Don’t mean to be disrespectful but the turbine flyers appear to be almost 90% ARF’s.

Bill

Agreed, I think turbine flying has some unique constraints as opposed to prop driven aircraft. Many turbine aircraft need a large amount on internal fuselage room for engine and supporting gear which is substantial compared to a glow or gas aircraft. Because of this and the need for a structurally strong airframe, many of these aircraft are fiberglass or composite or have such complex curves they are difficult to model using traditional framing techniques.

I think jet jockeys have a lot more on their hands and in the shop than most guys flying something from V-Mar.

Count again. 1/3 build, 1/3 people, 1/3 flying. Stating flying twice does confuse it a bit, but it still adds to 100%

Scott

Saramos,

You spoiled my laugh. I wasn't trying to point out the math, but I guess you did. I still think those of us who build kits get way more than 100% out of our hobby. Besides it's 9:30 pm, dark and I have an idea and some plans for a fowler flap mechanism that I might go play with for a P-38 kit I got my eyes on. I guess the ARF guys are watching TV wondering if the weather will be good tomorrow. Good weather, bad, day, night I always have something going on with my hobby.

I didn't mean to spoil anything I agree, we get more than 100%
Now I just gotta figure out how to convince the wife I really really need a laser cutter[sm=idea.gif]

Scott

Personally, i dont really enjoy the building itself. But i really like the satisfaction that i get from a completed model. I also see the building as a nessesery thing do do, if i dont build models, then i dont have any.

Its a very nice feeling when you fly your own built model! I have never buyed an ARF (yet). Been flying for 6years..

Scott,

The guy's at Redstar RC (http://www.redstarrc.com) are just finishing a laser cutter that they built from the ground up. Probably not as advanced as one of those $$$$ jobs that will do everything from cutting to etching. But iif you have some engineering skills (Mike and George do) you might drop them a line. I bet they saved thousands and the cutter will do 24 x 48.

My short list for biig tools:

1) 52" Hot wire
2) Vaccuum Molder/Former
3) CNC Milling Machine
4) CNC Laser Cutter
5) A air conditioned shop

I think I'll be waiting for a while, as sometime it's hard for me to convince the wife that I just need a laser cut kit (LOL).

Ah, dreaming of a laser cutter would be like a wet dream for me. I have most of the other things though. Cutting your own kit with the accuracy of a laser cutter.........ah.........I have to go now...........

I build because I LOVE it. I am retired, and I can get lost in a build and stay very happily in the shop for long perids of time (sometimes I watch the sun come up out there). There is just so much satisfaction in watching a bundle of sticks come together, not to mention the reactions of friends who come in and marvel at these things. And the single one thing that motivates me the most is that, if you look at the half dozen or more models hanging from the ceiling out there, you, or anyone, could accurately pick out the exact order of the builds as each one is better than the one before. I can see real progress in my abilities, not only in the construction but the finish as well. Sometimes I wish I could take some of the older ones apart piece by piece and start over, but there is always that next kit waiting under the bench. If I could figure out how to ACCURATELY cut wing ribs from sheet stock, I would build from plans, but I have tried from time to time to cut ribs and am not satisfied with them, so for now, it will be kit after kit.

Get ready to sell your yatch.

I've been building kits for many years and was around when the first ARFs appeared on the market. They didn't have a good reputation and deservedly so. The current ARFs are much better but...

I decided to get back into R/C. My son is interested in model airplanes and we've been flying C/L for a few years. Control Line ARFs are relatively new with the inaugural offerings only 18 months ago.

With our kit built Sig LT-40, we had the satisfaction of working on a project together. It was a good learning experience for my son (who was age 10 at the time).

Most importantly, I know the quality of every single glue joint on the model. I trust my building. I get more satisfaction from assembling and flying a kit built model and I can cover/finish it to differentiate from the cookie cutter ARFs at the field.

Kitbasher not ARFbasher need I say more

Hmm, I remember getting a Cox control line as a kid 35 years ago . . .
But I guess they were suppose to be RTFs and not ARFs.

Scott

...because it's cheaper than psychotherapy.

For me, it's about satisfaction.
I love the uniqueness of my kit-built airplanes.
I also love the sense of accomplishment I get when I finish and fly one.
I like knowing that what is now a flying airplane was once a box of sticks and sheets.
I like the ability to quickly and easily modify (kitbash) a design to make it better or different.
I like knowing that if I make a mistake, I can simply cut it out and glue in a new piece.
I like the smell of balsa dust.

I've assembled alot of ARF's lately, and they definitely have their place in my hangar. However, I still enjoy cutting and gluing and covering my way to a unique airplane. I doubt I'll ever stop building kits (I have over thirty in the que!). Yeah, I'll be busy for a looooong time.

-Wayne

Well...I don't actually build kits...but I am starting a vintage Graupner Cirrus so that will change things.

Anyway, I do get lazy flying ARFs, blast them into the ground...then retreat for several weeks to rebuild them. It's the best of both worlds and I get that same response at the airfield cause they start to look like scratch builds. 6 fiberglass jobs, 4 wing reconstructions, desalination of electronics.

I have noticed the craftsmanship of the arf airplanes, often very nice, but not able to overcome the effects of kinetic energy and my slow moving exacto blade.

[&:]

Maybe the best answers are both "because I can" and "because I like to"....[8D]

I have a few ARFs because of time limitations that I didn't have when I was under 50. I have also had the RTF CLers from as early as 1949 or 1950. I've seen a few good ones, and a lot of bad ones. If you want to consider them as ARFs, or ARCs, generally the best ones I ever bought were completed or partially completed kits built by builders who for one reason or another lost interest in a particular model, or maybe as in a 70% Smog Hog I just got a couple weeks ago, an estate sale. They almost always seem to have better construction, better materials than the mass produced commercial ARFs. And they almost always seem to fly better.
Best mass-produced ARF I ever had was a GP Modern .40 Stick. At least it was until I tried to pick the nose up by pulling back on the stick--on point # 2 of a 4 point roll, full throttle, at about 25' altitude. Only thing that survived was the Fox 46, and that needed replacement needles and a prop.

I fly my Tiger 60 almost every day and on any given day there are 2 or 3 other Tiger 60s on the flight line with mine. Newcomers to our field go up to every one of them and ask "what is this". By casual observation you cannot tell that they are all the same plane. We have four twists that show up and when all of them are in the air at the same time it can get interesting.

I agree with practically everything said by the builders in this thread. Of course when I started in the hobby the only ARFs were the Jim Walker Firebaby and the overweight Cox control line things.

I do own one RTF which I purchased about a year and a half ago after I had been badly injured in a vehicle accident and had surgery which kept me out of the shop for a while. I fount that flying the thing was stress free as I had no time or personal involvement invested in the plane. I also found the experience totally lacking in terms of satisfaction or feeling of personal accomplishment. In fact, after a couple of flights I was bored with the whole thing.

In addition, building is seldom curtailed by darkness or inclement weather.

jess

Of course, it's fairly easy to customize an ARF. In fact, for me it's been part of gluing an ARF together where the original assemblers neglected to add glue before flying one.

Well, most ARFs are monkey butt ugly if you ask me. Those flashy ones with pink and yellow transparent Monokote are really gaudy. $700 for an ARF of something that I could build myself? No thanks. I'd rather build it myself.

to me its SIMPLE. I show up at the field with one of my kit or scratch design built models, its a matter of "Look At WHat I BUilt", not some else's in large quanities. its matter of personal PRIDE and probably a model of a plane that most of the fellows at the field have never seen or heard of. how it flys is sometning else. maybe it will fly more than once, its my baby. only one thing is better and thats SCRATCH Designed and Built. one thing I do know, the time I spend on RCU, is time awy from my design and building. not bad- but a fact that i have met more builders here on RCU than at the flying field. dick stamm

Forget what I said earlier.....I was having a bad moment......well, forget some of it....

What I meant to really say is that if people are hesitant about building due to the lack of tools, forget that next ARF and buy something like a tabletop sander for around $100 instead. That sure helps the sanding part. Sears has tools like that pretty cheap nowadays. Dremel tools are getting pretty cheap. It doesn't take much to get started. If anyone saw the tiny space and tiny work table that I used to build my first two kits they would laugh and not believe it could be done.

So, that money for the next ARF could be better spent on tools to build. Tools last longer than any ARF! Buy the kit, keep the plans and part outlines, and you can build that kit as many times as you want....

Actually, most of the first kits I built, which were far less "user friendly" than today's
fabulous lazer and machine -cut kits (mine were print wood) I built with no tool more exotic oe expensive than my father's used razor blades.

Some times I feel that the tools I have now are almost cheating. Especially when i remember the craftsmanship of many of the models I saw when modern tools were rare for those who had them at all.

blblw is correct, desire, and a bit of patience are the only necessary tools. They provide the key to much more satisfaction than anything built by someone else.

jess