i always like the challenge and feeling of accomplishment. and of course, the look on ppl's faces when you tell them that your plane's not an arf!

I frequently build kits, because I am sometimes too lazy to scratch-build from plans, and way too lazy to design my own very often
Like many of the above posts, I built my first model airplane during WW II and enjoy the building portion of the hobby/sport. It is about one-third of the sport to me, with one third flying, and one third the friendships one forms in the hobby.

I can remember building with not much more than a few used razor blades, some sandpaper, a "Yankee push-drill", and a blow torch soldering iron. Now I have a fair assortment of power tools, and lots of experience since those days, and feel I can turn out a better airplane than most of the ARFs that are on the market. Or if not, at least it's mine! And......I have never scratch-built an airplane with a single piece of bad wood in it!

I have no quarrel however with those who "assemble" (not "build") ARFs. Some have no interest in building, some have no time, some are frankly greatly challenged by the use of sharp objects and other tools, and they are welcome in the hobby too, in my eyes at least. So to all, enjoy, however you go at it!

Clair

Stickman
I do build (I said that in my post). As for saying "You have the time to be on this web site, why not use that time to build something" well I am looking at this site at work. I can't exactly build at work, can I ? (I wish I could). As for your next comment "Everything in life has an opportunity cost. You give up one thing to have another" I don't want to give anything up so I can spend more time buliding. I spent lots of time building already! Do you get any time to fly these masterpieces that you keep telling everyone about. You come across like some RC plane god, and those that fly ARF's are in your words "nimrods" and not worthy of even being an aeromodeller. Well I fly ARF's and so do my friends and they are not nimrods. We are all experienced aeromodellers. Nor do we overpower our planes. We know when something needs "beefing up" if it's not up to the job. My ARF is well made and certainly not a "Junkpile". You also said "The guy who won't fly anything but a BARF is kidding himself" The young lads that are starting out need ARF's to get them up and on the sticks. I think you are kidding yourself. Me thinks you have forgotten when you started out (or did you invent RC planes as well). Nobody likes an RC plane snob with their "my plane is great and your is a junkpile" attitude. That sort of thinking just won't wash. If you wan't to spend your time building then do, but don't dis those that fly ARF's, It's very annoying. I build kits and fly ARF's because I can.

Well well,it appears that our ARF hating "As to me ever buying an ARF. Hold your breath. You'll turn dark purple first" friend has indeed bought an ARF, How many do you have Bill, A whole hangar full I bet ahhh I can breath now. Have a look at this

http://www.rcuniverse.com/product_gu...m?servo_id=261

You are absolutely correct. I tried one. I flew it once to set the trim, and promptly sold it complete and ready to fly. As I have said in the other posts, that will be the last one. I did try one, and therefore I know whereof I speak about the flying Junkpile. As to being some kind of God, I have never said anything of the kind. I do have to wonder, though, why are you in the Kitbuilder's forum defending the ARF types? I think that you are mistaken in thinking that the newbies need ARF's to fet into the air. I think that they need to know the how's and why's in order to understand what is going on with their models. The best way to learn is by doing. Not by flying someone elses doing. We already have too many people who did not learn how to fly, but jumped directly into the 3-D thing. The take off's and landings are very marginal, but the 3-D manuvers are spot on. I suppose that you will justify that by saying that they are having fun. They are, so go for it.

I learned to fly on an underpowered ARF trainer. I hate 3D. my take off's and landings are spot on thanks. I am in the kitbuilders forum because I build kits. I am defending ARF's because people need to know that ARF's have come a long way. Somebody that has only flown one to trim once and then gave up and sold it is in no position to tell others that they are no good. You obviously have no idea what you are talking about, so please stick to kit building.

To the contrary, I spent considerable time and effort to convert this model from what I received to a safe model. The original firewall was very thin, and was only adhered to the framework with hot glue. The landing gear mounts was partially glued in place, and allowed the entire retract assembly to move around. There was broken wood used in the manufacture, and had to be replaced, or repaired. The list of problems with this one is extensive.

Why are you so argumentative? I expressed my opinion, and I believe that that opinion is as worthy as is yours. I have been in this hobby since 1949, and I think that I do know at least a little about that of which I speak. If you wish to fly the ARF's that is your perrogative, but please allow others to have their opinions.

I am happy that you build from kits, and If you wish to fly ARF's, again, that is your concern. The topic of this thread is why do you build kits. Not why do you fly ARF's. You can surely find others in the ARF forum that will empathise with you. I often go there myself to lend assistance to the new members of this hobby. What do you do to assist them? Have a nice day.

Bill, AMA 4720

If you are interested in finding plans, mouthpiec, there are many sources. Flying Models plan service, Model Airplane News plan Service, The AMA Plan Service, Bill Northrup Plans, Bob Hollman plans, Ted Strader plans, Nick Ziroli plans, Wendell Hotstettler plans are just a few. There are also many other website only plan services. Some are downloadable for free, others will cost a few bucks. I would guess there are close to 4000 plan sets available, if not more, and not counting plans that are multiple sourced. These plans are available in RC, CL, FF, Static display, Antique, Nostalgia, up to date, scale, sport, aerobaqtic competition, and run from micro to super large scale. There are far more plans available than there are kits, ARFs, and RTFs combined.

Crashtruk,I am a newby to the hobby,but feel that building your own plane is much more satisfying than putting together an ARF.My trainer that I'm flying is an ARF but after my first crash found out how flemsy the plane actualy was ! I saw alot of what looked to be white glue(elmer's)in the fuse.Afler rebuilding the crash victim she flys better than ever and is much better equiped to take my hard landings.As I said I am new to the "sport" what do I know..........Oh yeah! I was looking at the new Hanger 9 P-47 the other day up close at the hobby store and now know I will not be purchasing that plane due to poor workmanship! Just looking at the outside could see many flaws,imagine what was underneath! And the price! WOW!I have built three kits so far and am currently working on a 1/4 scale J3 Cub,I would be ashamed to take *some* of the ARF's that I've seen to the field.The sense of pride you must get from taking your kit pane to the field and flying is going to be awsome!

I have only been doing this hobby for about 10 years. I did a little as a kid, but soon forgot about planes when cars girls and beer became available. My first plane was a 1/4 Cub from BalsaUSA. I then bought a trainer to build and fly. I crashed the Cub and rebuilt it as a Clipped Wing. I have crashed most of my planes at least a little. Once you build the repairs are very easy and you understand what needs to be for safety. I have had a few ARF's. They are just quickies that have no soul in them. Even though I love flying my GP Ryan I could care less about it. I don't get excited about common aircraft so I build off of plans (since hardly no one builds any more my planes are even more unique). I either cut the wood or purchase from a kit cutter. My favorites are Mace Gill and Bob Holman. I am in this hobby to satisfy my needs and as many before have stated, that couple of hours each night of gluing my fingers together or cutting them with the balsa or endless sanding are some of the greatest moments I have had. I have yet to build something I am proud of but who knows maybe some day.

Real planes have round motors

Carl

I personally don't care for ARFs, even though they do fill a need. But, if I were to put down people who only fly ARFS because they don't have the desire, inclination, skills, or time to build, I would also be knocking several very good fliers I know who are teamed up with relatives or friends where one only likes to build but has no desire or skills to fly, while the other member of the team does all the flying, but has no desire or skills to build.

Maybe if I saw better materials and craftsmanship in the ARFs in my price range I've had the opportunity to look over, and especially if the so-called scale ARFs were even closer to stand-off scale appearance standards or better, I might feel more comfortable having a few more than I have purchased to date.

This would let me get to do more flying during my building sessions.

No way would it stop me from building! I get too much satisfaction and pleasure out of flying planes I have the emotional attachment of building to.

I've always liked assembling plastic models, and I've been into model trains for years. So I enjoy assembling RC airplane kits. Where I'm at now, 5 months or more of the year aren't good for flying. So I have time to build when I can't be flying. I suppose when I retire, and can move somewhere that I can fly all year round, I won't build as much.

Kerry

Well, I know a few people who claim the (sunny) South shore of Lake Erie doesn't get even 5 months of good flying a year, but about a dozen of us in my club have AMA All-Weather flying status. I haven't missed a monthly flight since I started in Jan 1990. There've been several Januarys and Februarys that I've managed to get in several days flying. This year alone I have at least 25 flights, have completed 4 Balsa RC planes, rebuilt one of them twice, and am working on the third rebuild, completed two kit bashed HO locomotives, 4 kit bashed HO freight and passenger cars, 3 craftsman kit HO Freight cars, 4 Bachman birds, and am almost finished with a fully rigged sailing sloop model.

I enjoy building for many of the reasons stated earlier by others and know I'm a better builder than flyer. I do have a few ARF's in the hangar, mainly for float flying which can really take its toll on airplanes if you do it every week.

What I have noticed is that my plans or kit built aircraft significantly outlast the ARFs. By YEARS. I once thought that might be because somehow I'm more cautious with the hand built planes but have found that's simply not true. Although I agree ARFs are today of very good quality, they still lack some of the things we put in our kits as extras to insure longevity. Just my opinion.

The kit or plan-built usually (But for some people not always) outlast the ARFs for several reasons, including better materials and good glue joints with better quality adhesives being among them. For some people, there is also the personal involvement that might cause one to think a bit more while flying.

I've never had an ARF last more than 4 flying seasons before falling apart due to joint or material failure. On the other hand, I have one control-line plane which I completed in 1968 that has over 1000 flights on 3 engines, and several RC kit and scratch-built planes topping 10 flying seasons old. I have several kit and scratch-built Free Flight models in the 6 to 7 year old range, but that's becauseof relative lack of opportunity to fly them or because of design or construction defects that don't allow them to achieve the ultimate endurance event, a fly-away.

I am apparently going to get a number of what might be called RTFs, but that is because a friend of mine has a terminal illness and his sons don't want to get back into this sport. One of the planes is a 20 year old Ford Trimotor which the friend built by scaling up the plans from a two-part American Modeler article. His planes are all well flown and almost never needing repair from flying sessions.

50+ you hit the nail right there, my kit built planes are built with the idea that they are to last and puting the extra time in to make sure everything is well built . I also have several ARF's and enjoy them as well without a doubt I fly the arfs alot looser than my kit planes . as to why I build it brings me back to when I was a kid building my first models trying to get them just right , but not having the skills yet , for me its about perfecting those skills and when you unvale your project and your club members or friends say wow! even knowing you can always do better on the next one each project is a learning expierence to improve upon.

I'm 16 and when me and my Dad got our first kit when I was about 10 I wanted to get an arf but we opted for for a Sig Colt kit becuse it was a lot cheaper. I'm vary glad we did becuse now I enjoy building just as much as flying. And as I can't get to the flying feild every day its great to be able to still play with them at home. Building also introduced me to FF and CL about a year ago. I am glad that arfs have become populer becuse its brought a bunch of new people into the sport. But I do get concerned when I see that kits ocupy a mere 4-5 pages of some catalogs wile ARFs and electrics take the rest as well as dominating all major publicaitons (exept MA and FM). Id say about 95% of the planes at my feild are arfs and most of the other 5% are mine, I like standing out that way becuse wile I have trouble telling all there planes apart everyone knows what my plane look like. I have had a few ARFs (two trainers) but neather of them lasted long mostly becuse when they crashed I didn't have any plans I could use to rebuild them. And it could be used as an excuse to ask Dad for a new Kit.

AHEM ... this is the kit builder's forum. Who is the one whom is lost here?

Bill, AMA 4720