 2 wings. Think about it. The wing is pretty much the most critical structure of the plane, and with a bipe you've got two of them to build. And like Minn said, this kit takes a bit of skill to build. If you just HAVE to build a bipe I would recommend the Sig Hog bipe. It's a pretty easy build and it's just about the best flying bipe on the market. Plus, I love the look of it. There is a website that has an entire section devoted to the Hog Bipe and it's mods.
Check it out at [link]http://www.fubarhill.com[/link]

Please don't give up your dream of building a Skybolt. I think it's a beautiful bipe. We're just making recommendations to help you. I can't count how many times I've seen somebody tackle a building project that's over their head and get frustrated and give up on the entire hobby. Just remember, you gotta crawl before you can walk.

That's my .02 worth.

Right now, you can buy the Magnum 91 four stroke for $149 from either towerhobbies.com or hobbypeople.net. A nice engine at a great value.

MinnFlyer has the right plan- Build something simpler that you can also learn to fly. There is still a big jump involved to go directly to a Four Star 60, although I think it can be done with a lot of instruction from an exceptional instructor. Advanced flying designs also need advanced building techniques that can only by learned with time by building comparatively simple airplane(s) first. Please don't try to skip any steps-enjoy the learning process. Appreciate the journey, not just the destination. Jim

I have to second the person who stated that once we went 4 strokes never look back, don't ask me why I don't know. The sound, the biger propeller and the weight yes the weight bipeplanes are usually tail heavy, because their short noses, and engine is a good way of replacing dead lead for power weight when balancing time comes.

Talking about balancing the Skybolt, I have a Saito 100 on mine and is plenty of power, but if I powered with a 120 I would not have to add nose weight at all(total weight dry of my GP Super Skybolt 9.5lbs and flies beatiful, favorite airplane). If you must use a 2 strokes I would use an OS 108 that way some day you will upgrade to a 4 strokes and can use the OS 108 in a nice big plane.

In the building departament I'll suggest to get a good arm, you going to need it there is a lot of sanding and shaping, if I'll do it againg I'll buy a GP Razor Plane and give my arm a break; one more tool that every modeler should have is an incidence meter, if you build from kits or if you prefer arf you need one or maybe two.

If you can, buy the 7 channels radio, at some point you will need the 2 servos elevator funtion and more nice features this radio have.

Good luck and enjoy.

Another big advantage to 4-strokes is that they burn less fuel, and at $14 - $18 a gallon it adds up quick!

Is seems that Saitos tend to burn more than an OS does, but to give you an example, an OS 91 4-stroke will burn much less fuel than a 60 2-stroke. For me, once an airplane gets into the 60 2-stroke range, that's when I switch to 4-strokes.

With a 90 2-stroke, I sure wouldn't want your fuel bill!

You will recover the extra money spent for a 4-stroke in the first month of buying fuel

I HAVE to agree with the four stroke comments. I fly exclusively four strokes since I bought my first, and will fly nothing else, unless it's gas.

The sound, the torque, the larger props, the sound, the fuel economy, the sound, and better vertical.

In addition to the razor plane and the incident meter, here's my recommendation for tools and stuff. (By the way, a hollow core door works fine as long as it's supported well.)

Glues: 30 minute and 5 minute epoxy, with something to mix it on and with, (old plastic lids and wooden coffee stirrers, plus small plumbers' acid brushes). Thin CA. (Not "Superglue") and Medium CA. You can substitute wood glue for the CA, but it adds time to the build.

Tools: XActo knife and extra number 11 blades. (Buy a box of 100, it's cheaper and you'll use them.) Razor saw; Kona or XActo. Kona is better. Steel straight edge, 18". A ruler will work but.... Sanding blocks and various grits of sandpaper. (80, 120, 200, 400.) Screw drivers, small and medium sizes, both flat and phillips types. Pliers, needle nose and regular. (At least one pair with side cutters for wire.) A good set of Allen or hex wrenches. (IMO, Ball drivers are a bit better if you can find a good set.) A "Dremel" type rotary tool will help a lot if you can shell out the extra dollars.

A decent soldering iron, not the "gun" type, I recommend 40 watts at least. Rosin core and Silver solder, flux.

Covering tools: A sealing iron. A Trim iron will help too if you can swing both. A Heat gun made for covering. (Blow dryers don't really get hot enough.) More of those #11 blades for your XActo knife if you didn't buy the box of 100.

Check the kit contents. Most will have a list of extras you'll need to buy; like wheels, fuel tank (& size), fuel line, etc...

By the way. You should buy the engine and radio equipment when you get the plane. You'll need them to finish the plane, and in some cases, you’ll need them to get started. Buy an engine on the larger size of the recommended range.

Some type of "flight box". (A plastic tool box of appropriate size and design works well and will be cheaper than the "specific" flight boxes.) Some good ones at Lowe’s or Home Depot. A gallon of 10% fuel, a fuel pump, manual or electric and fuel line (3 feet minimum), fuel filters and fittings for the fuel can. A glow igniter with charger. Although not 'necessary', I highly recommend a 12 volt starter for the engine, because most new engines are quite hard to start with a “chicken stick�, and it’s one more headache you don’t need when beginning.

If you buy a 'self contained' glow ignitor and starter, and a manual fuel pump, you won't need to buy a separate 12 volt battery with charger, nor a "power panel" to connect everything. (And you won't have cords dangling around your prop when trying to start the engine.)

Then, get a few props of slightly different diameters and pitch (in the recommended range). The engine directions should give you a range of appropriate sizes for your engine. One or two extra glow plugs should last you through the learning process. I'd recommend OS "F" or Fox Miracle plugs for 4 strokes, OS #8 or A3 for 2 strokes.

Good luck and have fun.
Dennis-

Thanks, Dennis;

Appreciate it.

Ok, Ok, ok... I get it... I'll go scrape some change out of the couch and get a 4-stroke.

Any opinions on the $150 Magnum that was mentioned? Too small for the plane? How do people rate the engine manufacturer's in general, or is that opening up a religious debate?

So far I have seen nothing but great advice but I also haven't seen A good set of straight edges or steel rules mentioned. You can get by without A lot of stuff but Exactos and straight edges are A must.
I'm also one of the guys that goes to four strokes after 60 size planes. I have three OS and one YS four strokes. The YS 110 is the higher horse power unit, more then my 120 OS engines but it's A 91 size case.
If I was going to buy my first four stroke though I would go with Satio, just A bit more user friendly. The 100 is an outstanding engine and from what I have seen it's trouble free. There are quite A few of the Magnum engines showing up at my clubs these days and they seem to be A very good buy, just A bit down on power but still A great deal.
Just pick the best one you have the money for and you'll be happy.

Kenneth,

I also agree with most of what has been said about engine selection. There is nothing that sounds better in a bipe than a good throaty 4 Stroke. But, since you are just getting in to the building and flying -- 2 Strokes can add some real advantages. Additionally, a GP Skybolt is going to be a handful as a second plane. I spent about 10 flights on my dad's Kadet including 5 with his symetrical wing. I learned while I was building my Super Sportster 60 (Tower .75 2 Stroke). Though I have learned a lot this year and am getting really good on my Sportster (most patterns) it also came at a cost. 7th flight -- confussion -- upside down -- thumbs the wrong way and she was 8 inches deep in a cotton field. She was jsut flying -- my Dad yelled UP UP and splat! She is rebuilt (3/4 of a new wing, new tail feathers, body spliced back together in two spots, 8 oz heavier) and continues to fly well.

Just remember that as you go the 3 or 4 step is recommended because bipes and performance aircraft are fast and unforgiving. The Spotster is considered a good second plane and moving to it after just a few flights on a trainer was a handfull, a bipe will even be more. I would hate for your dream plane to produce a cloud of balsa. As far as building, I am also a software engineer/integrator. Follow instructions -- relook at everything twice -- good fitting parts and clamps cut down on glue which is the real killer for weight by in-experienced builders -- and you can build a great plane!

No as far as 2 strokes go, I will probably catch a little flack for this. 60 Size and below you just can beat a good 2 stroke. Lots of guys at my field fly 4 strokes and I will tell you, they require a lot more maintance and the only guys that seem to have engine issues are the 4 strokers. I am not saying that 2 strokes are better, they are just easier and less expensive until you know that your addicted and your not smashing planes. My dad has several 2 stroke 40 - 60 size engines that even after 20 years they still scream and all the maintenance can be summed up into a couple of glow plugs.

Now as far a 4 strokes go, there lots of options. A couple of guys fly Magnums and they seem really strong. At the price you just can't beat them. OS and Siato are the big guys on the block and you won't be disappointed but they are a little pricy. Finally there is a new engine manufacture that builds a different type of 4 stroke. This is RCV. There four stroke engines use a rotary valve system instead of poppet values. Most of the issues with the four strokes at the feild are valve issues or timing. The RCV CD sieries a just slightly taller than a 2 Stroke with only one more part. They have a good warantee and are priced about the same a OS/Saito. The really cool engine they carry is the SP engines. These engines use a piston that cycles front to back and are gears at 2 : 1 which means that a SP 90 turns a 16 to 18 inch prop at about 4000 RPMs. These engines can almost certainly fit in nearly any cowl. I am not recommending the RCV and I don't know anyone who flys them, but my next warbird will probably use one.

Marc

Ken, I had a Magnum 4 stroke once, it makes a great paper weight. You know that old saying.."you get what you pay for". As far as maintenence issues that Mr Carleno mentions, I set my needle valve on my OS in the late fall for cold weather (denser air) and it hasn't been touched since. I did have to send my Saito 100 in for service but it was in a crash and was damaged. Spending the extra money on a Saito or OS is money well spent.

Marcarleno......I will agree and disagree with you. I'll just make a list.

#1 Strokes are cheaper yes, and they are a good way into the hobby. I personally love my supertigers, but haven't tried one of the newer models since they were released.

#2 2 strokes can be easier to tune, but with a tach, a 4 stroke is just as easy.

#3 Maintence on a 4 stroke is no more than a 2 stroke. After initial breakin, you have to reseat the valves, but you should rarely have to reset them after that. I just did mine for the second time in two years. Saito 1.00 by the way. Havine way more problems is not true. I find I have less problems with my 4 strokes and they are more reliable, but then again I've never tried anything but a saito for that reason.

#4 A plus to 4 strokes, you don't have to retune them every trip to the field. I never, and I mean never retune a 4 stroke unless I change nitro percentage. It's just not needed. Once you get the needles where they need to be, don't touch them.

#5 A 4 stroke can be more costly to repair after a crash, but parts are usually reasonable, and they really aern't that hard to do yourself with simple tools.

#6 Stayaway from the RCV SP engine. The swing such a large prop, I highly doubt you would have the clearance for it. My buddy has a 1.20 RCV SP and it's swinging a 18x16 over 5500 RPM. It is a horse for sure.


I'm sure I'll catch some flak also, but that's what a forum is for.....LOL

just thought of one more thing.....and I'm not sure if this is still true or not, but the O.S. front bearing used to not be sealed, so if you hang it by a tail, you get unspent fuel and oil dripping out the nose of your plane. If this is not the case, please someone correct me.



Neo Out!!!!!!

I haven't had any problems with either the 2 or 4 strokes except with the MDS engines. I have one of there 68s that has been flawless right out of the box but I have never had any luck with there other size engines.
Once I set the needles on my FS engines I never have to touch them again except for when I change prop sizes, then it's just A touch of the high end.
My OS 70 is inverted without A glow driver and to date I have never had it load up or go dead stick on me.
To date I have never had to do anything to the valves on any of my FS engines, that's sort of an old wifes tale.
I have also never seen anyone using the RCV engine, either model, but would love to see one in use and talk with the owner. I have A plane that would be perfect for the 120 with A big prop up front but know nothing about them. Maybe A good topic for A post there??
Engines aside, The Skybolt is at least A fourth plane and I beleave in the 4 plane mind set too. I also think it's one of the better Bipes out there still in kit form. JMO

Neo,good points.