Paladin049

Hi, folks. I have been reading with interest the threads on the SIG Four Star 60 builds, and many of my questions ahve already been addressed by the Squardon Of Experts on here. I am planning on this bird as my first kit, as I have an OS .91 four stroke aquired in a trade that needs a home.

I have seen several mentions of increasing the rudder and elevator size and adding counter balances, but would like more inforamtion on just how this is done, please. Do you add height as well as length to the rudder? Do you extend the elevators past the stab and use an extension alongside the end of the stab as the counter balance?

Also, I see that many folks shorten the wing to increase the roll rate. I am currently flying both an Avistar and a Stik (40 size, setup as a taildragger), so I am considering this mod as well. I consider myself to be an intermediate pilot at this point. Do you think this is a good mod for my skill level?

Thanks much!! I look forward to the learning experience.

rc_heli_flier

My Feedback: (12)

On the one I'm just finishing up I didn't increase the size of the elevators but I did split the elevators and using one servo for each half. I did increase the length of the rudder by about 1/2" to give it a little more authority. A friend of mine suggested building up the rudder and elevators instead of using the ones supplied in the kit, so he made up new ones for me using 1/4" x 3/8" stock and then sheeting them on both sides with 1/16" balsa.
I also sheeted the turtle deck with 1/64" plywood - it looks much better and is a lot stronger.
I did clip the wing by one rib, and my friend suggested adding flaps. Most guys here haven't added flaps because the plane is a floater, but my friend added flaps to his and his definitely seems to land smoother and slower than some others without them I've seen. The worst that can happen is you don't use them if you don't like them. We just basically split the aileron 60%-40% with the 40% being flap. The inboard portion of a strip aileron just causes drag anyway and isn't very effective.
Mine should be ready to fly probably next weekend, and if not, for sure the following week. I'll let you know how it goes!

MormonMike

My Feedback: (2)

"Howdy Padner" ! Sounds like you already have the basics. Don't have to add height to the tail feathers. Rock solid plane, you'll like it. Suggestion, add a mounting plate just past trailing edge so you can install a pair of Falcon Floats. Re-inforce the plate good. You wont really have any fun with that plane till you discover "playing in the water". plenty more thread tips here to read about. Seeya, MM

Paladin049

Thanks for the tips! I have a Futaba 6XA so I was considering flaperons just to experiment with. I have heard good and bad on the flaperon concept. If I went with actual flaps, would I leave one of the cross braces out of the wing panel to create a second servo bay?

rc_heli_flier

My Feedback: (12)

You know, I didn't take a picture of the inside of the wing before I covered it, but I did make two servo bays in each panel - one in the first and fifth bays after the center sheeting. Basically I relocated the aileron servo out 2 bays. That puts the servos approx. in the middle of the flaps and ailerons. I just then put the cross braces in the bays without the servos. I'll take a picture of the bottom of the wing later this evening for you showing the hatch locations.
Of course, I had to make two additional hatches, but that didn't take too much time to do. The only thing you'll have to do is make some new holes in the webbing to route the servo wires through.
Even with all the mods. I've done to it I've finished it rather quickly I think - I started it on June 6th and only need to attach the flaps, add trim scheme, and hook up control linkages and it's ready to fly.
One other thing I replaced was the landing gear. I went with the DuBro fiber filled one they have. It has a nice curved shape to it and is a little wider and higher, plus I'm sure a lot stronger.
I'm going to be using an O.S. 91FS in it. A friend of mine has the same engine in a Four Star 120 and it pulls it around the sky, so I'm sure this one will go!!
Now I just need a pilot and I'm having a hard time finding just the right one! Any suggestion from anyone?

kerrydel

My Feedback: (2)

Here's my 4*60 that I modified a little. Clipped the wings, but then added rounded wing tips. Used Sig aileron stock instead of the supplied ones; added wheel pants; painted the landing gear; sheeted the turtle deck; and cut down the canopy.

Kerry

JC

Paladin,

With no reflection on your flying skills, I would build this kit strictly by the book, only because it is your first attempt at kit building. Give yourself some building experience first before trying to engineer modifications on your first build. Build it, fly it stock and see how you like the Four * 60 as is. It's a great user friendly plane.

Best of luck,

JC

Ed_Moorman

My Feedback: (1)

If you are a good pilot, you may be disappointed in a stock 4*60. It flies like a big, low winged trainer. It has fairly slow reactions and tends to float around on landing.

It will roll better if you cut off 1 rib on each side. The landings will be better-it won't float all over the place.

The rudder is very small. You can add an inch to the width of the rudder for more effectiveness. You can also add a half inch to the elevator.

It definitely needs a .91. With a .61 it is sort of sluggish.

Chocks

I used the flap and aileron differential on my 60 using a 6xa. It works ok but like Ed said it really does float so the flaps really don't give you the effect. You have to land with almost 1/2 throttle. For get the flap-s and just build it by the book. If you have alot of flying experienc then I would say to clip the wings, otherwise just leave it stock.

Paladin049

I think the flaps might be both too much and too little from what I am hearing here. The wing trim is still possible, and I do like the idea of getting the aileron servo closer to the middle of the aileron. The Dubro landing gear is a definite, as I will fly some from grass. I like the pants, but are they easy to remove when I fly off the rough field? Where did you get them? They add a lot to the appearance, I think.

I'd like to enclose the nose with a cowl, but I think that is a little ambitious for a first build.

rc_heli_flier

My Feedback: (12)

While I do think the flaps help some from what I've seen at my local field, I do agree that you probably shouldn't try to re-engineer the kit on your first build. Build it stock and see how it goes. The kits are cheap enough and easy enough to build to buy another one sometime later and fool around with the design.
Here are the pictures of mine so far. I need to finish the cockpit area, add trim colors, and hook up the control linkages and it will be read to fly. Can't wait!!

Paladin049

Y'all (can you tell I'm in Texas?) have convinced me...I'll do this one stock. I did note that SIG sells the wing as a kit, so I could build a second wing later and shorten that one if I like. I have a bit of a storage space problem and an extra wing would be easier to accommodate than a complete aircraft.

Thanks so much for the many, rapid, and insightful replies! Rest assured that when I start the build I'll seek more advice and input. You folks are great!

dr_wogz

My Feedback: (3)

Another mod, for use with larger engines, is to drop the tank floor a bit, and shove in a larger tank!

kerrydel

My Feedback: (2)

The wheel pants are from a 60 size U-CAN-DO 3D (ordered separately from Tower). Takes a little modification to make them work. I fly off grass and so far they've held up.

Kerry

rc_heli_flier

My Feedback: (12)

Well, here's my Four Star with some of the trim applied. It will hopefully look like Leo Laudenslager's Laser when finished!!

Paladin049

Thanks once again for all the input. I have decided on a couple of things - first, the landing gear will definitely be replaced, and I found in another thread a fiberglass cowl from Fiberglass Specialties for a bit over $30. The wheel pants are calling my name, too...especially with the cowled front end. Going to stay away from modifying the wing and control surfaces on this, as it will be my first building project. I have built a couple of Guillow kits just as !QUOT!cheap practice!QUOT! on cutting and gluing...even covered a couple in Econocote! Came close to trying to drop an electric motor and a couple of servos in the 172 kit, but talked myself out of it...

4*60

My Feedback: (41)

Just a comment on the gear. I have 85+ flights on mine off grass with 2 fuselage repairs as a result of 2 crashes(the fuse will need to be replaced) and the original landing gear are still pretty good.

Troy540p

Kerry , Nice job on the 4*. What color of green is that?

Thanks Troy

Edge 540

Someone at out field built a 4 star 40 several years ago and didn't realize he joined the wing....upsidedown! The wing has the normal dihedral, but the airfoil is inverted. The wings may have been shortened as well.
The plane flies much better than any of the other 4*60's at the field ( we have 5). It will do point rolls, inverted, knife edge.... with much better precision that the others. Instead of pulling up in KE it flies straighter. Still not a pattern ship by any means, but it is far closer than stock. The inverted wing also doesn't balloon quite as much on landing either.
For your first kit though...go stock. The plane is very easy to build, and will be done before you know it.

radioflier

Kerry - Very nice 4*! I particularly like what you did with the wingtips - I always thought the 4* needed some such as proper wingtips to finish the wing off. Your canopy and turtledeck mods look great as well.

I'm considering doing something like this to a Sig Something Extra. Will probably use the wingtip design from the Mid-Star 40. A few more changes on the tail and it could look like a control-line stunter from the 50 - 60s.

Paladin049

OK, another question...I'm going to hang an older OS .91 four stroke on this thing...should I use a vibration-reducing mount?

BillS

I have a Saito 91 and a 14oz tank and flew 24 minutes last Sunday without refueling. It does not have anti-vibration mounting.

Dirty up the airfoil just a little with either flap or spoiler seems to help smooth out landings. I can’t visually tell the difference in speed or flying but the tendency to bounce is reduced. Both flap and spoiler seem to have about the same affect.

Bill

kerrydel

My Feedback: (2)

Sorry for taking so long to get back here. It's just monkeykote forest green (I think that's what they call it). Looks more like grass green to me.

Kerry

kerrydel

My Feedback: (2)

Thanks for the complements. I've never really liked a "slab ended" wing, so that's why I added the tips. They're easy to make, and I can give instructions if anybody is interested.

Kerry

kerrydel

My Feedback: (2)

By the way, I recently increased the size of the rudder. Now I can knife-edge all the way across the field.

Plus, I got a new radio so that I can mix elevator in with the rudder. I've got 20% elevator mixed in to help keep the nose up. I think that the nose-dive that occurs when using rudder is one of the weaknesses of this plane. It may be what Bruce Tharpe means when he talks about his Venture 60 being an improvement over the 4* 60 design.

Kerry