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I suspect that there are a lot more people flying today than there otherwise would have been were it not for ARFs and RTFs. I've had the suspicion that many of the normal kit builders are also buying ARFs as an adjunct to their normal building.

I know I still do both. Having ARFs takes the pressure off of me when it comes to keeping something flying. My building is much more relaxed and enjoyable. I like both and hope I never have to give up either.


Ed Cregger

That is why I treat my plans as the most valuable asset of a kit, for once the model is gone, you can always build another one from the plans.

Since we were speaking of liking or not liking jets earlier...and designs, and lines, etc...

As a full scale pilot wanna-be (not many more hours now!! ) my DREAM machine is a Cirrus SR-22 with all the bells and whistles...the silver one.



Well, today, Cirrus unveiled their new jet..called, simply, "The Jet"

http://www.the-jet.com/gallery.html

Drooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooool

"The Jet" is sweet!!!! Reminds me of a cross between a F117 , the Bell X1 and the scoop from a funny car....

Dan

kits are going away like most things are now days imports.the arf/rtf arent any better and in most cases are poor quality, just cheap.

I had a talk today with a fellow relatively new to R/C flying. He has an ARF, and he was complaining about the quality of the covering material and some aspects of the structural design. I said that maybe he should try building a *kit* so that he would have more control over these things. But, he did not even understand what a kit was. He referred to his ARF as "kit built" because it required some assembly. I tried explaining the difference, but just got a blank stare. I don't know whether he didn't understand what I was saying, or was wondering why someone would go into all that trouble to get a plane in the air. I found that rather depressing.

The mass manufactured kit is going away. It's just part of the business of being global. As long as they have near-slaves willing to work, it'll be cheaper and more effective to get ARF's.

What we'll end up with, is small kit-cutting businesses, pure scratch builts, and other cottage industries fulfilling those needs.

/.

It really is different strokes for different folks.
When I purchased my used ARF trainer to get started I was a proud fellow.
But as some time has passed my desire to have the exact same thing as everyone else has diminished.
The last couple of ARF's I have purchased gave me no pride of ownership, thats just me.
On the positive note if something has to crash I prefer that it be one of the ARF's.
So right now I am into kit building. At some time in the future I may switch back to the ARF.
One thing about an ARF is that if you fly it and you don't like it, you don't have very much invested in it.

You've nailed my attraction, my one and only attraction to an ARF. me and my 6 year old can fly an ARF and not really care if we crash it. But with a kit that I've put hundreds of hours into, I'm a bit more cautious about re-kitting it! I love to build. I can't resist the urge to take a freebe set of plans and make it into a flying work of art. The most recent MA has given me some food for thought. The "Foamy" project has made me think about using old meat foam plates to make our own sets of outrageous planes whose ultimate end may be the prop-eating-gopher. This is something that my son and I can do together and then go out and fly it! Very cool. I just have to find a VERY small brushless motor, something on the order of 50 Watts or so with a small ESC to go with my 7 gram micro servos. Something that just flies with flaperons should be find, but a rudder/elevator design is cool too.

DLC

I'm not convinced the kit is going away. Yes, there are less of them; but, building is still a big part of this hobby to many of us. If you haven't tried building a kit or from scratch, you are missing a very large portion of the fun of this hobby! Can't convince you of this? It's to bad and it's your loss!

To talk like people who enjoy building models are like the dinosaurs, is talking out the side of your neck.

If you build a kit, scratch build, or assemble an ARF, there really isn't all that much difference of how precious it is.

One of the points of this hobby is NOT to hit the ground...scratch, ARF or kit...right? So if they do take a dirt nap. Do you just toss it or fix it? I think to many toss because they don't know how to fix.

I don't find the kit or scratch planes I've built airworthy till I've torn up something and put it back together. Once, or twice...third time I'll think about it.

Ya gotta shake the gremlins out.

dlc60
It is just the challenge All the wood and glue
, Then you can't beat the balsa dust all over every thing

I'm collecting for the day when all the good kits are gone!

Collecting them isn't helping the kit manufacturers either. This hording is what is driving kit prices on Ebay sky high. However, I can't blame you, still, when you kick the ol'bucket, how many of those kits will you have built?

Well, I'm 42 now and have built over 30 kits so far....I have to do something when I retire and it sure isn't gonna be putting together ARFs!

That's my plan as well. Isn't it great to peek through the stash and see stuff you entirely forget ever purchasing....

Dan

I've built from kits more than from scratch, but the truth is that scratch built planes have given me the most satisfaction. So after a period of scouring the bay for kits I realized they are kind of a waste. It's better to put my resources into good material and tools.

Another thing I've noticed is the burgeoning cottage industry that laser cutting has opened up. I think that's where the action will be for kits.

Jim

When I started flying in 1971 there were no good ARF kits. There was Lanier but their plastic fuselages gave them a bad name. I you wanted to fly you had to build your own or buy one from somebody else. I discovered Ebay last year as source of the older kits and picked up about 6 of them, including a couple that I had back in the 70s and 80s. Prices vary based on who is bidding. I got an Andrews Trainermaster for $200 and a Southern R/C Bobcat for $160. That might seem high but if you figure inflation, that is about what they cost in the early 70s. I did pick up an OK Models Pilot QB40S that I just finished, and flew that is a wonderful kit and nice flying plane. The QB40S was only $41. Often on Ebay you have to compete with the "collectors" who have no interested in building the kit. A couple of years ago someone bid $700 for a Top Flite Taurus. A man at the field did tell me the other day that the market for collectible kits and engines is cooling off though.

And for me also is the personal satisfaction of flying something that I built, not someone in an overseas factory.

For the past few years I've been buying kits that I think are about to be discontinued. I don't do this for investment purposes but I'm taking the plunge now so I don't have to worry about it later. For instance, I got a Marutaka P-38 just before they went under and have been having a blast building it. (I do wish that I would have traced the darn parts before I starting building it though!)

Anyway, when I see prices dropping on specific kits it makes me think they are clearing them out because they are about to get rid of them. A good example of that is the TF Airacobra whose prices dropped well below the other TF kits just before being discontinued. One I'm looking at now is the $30 drop in the TF Cessna that just occured a week or two ago (from $179 to $149) so I grabbed one just in case.

Believe me, I'd rather be spending money supporting kit manufacturers so this doesn't happen but lately my hobby budget has had to go to snatching up these kits while I still can. It would be nice if we had a resource that would inform us when a kit is about to go so we can get them while we can or even support it enough to stop the company from discontinuing it in the first place.

While I'm here...Has anyone noticed the price drop in the Giant TF P-47? Are we about to lose this one as well?

Damon

Nothing like scratch building from a good plan, but due to limited free time, I do sometimes build a kit.
I have collected a few certainly, but definitely "builder's models" that are more and more hard to find (at least if you are outside the U.S.) e.g. the Sig Liberty Sport, Ryan STA, the large Pica T-28, Flair's 1/4 scale T Moth (they are now closed...) and - anyone remember the old UK Veron company? got their Tomtit, just can't gather enough courage to build such a rare kit...

BTW, I'm not sure about the cottage industry of kit cutters, I've had such great success with laser parts cut for me by businesses who are not at all in model aircraft.

I have just grabbed a Top Flight giant scale corsair kit. I had been planning to build one of these is about a year. I saw on the TF site they were only going to be around for a limited time so I grabbed one before they dissapear. It would be sad to see any more kits dissapear. We dont have many good kit left.

I also enjoy plastic models and many of them are starting to disappear. It makes you appreciate how nice we have it in RC with easy scratch building from 2D sheets of wood and so many nice plans available. Maybe someday plans sellers will sell their wares electronically with laser-ready part files and materials lists. An inexpensive laser attachment for my printer would be pretty nice too while I'm dreaming.

I am not to afraid if kits are not longer available, but I have a constant fear of someday not being able to get access to good plans and wood.

To me, the plans in a kit is what counts, the precut wood is just an extra bonus.

CrateCruncher - the laser cutting is already very simple to do, without going to those airplane kit cutters and waitting a long time/paying a high price, in case you want something a little different than the large scale warbirds.

You can easily, quickly, and cheaply have your parts cut even from old paper plans that did not come as a *.DXF file.

Laser cutting technology really has nothing unique to model aircraft, and a friend and I noticed that there are many arts and crafts shops and gift shops that do laser cutting and engraving for gifts, plates, and various ornaments.

Most will happily cut anything you want provided you bring a Corel Draw compatible file, showing the necessary parts and fitting to their stock sizes of sheets.

I scanned off some plans the parts I wanted, I also added some lightening holes as I was going to use liteply in place of balsa in certain parts, my friend then took the scans and using Corel Draw converted the Raster files to Vector files, very quick and easy.

Next we went off to one of the local malls where the shop was located and gave our order.
On the spot, they laser cut for us paper parts just for us to check it was OK, and once we approved, they said to come the next day to pick our order.

The pics show the results. The young lady who did the cutting has no idea what an RC model is, but made great parts.

So it was quick.
How about the cost? well here's an example - the undercambered ribs in the photos for example, are for a scale bipe that spans 72". I produced close to (100) ribs and the cost, including materials, came to approx. (20) U.S. Dollars.

Consider that we do not always need to laser cut 100% of the parts really, as some are very simple and few, and you'll see that a couple of hours on the PC/Laptop can yield lots of accurate quality parts, in no time, without any dust or sweat.

Most machines easily cater for raw material sheets of 400X600 mm easily covering most of what you'll need, but it is also easy to modify parts to make them up from smaller ones with "dove tail" joints that are 100% accurate, if needed.

BTW, you can easily modify parts yourself before cutting, either on the drawing with a pencil, or on the computer.

I'm sure you can find such services in the U.S. too.

It's not quite like having parts come off your printer at home, but still very easy. Has changed my approach to making parts when scratchbuilding.

For all of you who are buying and stashing kits to build during your retirement one word of caution. Life is short. I to have built up a nice stash of kits to build during my retirement, Goldberg Skylane 62, Original Syklark, St Croiz Long Ez etc and now find my vision is to bad to build let alone fly. I always enjoyed the building more than the flying and regret not just building these kits years ago when I could enjoy them.