Hey guys,

So in several days of googling (and searching this forum) that I love to do, I just can't make up my mind (or maybe find) a really good first kit to build, thus I need your help.

I'm an experienced flier and fly .10 electric stuff all the way to 30% glow/gas stuff. I'm looking for a really good flying sport plane or 3d of some sort in the end and not just a boring high-wing trainer if you catch my drift. The kit doesn't need to be extremely basic as I am fairly competent in all areas of RC, but definately don't want a hard or daughting kit for my first.

From what I've read, it looks like I'm pretty limited to SIG kits as they're lazer cut. I would really love to build an Ultra Sport .60 (easily voted top flying sport plane of all time) but several guys told me to stay away for a first build.

Here's a couple I've considered so far:
Four Star 60
Ultra Sport 60
SIG King Kobra (havn't researched this much, just saw it on SIG's site)

I would really like to use a Tower .75 engine to try them out as they are extremely highly reviewed and only $100.


What kits would you guys recommend for me? Are there any other good options out there for first time builders? There must be others in my shoes wanting to build first kits!


Thanks guys,
Eganwp

This is a no-brainer. Ultra Sport 60. Once you fly it you'll be sold, and have to have one in your hanger from now on. It's probably the best flying sport plane ever made.

Ken

I have had all three sizes of four Star kits. The hardest one for Me to get finished was the all lazer cut 60 size I think I just got bored. It is very much like putting a puzzle together. Don't get Me wong, it's a easy kit to build and if You add 3/4" to the rudder, it will do anything that You want. Absolutely a great flying plane. If You dont get bored it could be finished in 6 Weeks easy. I have first hand knowledge of several, who have had big pauses durring the build of this plane. Again, absolutely a great flying plane ! Once You get it to the field it will all be worth it wait and effort. Another good plane for that engine would be the GP Extra 300 kit. I to am looking for a winter project My self. Maybe a group build would be fun. I just can't make up my mind! Choices, Choices and Choices! I've even thought of build another Cub? As all ready stated the Ultra Sport 60 might be a good choice. I have hear there is a lot of sanding and shaping involved with it. I don't like sanding. Best of luck in Your choice. Keep us informed.
jship

I built the 4*60 and the Ultra Sport 60

The 4*60 builds slightly easier than the US60 and more suitable for a beginner builder.
As for flying the US60 is by far better, smooth and advanced airplane, the 4*60 is wonderful first low wing airplane flying slow and takes hard pulls really easy.

I built the 4*60 before the US60 looking back I wouldn't build another 4*60 I graduated from it, as for US60 I just ordered another US60 kit.
The US60 is not that much more work it seems the US60 took less time for me than the 4*60, just need to pay attention to details like the wing incidence because at the end the US60 is much more advanced airplane.
I'de go with the US60.

Alex

Hmm wow, thanks for the replies guys! I was actually expecting everyone to jump on board with the 4* 60 but from what you guys are saying, the US60 doesn't sound that advanced of a build. I wonder if I'd ever build a 4* if I don't as my first?

But yes I would absolutely LOVE a US 60. It's my favorite non 3D plane to fly in RealFlight as well. If it flies anywhere near like it does in the sim I'll be keeping one around forever. I haven't 100% decided between the US60 and 4*60 yet, and would love to hear others thoughts and opinions for a first time builder.


RCKen and Alex, just exactly HOW MUCH sanding and shaping is there to do on the US 60 build? And where on the plane, just the front of the fuse? If it's only an hour or two worth on the whole kit that's totally fine with me, even though I wont be a fan of the sanding part. But for me it's going to be the end product that counts. What about the pieces? Do you need to fix and trim each piece, or is it still relatively descent compared to laser cut? Can you forsee any issues on that kit for a first timer?

Just a couple of thoughts here. I have a Venture 60, designed by Bruce Tharpe, who designed the 4* series for Sig. Although it's a great flying plane, I get the feeling you might get bored with it in time. If you build an Ultra Sport, will you install retracts? Are you up for that challenge, and if not, will you be happy flying it without retractable gear? And third, I know you said a 60 size, but if you could see yourself going down to a 40 size, a Sig Somethin' Extra could be just the plane for you. It's an easy first build and flys great also. Good luck in the search.

Iam probably the worst at hating to have to sand, and the US 60 doesn't require as some may make it out to be. The parts you will have to shape and sand are the wing tips, the cowl,and the turtle deck. If you use a saw to cut the rough shape, then 80 grit to rough sand, and then final sand Iwould say you could easily complete ALLof the major sanding is well less than an hour. Iknow this because on the last US60 IbuiltIremember that Inoticed it only took me a total of 10 minutes to completely have the wing tips shaped and sanded. So please don't let that deter you. It's a lot easier than many may make it out to be.

Ken

I haven't built an Ultrasport yet, but I have never heard a bad thing about them. I have built and rebuilt a Four Star, and there are plenty of modifications you can make to keep them interesting. For the basic, stock build, you could build a Four Star in a long weekend. There are dozens of Four Star build threads on RCU.


You said that you were looking for a sport or 3D plane. I am currently building a Mojo from Swany's House. It's a profile 3-D plane, that is very easy to build and is supposed to be extremely tough. There are a lot of build pictures at his website if you want to see how one goes together.

www.swanyshouse.com

I think the Sig Somethin' Extra is a great idea as well, if you can step back from the .60 size requirement.

What about a Hog bipe? Another easy to build Sig kit, and it's a 60 size.

Good luck

Sanding- smanding !!!! Guys,just how hard is it to SAND BALSA !!!!!!!! Do a 4* 60 , clip the wings one bay on each side, ad around 3/4" to the rudder & you'll never get bored with flying it !!!!!! The kit lends it's self to sooo many different ways to bash. You can make it "one of a kind" !!!!

Well, as many people know, I too am a HUGE Ultra Sport fan, and while I often discourage people from it as a first build, I also have to say that 90% of the people who ask are fairly new to the hobby with little or no REPAIRING experience, let alone BUILDING experience.

True, the Ultra Sport is not the easiest build, but it's nothing that someone who is good with their hands can't handle - and yes, it IS the best flying non-3D plane of all time!

The one thing to keep in mind is: don't expect to build it in a week. But since you're in cold-weather country, you could get it for Christmas and have it ready for flying season (I've done that several times )

I have to tips to help with the sanding: They call for rounded wingtips. I cut the blocks to size (slightly larger than the last rib), glue them in place and sand them to match the wing - but then, instead of sanding them round, I just round the edges and leave them flat on the ends. It's much easier to do, and personally I like the way they look better that way.

You can see these wingtips in the video I did where I covered a US 40 wing:

http://www.rcuniverse.com/magazine/a...article_id=726

Next, the Rudder and elevators need to be sanded to a taper at the trailing edges. an easy way to do this is to lay the surface flat on your bench, they lay a straight-sided pen on the bench. Slide the TE along the business end of the pen to draw a line, then flip the elevator or rudder over and do it again. This will give you two lines that you can use as a sanding guide. (The image below is for sanding a taper in an aileron's leading edge, but the principle is the same)

You've looked at Sig kits and haven't found the Astro Hog? I've had one for years. Fantastic flyer and fun to build.

And the 4*60 you dont need to sand?
yes you need to sand it and the difference is that the US60 is balsa and the 4*60 is plywood fuse, balsa sands much easier.

In the 4*60 there are few places too that need head scratching, the US60 pieces are bigger and fewer.
kit built US60 is at least half pound lighter than 4*60.
4*60 buids tail heavy, US60 nose heavy...
Its not that much more sanding on the US60, IMO the US60 wing is easier to sand - less broken ribs...
for me the US60 built much faster.

there are few threads here of the US60 and there are more
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_6822225/tm.htm
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_81..._1/key_/tm.htm

Alex

Out of the choices you gave I’d probably go with the Ultra Sport 60. I wouldn’t use a 75 though. I’d use no less than a 91 (os91fx) for that plane. But I understand if you are on a budget… I also hear that the King Kobra is a good old school pattern plane, I have one still in the box, but I plan to build it.

Out of all of the planes that I have built and flown my personal choice is the Extra. Specifically the 260 and 300. I like the looks of the 300 but I prefer the flying characteristics of the 260. Flies like an arrow! I’m a fan of imac and pattern.

I would like to try a Pitts Challenger.

Don't worry about it, the 75 is perfect for that plane - more power than it needs without being over-powered

The Us60 was designed for OS 61 FX with 11" prop, I fly it with OS 75 AX and I need to stop the vertical climb just because of common sense.
The tower 75 would be more than enough for the US60.
I'll tell you more, because of using the 75AX with 13x8 prop I had problems of prop ground clearance.
IMO instead of putting 91FX in it its better to start thinking about how to reduce drag with retracts.
I’d go with the tower 75 on the US60.
Its not that much sanding on the US60 compare to 4*60 its actually easier because of bigger and fewer parts on the US60.

You allmost have Me talked in to the US 60!

Thanks a ton for the info guys. This US 60 is sounding better and better all the time.

Now as far as specifics, last night I briefly looked through the manual for the US 60 build and it does look intensive. Not the sanding part actually (which I'm now not really dreading) but rather how long this might take! lol. From Alex's responses and what people have said on the other threads there seems to be a huge discrepancy in build times! I mean I realize some people are faster and less picky when building, but some are saying 30-40 hours while some are saying 8-10 months of 10 hours a week. That's 400 hours!!!!

If this really is a 200+ hour build, I'm not sure I even want to attempt it. I know I'm naieve on the building time as this will be my first one, but what kind of time did this kit take you guys to build? I'm pretty picky and would likely be working on it 3-4 evenings a week for 2-3 hours or so.



Also, I know Alex you mentioned the 4* seemed to build slower than the US 60. Do you think its because it was your first? Or do you think even now it would still take longer to build? I'm just wondering because it seems some people throw those 4* kits together in a matter of days on here!

jship what other real choices do you have?
I'd like to hear it too, just ordered the goldberg chipmunk and another US60.
sooner or later you are gonna build the US60 even just because of lack of kits.
check out my thread started the wing on 11/6/2008 and on the 11/11/2008 had two wing halves using aliphatic glue and it wasn't a marathon, had to eat and live in between.

Alex

Eganwp,
discrepancy in build caused by that thing called life which demands your responses, also by a nasty crash of the 4*60 and building a whole new wing and fixing the fuse, I just have this anti clutter rule in my head "fix the airplane that is nearest to fly first" other wise its gets too cluttered of broken airplanes.

Now for the 4*60, yes that wing is like a puzzle it’s very suitable for med CA but to make it with aliphatic glue it’s a bit tricky.
Other thing with the 4*60 fuse made of plywood and you need to reinforce the corners.

Down side with these two kits:
US60: the fuel tank is very deep so there are two fittings for the fuel line through the firewall, not must I didn’t do it but just safety.
4*60 there is a hole in the fin for the elevator joiner - tricky to cover but everybody overcoming it this way or another.

My recommendation is coming from flight characteristics of the planes on your list.
I don’t want to be the one who talked you into this kit building thing, sometimes you loose interest in the kit and that is why there is discrepancy in build.

Alex

Eganwp,

while the US60 is a great flying and looking bird, if you were interested in scaling down to a 58" span sport plane, the Tsunami is a great building kit. In many respects it is a sleeker US40 with conventional gear but it has a long wing and stab.

There are a couple of build threads on the net (mine on RCU in the classic pattern forum and Frank's on RCG) and if built light with a few minor modifications, it will fly extremely well. I like the plane so much that I'm planning on building a 42" span version from scratch for e-power and retracts.

The kit is available from JunoRC for a mere $66.

Just another idea.

David.

Having built an US60, if you do a "vanilla" build, you're probably looking at about 3 to 4 weeks of the 2-3 hours per night, four or five nights a week. They go together pretty well, and the instructions are good. Just do things in the order GP suggests and you should be fine. I'd figure another week to cover it. And the sanding's not that bad... just get a razor plane to shave everything down first.

Where things get interesting, and therefore take more time, are your choices regarding (1) dual/single aileron servos; (2) adding flaps (which means another servo mount is in the mix; (3) engine choice (a Tower 75 will want to swing a 13" prop, which means longer landing gear struts); and (4) retracts. Mike's build thread takes you through all of this, but it still takes some mental engineering and judgement, both of which extend building time. (FWIW, I wouldn't do the retracts again, but if somebody held a gun to my head, they'd be air up/spring down with a 3/8" robostrut.)

I've built and flown both a VTE Venture 60 (first cousin to a 4Star) and the US60. The Venture build was simpler because of the flat wing and that BTE puts together what might be the best kit I've ever seen. But the US flies in a much more spirited manner.

No one has mentioned it, but one of the Goldberg Tiger 60's might also be a nice choice. It'd be way overpowered with a 75, but some folks love that

david, i was going to recommend a Blue Angel. [sm=teeth_smile.gif] http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_6819340/tm.htm

Ken isn't even in the same zip code with me when it comes to sanding!!! I'm going to make a statement and people can argue with me tell the cows come home. With the kits we have today, laser or crush cut, anyone that understands the terms used in an RC plane, things like spars, ribs, formers, center sections or most any other term used should have no problems building any kit sold through someone like Tower. Some may be a bit more trouble but none of them are beyond the means of anyone with basic skills and tools. The instructions that come with the GP or TF kits are outstanding and most anyone can follow them. The US is one of the good ones from what I have seen, not a real Kaos but close enough. There are a lot of choices so just keep looking at the kits and make a choice. 200 hours goes by a lot quicker then you think and you end up with a plane that could last for decades and not seasons!! Don't let something like the Extra scare you away from it, not a lot of difference between something like it or the US when it comes to building. Read some of the build threads right here on RCU, there is always plenty of help with a build here too!!

It's sad that the two planes most mentioned are 25 to 30 year old designs. Where are the new models? It would seem that there would (should) be more choices. I've even though about a Cub!

Cub maybe one day now I like the wide open throttle.