Has anyone built a Senior Telemaster with a clipped wing? Everything I read about the plane suggests its wing loading is incredibly light and that it tends to float. It seems like the wing could be clipped, much like a J3 cub to make it less of a kite.

Jack

No reason why it cant, I say go for it. Should make it easier to aileron roll nicely as well. How many much do you plan to clip off? One bay from each wing tip or two? More? Be sure to post about how it goes.

I was hoping to get input from someone who had done it already. I've been out of the hobby for a few years and just ordered a Senior Telemaster kit. I plan to power with a .90 to 1.20 4 stroke OS or Saito. I'll probably build it as the plans suggest to get my wings back, then build a set of clipped wings later. I figure you could just do the math to get the wing loading up to about 25 oz. It should still be mild mannered with that loading. I would suspect.

I built one recently with the Saito 82 and found that to be more than enough for the plane (she fairly leaps off the runway unless you throttle back at takeoff). I cut the dihedral in half and made the wings one piece and bolt on. Stability doesn't seem to have been affected by the dihedral change. My build with mods brought the plane in at almost exactly 9 pounds so it is definitely a floater.

I hadn't thought about clipping the wings but I am going to add anywhere from 1 to 1.5 pounds weight before I fly her again next season. Based on my observations of the plane in flight I suspect the clipping would work well.

I would like to suggest that you consider skinning the rear fuselage because there is a lot of flexing at the tail. It got better with the monokote but prior to covering I had some doubts about its strength.

Regards

Thanks for the input. Have you seen any of these birds powered with a small gasser? I found a sweet little 18cc Poulan conversion but I'm afraid it might be overkill. I am at 7,000 feet above sea level though, so extra power isn't a bad thing in the thin air. We always put a .60 on a .40 - .50 sized plane around here.

I also plan to reduce the dihedral and convert to bolt-on wings. I hate dealing with rubber bands.

I don't have one, but doesn't it start at like a 12 oz. wing loading?

Assuming you didn't add weight, that would mean cutting over half the wing away?

Yeah, that's about right. If I put a small gas engine up front, that should add some weight and help out. I found a thread on here where a guy took 2 bays out of each wing and he said it still flew like a kite. It might take a symetrical airfoil to significantly change its flight characteristics.

We fly at 4500 feet, not sure what the effect of another 2500 feet will be. I wanted to try gas at one point but electrical interference seems to be a recurring problem. Even so, the extra weight that comes with gasoline engines should be an asset. I have seen claims that a two stroke 40 is adequate for docile flights and I believe they are not exaggerating.

The Tele is a good "warm up" plane for the season beginning but is way too docile for most flyers once they have their thumbs back. I have the 6 foot version on the shelf but when I build it there will be little resemblance to a Tele. It will be interesting to see what the mods do to the plane's flight characteristics.

I tend to build big planes as a solution to my aging eyes. It's hard to lose sight of the big yellow Tele (:-). I am just getting started learning to fly my 4Star120. It is a handful compared to the Tele.

Regards

Don,
Check out this website for inexpensive gas conversion engines and information on interference issues. He has an 18cc and a 21cc on ebay right now for just over $100 each. I'm thinking the 18cc at about 3 lbs might be a great power plant. Also, on his site, there is an article about a 1/4 scale replica of the Merlin engine used in the P51 and Spitfire fighters. Pretty amazing.

www.indianatinygasengines.com

Thanks,,, interesting site.

I am putting gas on the back burner for now. Looking around the shed at all my 4 strokes, finished planes, underway planes and planes that are to be started,,, I recently decided to not branch out anymore (at least for now). Hmmm, I forgot to mention that large helicopter on the shelf. My brother talked me into buying it last year. It was a super bargain but I can't fly helicopters (:-).

Regards

I mounted a Zenoah G-23 on the front of my Senior Tele ARF. Had to put 10 onces in the tail but still flies great. Takes off at 1/4 throttle! My kit version has an OS 91 4 stroke in it and it flies well also.

This on a an ARF not the kit but I clipped two bays + the canted tips of of my senior telemaster and added curved tips. The resulting wing is 2 meters +/-. I'm running a Tower .75 at about sea level. Much better verticle and roll response now but still a major floater to land.

My advise is to sheet the fusilage if you are going to put a bigger engine on the front. Mine developed a tail feather flutter after much use.

Thanks for the input. My kit has not arrived yet and I'm wanting to know how wide the fuse is at the firewall to help decide what engine to use. I'm thinking of an 18cc gas or a .90 4 cyle Saito or OS. I found a nice little Saito 90T twin, new in the box I'm considering, but it's about 6" wide and I don't know if it will fit without just hacking the nose off.
I think I'll do the curved tips as well. The canted ones look pretty cheesy and it is a simple mod to add a nice tip to a wing.

Did you have to do major mods to the nose to mount the 23cc gasser? Got any photos? From all I've read on this site about the ST plane, you can put just about anything on the nose and it flies. That's not a bad thing.

I cut the mounting rails off, doubled the firewall on the front side and notched one cheek. I modified an ASP muffler to fit the G-23 as well. Here's some pics.

Very nice. Thanks for sharing the pics. I'm pretty sure the plane would handle the 18cc Poulan conversion I'm looking at just fine. I've got a 41cc engine on a scooter...maybe I should look into converting that to an R/C for something a little hotter than a Telemaster. It's just gathering dust in the shed on the scooter.

Here are pics of a Senior Telemaster ARF I built for a friend. Cut the cheeks and motor mount off of the firewall and mounted a Zenoah 20 directly to the firewall. I did reinforced the firewall to handle the extra weight. Ended up with 6 oz of lead in the tail to balance out the extra weight up front. Also, changed the wing to a bolt on affair.

It flies fantastic at 1/4 throttle and occasionally use 1/2 for loops. The plane is being used as a trainer for the 13 yr old son. He loves the plane.

I'm getting ready to build another with the exact same set up for another friend.

Bob Cox
SPA 374
Miami, FL

I wanted to retain the stock look that's why I didn't want to cut the cheeks off. I only had to notch the one side some to clear the carb. Using the ASP muffler allowed me to keep the other side intact.

If you could keep only one of the two ST/engine combinations, would you keep the OS or the Zenoah? Your answer might help me to decide what I want to do since I'm considering both options.

I like the look you achieved as well. I am considering some sort of cowl if I can't fit my engine as neatly as you did.

The reason I did mine this way was to have a reliable, fuel efficient, fly for an hour type plane. Going with gas keeps things simple. I fuel, prime, start and fly. My G-23 hand starts very easily. I also plan to tow sailplanes as well.

Yep, that's what I'm after too. I'm still trying to decide if I want to clip the wings or not. From what I've read, it sounds like even with the extra weight of the gas engine, it has room to lose some wing area without adversly impacting its easy nature.

I would say that with the G20/23 set up you could clip at least 2 rib bays off of each wing and not notice any problem. The stock wing has so much lift that to me it's only good as a trainer. With the clipped wings the plane would be a lot of fun to fly and would do aerobatics better. Besides, you don't need all that wing for a tow plane either.

Bob Cox
SPA 374
Miami, FL

Thanks for the input. I finalized my decision on the engine. I'm going with the 18cc gas engine from Indiana Tiny Gas Engines. After reading about the gas powered models you and Bdstr built, I'm sure it would be a good match for the plane. I still haven't received the kit and I'd like to get a look at the plans before deciding if I'll modify beyond reducing the dyhedral angle. We're supposed to get another foot of snow tonight so I'd sure love to have the kit here to pass the hours while the snow is falling and the wind is howling outside.
Thanks again.