First off I would like to say that this site is great. So many helpful articles and just all the old posts to read. I love building things and I love airplanes. I wanted to build one from a kit so I have been reading posts on this website and found a few sites that offered some to chose from. I have a few questions about them before I continue.

Here are the ones I have chosen:
[link=http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXDJC0&P=0]Goldberg freedom 20[/link]
[link=http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXDJC4&P=0]Goldberg Eaglet 50[/link]
[link=http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXFF90&P=0]Sig Kadet Seniorita[/link]

I like any number of these but I wanted to make sure that nothing on these planes come pre-built. Like the wings come already done or anything like that. From what I am reading nothing does. I see that the landing gear comes pre-bent but thats all I see. No for you guys input. What do you think about the planes I have chosen? Would they be good for a beginner. Just looking for a fun plane to build and something to keep me busy over my Christmas break from school.

Thanks

Your three choices are excellent ones. But for your first plane I would recommend The Goldberg Eaglet 50. I had one some years back and it is a great first plane. It is a kit and you have to build everything, so are the other two. The Sig kit has a lot of parts to it. Making it more of a builders kit. It shouldn't pose a problem for a beginner because the instruction are great, But I think the Eaglet 50 would be easier. The other Goldberg kit is also nice, but I think it is a little small. Whichever one you choose go slow, read the directions and have FUN building it.
Best Regards
Nevin M. Levy
(G17Staggerwing)

I'd vote for the Sig but only because I hate plastic parts. A pain to trim and prep, and then they must be painted (more $ beyond the heat-shrink covering of wood models). Especially if you want a multi-color scheme.

I've spent more time gluing up, fairing and finishing plastic wheel pants than I did the wings on some kits. Ugh.

I agree with staggerwingG17, the Eaglet 50 is definitely the way to go. Its easy to assembly, cover and setup. Its all diecut pieces that interlock, making the build a snap. Ive built several of the goldberg line up and enjoyed building each one. The Freedom 20 is basically a small step above the Eaglet 50. Its another easy build. The Sig Seniorita is an excellent trainer, however as staggerwingG17 mentioned it is a builders kit, you get a box of sticks and go from there. Good Luck on your choice.

Another vote for the Eaglet 50. I made mine a 3 channel with an old O.S. max .25 for power. Builds easy and is not to hard on the pocket book. Real nice flyer. I gave it to my brother in Soldotna Alaska. Hope you have time to fly it Bro!

From your initial post it would seem to me that while you want to build - which I think is great as building is a key to my enjoyment of the hobby - you are looking for a high wing plane for a trainer. Right? If so, I wouldn't choose the size planes that you are showing. I would go for a plane that is at least a .40 and preferably a .60 size. These sizes will be easier for learning, more visible, as the old saying goes "bigger flies better", and it's more likely that you will be using engines in the .40 to .60 range in the future, instead of a .09 - .25 engine, so the engine bought for the trainer will be appropriate for the next couple of planes.

Without doing an exhaustive search, here's a plane that I know others (including my brother) have built successfully and been successful using for training purposes - the Midwest AeroStar http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXAP71&P=7

If you want a bit more of a challenging build you could go for a Midwest Citabria, which would be a good trainer as well as allowing great aerobatics when you are ready for it - http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXAP63&P=7 I built one, using a Saito .91 for power and can promise that it flys like a trainer as well as more advanced flying later on.

Hi. Pitch..

You may want to have a look at this thread ...lots of good advice

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_48...tm.htm#4827154

All three are good choices. Can't go wrong with any of them. Our Eaglet 50 will be 18 this year and still flys great. We wore out the original K & B 20 and now power it with an OS 25FP. Kit comes with plastic wing tips and is probably the easiest to build, especially if it's your first. It's also very easy to repair. Fly it off the ground or if the grass gets tall, it's easy to hand launch. The Sig Senorita is also an excellant flyer and fairly easy to build, only has many more parts.

If the .20 planes are your only choice, the freedom 20 is the only real choice because it is the only aileron trainer of the three. You will outgrow the other two planes a lot faster. Don't be scared of the ailerons, they are easier to learn than you might think.

Like Newrc stated it is better to go with a .40 sized trainer because you can swap out the engine and radio for future planes.

.40 trainers for the same money include the Great Planes PT-40, and the Tower Trainer 40 Kit.

For the price you might want to consider getting the Tower Trainer 40 ARF, and a kit for your second plane. That way you can start flying, and about the time you outgrow the trainer, you have your kit build ready to transfer your engine and radio. The Tower trainer ARF costs 65 dollars, which you can't buy a kit for that, and on any kit, add 60 dollars to that for covering, glues, tank and other items not contained in the kit.

The most common engine to use is the .46 and get one with ball bearings.

And get as much radio as you can afford. 4 channels minimum 6 channels or so if you can afford it. You might not use the extra channels now, but you will later. The extra channels can be used for flaps, retracts, bomb drops, camera shutter... the list is almost endless.

I agree with Newc and jrcaster about going with a .40 size plane. The cost isn't that much higher and you will have a much easier time learning to fly. Bigger does fly better! Another good point here is that there are a lot of .40 size kits out there for that new motor your going to buy, and not a whole lot for a .25! And shame on you jrcaster for suggesting an ARF! This is the "Kit Building" forum and the boy wants to BUILD his first trainer!!!

Johnny

Pitch, stick with your idea and don't miss the joy of a small, simple three-channel plane. I flew three channel types for years before I got an aileron plane and the transition was a non-issue. They are such a pleasure to learn on, and some of us like to keep a couple of three channel types on hand long after we've learned to fly more sophisticated types. Funny thing is that some guys in our club who learned on ailerons are afraid to try a plane without them!

I've flown many planes in the .09 to .25 size range over the years--the engines are easy to start and cheap to run, the planes are very manageable without disassembly, and they don't hit as hard when they go in--more bounce less bust. Nothing wrong with 46s, but the 46 orthodoxy shouldn't dissuade anyone from the terrific smaller planes. It's true that there aren't many kits in those sizes anymore beyond the trainers you mention, but there are hundreds of delightful and simple plans in that range that take no more time to build than most kits. Small planes tend to have fewer parts and they are easy to scratch build.

The Eaglet 50 is a great choice. So is the old Sig Kadet Jr., which often turns up on ebay--I had one with a mild .25 that was one of my favorite planes. I've watched an LT-25 that seemed to me like the ideal trainer. Just don't try to strengthen by beefing up and using lots of epoxy--keep them light. Jim

ps--I have 40s, a 70 and a 90, too

The Sig LT-25 is definitely worth looking into before you decide for sure. It's the size of most 40 size trainers, but it flies very well on a .25. It sure doesn't need to be overpowered. The instructions for the kit are very well written, and they are written for the first time builder. All of the little details are thoroughly explained.

Larry

Thanks guys for all your help. Got a few more questions for you if you don't mind. How long does a typical trainer take to build? Lets say you work on it a few hours a day. Also other than flying reasons what would be the difference in building a trainer model and lets say [link=http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXJ579&P=0]this plane[/link]. Are the instructions geared different or something? The reason I ask is just because I love that plane! Last question where do you guys order your plans. I have looked around and towerhobbies.com seems to be the best I can find for kit planes. Are there any others?? Thanks so much again, you all have been very helpful!

Pitch, take it one step at a time. Build a trainer and then a sport type low-wing or mid-wing type for a second plane. You will build up your skills, and you will be able to build your Extra.

But now that I see that is your goal, a 46 size trainer is not such a bad idea because it will take the same engine as your Extra.

On the other hand, the truth is nobody I know in this hobby has only one engine, and people often enjoy having a trainer around, so the .25 size planes are still a perfectly good way to go. The Sig LT-25 is supposed to go together really well, and I agree with Larry--from what I've seen at our field it is an excellent flier on a cheap .25. Your other choices are good too.

I know a guy who got out of the hobby awhile ago and sold off most of his stuff, but there were two planes he couldn't bear to part with--his Banshee (a hot piped .60 pattern plane) and his Eaglet 50.

Jim

The Eaglet 50 is a GREAT plane. It flys well and looks good. It's easy to build, too.

Take half the dihedral out of the wing, make it a tail dragger, add scabs to the bottom of the wing rids to make it semisymmetrical, power it with a .32, and it makes a GREAT little sport plane.

Dr.1

I too think that all are good choices. My favorite would have to be the Senorita. I did one a few years back, and covered it in Monokots. I took a little more than half of the dihedral out of the wing, and added ailerons. With the Webra .32 Speed GT up front, it is a fun plane. It still flies, and flies well indeed. I will enclose a photo. I also converted it to a taildragger. You can, "Bash", these kits to kingdom come, and they respond very well to it.

Bill, AMA 4720
WACO Brotherhood #1

For the record the Eaglet can be built either 3 or 4 channel. The instructions cover both ways. I'm also not a believer that bigger flies better. I think that was a rumor started in the 80's when everything started to jumbo size but that is just my opinion. Nothing wrong with any of those choices pitch19. I look forward to hearing about which one you choose!

Okay I have a few more planes in mind. I have keep in mind a larger size engine so I can switch it out when I am ready for another one.

[link=http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXJ557&P=0]Great Plans PT-40[/link]
[link=http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXDJB9&P=0]Goldberg Eagle 2[/link]
[link=http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXAP71&P=0]Midwest Aero-Star 40[/link]

Out of these which would give me the most challenge. I love challenges and don't mind struggling through them when it comes to building.

Also what about engines. Here are a few I have found. What do ya'll think about them?

[link=http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXFV71&P=0]SuperTigre GS-45 ABC w/Muffler[/link]
[link=http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXGGV7&P=0]O.S. .46 LA w/Muffler Natural[/link]
[link=http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXJA86&P=0]Tower Hobbies .46 Ball Bearing ABC Schnuerle & Muffler[/link]

Feel free to add to the list. These are just some that I found on tower hobbies website.
Thanks again guys and sorry about all the questions!!

My vote goes to the Sig Kadet Seniorita, I have just completed mine and it was a great build that was both fun and easy, and a very nice-looking airplane as well. I can't wait to try to learn to fly it this Spring.

Ok, Back when I learned to fly RC, back in 92, nobody at the field had a trainer cord. The instructor would take the plane up and hand you the radio. When you got into trouble the instructor would snatch the radio from you to save the plane. With the 40 sized trainers you can fly higher and keep good perspective of the plane.

Forget the Eagle 2, it has a dowel rod for the wings leading edge. The rest have a balsa leading edge with sheeting back to the spar. I don't like the rear stabilizer in the low position on the Aero-star making it easier for ground contact of the elevator possibly stripping gears on the servo. One kit you didn't mention is the Tower Trainer kit which may be the same kit as the PT-40.

If you want an OS engine step up to the AX, it is ball bearing were the LA is bushing. The SuperTigre and Tower engines you mentioned should be decent but may take longer to break in.

If I offended you guys by suggesting an ARF I am sorry, I was assuming that Pitch19 was working on a limited budget, and with the money saved in getting the ARF can buy a good kit for the second plane.

The Extra 300 you listed earlier is a highly aerobatic plane and wouldn't be a good second plane. Two seconds I would recommend would be the Great Planes Raptor or the Goldberg Tiger 2.

I am with these guys where it comes to the scratch builds, get a couple of kits under your belt before you try. A couple of good sources for plans though are AMA's website,www.modelaircraft.org, and RC modeler magazine at www.rcmmagazine.com/

I was reading my last post and noticed it looked rather blunt, sorry about that, I was trying to keep it short.

Also going through your engine selections was thinking back and had to chuckle. If I remember right, about 80 percent of those guys at the club swore by OS. "If it's not an OS it's not an engine", so I wouldn't buy an OS if my life depended on it. Basically they are all good engines, if you take good care of them. Read through the manufacturers support forums before you decide. The only ones I could see to really stay away from were the ABN (aluminum/brass/nickel) engines, the nickel would peel from the sleeves. If you go for the LA or brass bushing type engines, you will need to add more oil to your fuel to keep the bushing properly lubricated. Adding oil is not a bad idea anyway.

Another good place for information is at your local flying field. Most of those guys have flown a few planes and can help in the decision of a good progression, what size aircraft are right for your field, and any other questions you might have.

Well, I think the Senorita would be a very poor choice for a first build. There is so much butt gluing and if you don't know how to double glue or strengthen the joints with gussets, you have a disaster in the making. It is a very good plane if built correctly but not as a first build.

Paul

Well guys I finally bought one. Ordered it 2 nights ago from tower hobbies. I ended up getting the GP PT-40. I got ti because I could read through the manual online and it looked like something I could handle. I also got it because I could put a .46 engine in it. So I ordered a .46 OS AX engine as well as a 6 channel remote. I am going to head to a local hobby store to pick out the covering as well as all the tools I need. I will post pictures of my build when I start as well as a host of questions I'm sure. Thanks again for all the help!

Good choice!

The PT-40 is a winner, and the 46AX is an excellent engine

Looks like some very good decisions, Pitch.

Good luck and make sure that you use an instructor for the training portion so that your initial labor doen't end up in the trash can after the first flight! Not being mean or anything, but I've seen it too often that a novice decides he/she can teach him/herself and crashes and then loses interest in the hobby. You obviously are on the right track and I hope that you keep up the momentum.