<span style="font-size: medium"><span style="font-family: Comic Sans MS">i've been in RC plane stuff for quite a few years now and barely know how to get a plane off the deck and around the pattern and back on the ground, with maybe a couple loops in the mix. well, maybe a little more than that.i have some .20 size colibritrainer from lasermodels that met an early death from her wings folding back coming out of aloop (probably the .32 size motor on the fronts problem),an LT-25 (with that same .32), a .40 size RV-4, .25 size messerschmitt, .40 size piper cub, and a crashed and half rebuilt .40 4* i got off some dude at the field that was going to trash it after it's demise. allkits from the start.i'm not scared of flying, but i get nervous as heck when i get to the field. once i get the plane in the air, i think i'm okay, but just getting it there i think maybe keeps me from going as much. i admit i have an addiction to building, (or i wouldn't have so many planes), but what's wrong with the flying side of the addiction? i feel relieved as hell when the plane is back on the ground, motor shut off, and refueling to go back up. but then starting the engine again brings back the knee knocking. i've always soloed, never on a buddy box, but i build the planes and don't want to fly them because they look so nice and i don't want to crash them. the LT is the only one that's been in the air, aside from the other trainer. now i'm looking at an extra 300 .60 size kit from GP. is there some underlying problem someone else has dealt with or could this just be a normal issue? the wife is getting pissed that the garage (a.k.a.my office, not hers)is filling up, and i don't mean with cars or boxes of junk. she says i have to get "rid" of a couple of them before i can get anymore. i feel like crashing them just to get another is seriously a waste of money, but honestly, the thought has crossed my mind a few times. what's wrong with owning my own fleet? how many is "too many" when you don't fly them all at once?that seems to be her reasoning for not continuing. it's my damn garage!!! is it possible to love just the building side of it? some times i just want out of the hobby, but then i'd have to find something else to keep my hands busy.</span></span>

It sounds like you can fly in spite of yourself.

It's one thing to be able to control an airplane, but it's another to know what you are doing - in other words, you may be able to make the plane turn, but do you understand the myriad of areodynamic events that are taking place to make that turn?

I would suggest getting on a buddy box with a qualified instructor for a few flights. More than likely you have picked up a LOT of bad habits which he can point out to you. Once you know what you're doing wrong, you can work on flying correctly and greatly reducing your chance of crashing

Aviation, in all its forms, is a building block, evolutionary process... get a solid high wing trainer, connect to a buddy box with a patience and knowledgeable instructor and take it from step 1... you'll be touching down like a champ in no time. My NAVY instructor told me on flight #1, "if your not thinking ahead of the airplane, you better know where the ejection handle is." Flying is only half the fun anyway.... building a quality flyer is the other half and it sounds like you enjoy that already.

wow, i didn't mean to sound like a total beginner. not that that would be bad if i was. i was one day.i know all about aerodynamics and how planes fly and do what i tell them to do. i've been a jet mechanic in the airforce for close to 15 years. crew chief on C-17's for the last 5ish years and C-5's for 9ish years before that. i guess i may have exagerated a little in the original post as to not knowing much of what i can do or am doing. my main fear is the takeoff portion. i guess either the most important part or the 2nd most important only to getting it back down. they're either crazy as hell down the runway pulling all over the place like a damn snake, orsurprisingly nice and i'm so intranced in what i'm doing that i can't replicate it again to save my life. then after getting in the air, i'm pretty well shaken up from all that, that i'm still nervous for the first time or two around the pattern. i can pull off some beautiful touch and goes with only the mains of a taildragger on the ground, float the LT-25 down the runway a foot off the ground tweaking the power to keep the altitude and grease the smoothest 3-point landings with that plane. but i have dead sticked it almost down a 150 foot runway before it finally touched down. it'sgotta have like a 5 oz/in wing loading, the thing floats so much. just saying...but i guess i am scared of moving on to the low wing jobs and my beautiful cub. it took me just over 2 years in the making for that one and i actually am just finishing a set of floats so i can fly it this winter after the first snow. that's the one i will probably cry over hurting. but what's to be afraid of really? aside from crashing and rebuilding or trashing? i was reading a few minutes ago in another thread that someone said it's not a matter of if, but a matter of when. i do try to get a little cocky with my trainer and maybethat's what scares me with moving on to something i'm not used to flying. speaking of used to flying, that's kindof an oxy-moron...i don't belong to a club because i spend most of my nice summers in the desert fighting the axis of evil, that i can't see paying to join a club to get an instructor to help with the other planes. so i'm usually alone on a country road for my runway,near a big field to fly over. am i cruising for a career of building and selling, or is all of it going to get easier as i move on to different planes???? everyone else makes it look so easy when i watch them.

Crash,

I wrote this just before your second post. Since I wrote it I am going to post it. Maybe it will help somebody????

For what it’s worth. Here are some thoughts.

If you need room to build….Don’t crash them so you can. Find some young guy in the club that is short on funds and give one to him. I know you weren’t serious with that part but anyway…

You like to build? If you are good at it, build for others. Perhaps you won’t make any money but you could build that way and not have to spend a dime. Of coarse you don’t get to keep what you build. In the old days you could get some one to buy two of everything minus radio and engine to build a particular plane. That way you’d build them one and have one for yourself.

As for flying stuff.

Something a little bigger might be of help for you. The “extra� will be all right as long as you set it up to be docile. By that I mean, engine and prop for moderate speed and control surfaces set up for moderate sport and not extreme.

But if you can - get some thing that flies stable and comfortable that is easily repaired, and inexpensive. You get the picture. Something like a 60 size stick. The bigger planes (even 60 compared to 40) do fly better but more importantly they are so much easier to see.

The biggest suggestion I can give you on flying is this. Using said plane doing one thing at a time and force yourself to do what makes you nervous. If landings bother you, practice till you can grease them in every time. Do little to nothing else except practice that. Force your self to fly five or six full flights per flying day. If you were to get two flying days with about five flights each day of almost nothing but touch in goes you will be amazed. Get a plastic prop and bring the CA and 5 minute epoxy.

Once you have landing down start in on your figure eights. I am not talking cuban eights and such. Example; a 360 degree circle to the left roll into a 360 degree circle to the right then back to 360 left and so on. This particular practice will give you a good feel for the plane and teach you to fly it in every attitude coming and going left right and so on. (we are not even talking about inverted yet) Once you can do the figure eight and put the plane exactly were you want it every lap around the field you will have gained the flight control confidence to move on to the next.

When and if the time comes to learn inverted start back at the beginning of your training just upside down. Get comfortable with strait line. Then add one turn. Then add one lap, then practice the figure eights.

If you have a fellow pilot or friend that can watch your flight and give advice in between flights rather than being in your ear during the flight might help as well.


As silly as it sounds develop a flight plan whatever it is you choose to do. This way you have a goal to learn something and you can feel it and be proud when you learn it. Learn to fly the plane and not let the plane fly you. Add new maneuvers to your routine one at a time and practice it till you can do it comfortably (at least) before adding next maneuver.



So much more I could say but too much to type. I hope this in some way will help you and or others that may read this.

By the way, If you are a young military guy as your post suggest.... I bet you could find a club that will cut you a deal to be a member. Go to a club meeting and present your case???? Since you realy enjoy RC planes the exposure to other people and what all is out there is worth the price of dues even if you can only enjoy it a few months of the year.

Anyway good luck. Hope it all works out.....

Doesn't look like you are getting to fly as much as you would like to [:@] It take time amd a lot of practice.
When you get where your knees stop shaking, you are a pro and the fun is all gone
It take Hours of flying time to get what you need to fly with confidence.
Larry K

<span style="font-size: medium"><span style="font-family: Comic Sans MS">i guess i can't really argue with any of it. it all sounds right to me, but doing is the hard part. i guess i'm trying to advance myself more than i should be and wanting to do more than i'm ready for. i never really thought about the whole going back to the beginning and doing it all again only inverted. somehow i think the takeoff and landing part would be a little difficult upside down. still having issues with takeoffup right... as with the extra...i read that just general things with i guess all planes, moving the cg forward on pretty much any plane will make them more docile and moving it back makes them more squirrely? i never thought of messing with anything like that. i justfeel like i should be further along than touch and goes and loops with a trainer. i want to bust out the RV-4 or something else and crank out some blenders and snap rolls and maybe a little knife edge... ya know??? get a little jiggy with the cheese wiz... but like everyone's always saying with working on 200 million dollar planes, sometimes you need to go back to the basics to clean up bad habits and start some more good ones. and i thought the bosses were always full of it when they said that. i want to fly more and be better. there is that really nice adrenaline rush going back home with the plane fully intact. or maybe that's just relief.</span></span>

The Extra, the Cub, the RV-4, IMO all not good planes to move to from your trainer if you're having trouble with nerves. If you are having trouble with takeoffs the Cub will be difficult as it has a tendency to tip stall if you jerk it off the ground too soon. Move to a low wing trainer like the Sig 4-Star first and that will get you set up perfect for all those other planes. I went from my trainer to a 4-Star to the GP Extra 300. I could never understand why my nerves were so jumpy for the first month on the Extra until I flew the 4-Star again and realized how well behaved it was compared to the Extra.

As far as being nervous, I just remind myself what my instructor said, ''What are you getting so nervous about? It's just a model, you're not in the thing.''

double post

<span style="font-family: Comic Sans MS"><span style="font-size: medium">I KNOW I'M NOT IN IT!!! just the thought of all the time andeffort going into it. and yes i would be more upset going into one of the others i guess knowing i wasn't ready for it and crashing it. oras i like to call itcontrolled ditching. unless the wings happen to fold back, then i guess we're talking full on crash.does anyone know where i can get a set of instructions or prints to fix this downed 4* angel of a disaster well enough to put some time on the sticks with it? well, i could probably get her back together, but the specifics like weight, CG, that sort of stuff? engine size? i've got the o.s. 32 and a 40 fx. i don't even remember if it still has the ailerons on it... definitely no landing gear on it, i think i still have the canopy. i think it's a 4*. it's orange with a big star on the top of the wing???</span></span>

Sound advise for anyone.

I had a terrible fear of the ground for the first 6 years of flying. I HATED landing until I mastered my Tiger 60. This airplane gave me a lot of confidence in myself. My knees shook every time I had to bring it in to land.

I am now entering pattern flying. I want to hone my flying to enjoy the commeradery in competition, and learn to fly well enough to handle warbirds properly. I have a TF P-51B in the box, and I want to know what I'm doing before I crash it. I've noticed that the very best warbird pilots were at one time patten flyers.

I still intend to use an instructor and buddy box (should he deem it necessary) until I can "do it right."
BTW- I've been flying since 1994.


Brian

Crash,

I'm a flight instructor at a couple of fields. I've seen people "pick it up" in a matter of 10 flights, and I've seen people flying for 10 years still on a trainer. Everyone has their own personal learning curve.

Flying is kind of like golf, kind of like skeet shooting, in the sense that it is very much a coordination game, and a mental game.

Talk to someone at your field....let them stand next to you while you fly. You might have some bad habits that others will inform you of.

Above all...if you like it...keep doing it! I wouldn't worry about it so much.

Crash


Based on what you are telling us, my conclusion is that you are not flying the plane… the plane is flying you! You are following the plan rather than flying the plane

The instructor and buddy box advice is top notch. If that is not a convenient option invest in a decent flight sim. The key to getting the most out of a sim is resisting the temptation to treat it as a video game, and just yank and bank around the sky. Fly disciplined circuits so you learn to get ahead of the plane and put it exactly where you want it, when you want it rather than just keeping it from crashing.
Just like in full scale aviation you need a flight plan. Think about your flight before you fly and map out a bit of a routine and try to fly it.(Way easier said then done)Strive to fly at a controlled altitude inside an imaginary box. When landing, I always tell my student pilots to imagine a window at the end of the runway, and their goal is to fly through that window on every pass. When you can steer your aircraft through that window every time, landing just becomes a matter of throttling back.

My last bit of advice if you love to build is. Build a Sig Kadet Sr. It is by far the best trainer for you based on what you are telling me. You will have no trouble flying it, and it will give you the time to relax and will help your confidence immensely ….
Model flying is just like full scale moving away from a trainer before your ready is a sure fire way to fail. In modeling there seems to be a stigma attached to flying a trainer and every new flyer wants to move to a cooler plane sooner than he/she should. The fail safe recipe for model aviation success is high wing trainer, mid wing trainer, low wing trainer.

A excellent way to know when you are ready to move away from your high wing trainer is when one of the regulars at your club say’s “Come out to the flight line with me and you can try my plane I think you are ready for a plane like this�.

bert

Crash, whatever it is you've got is afflicting me too. Man, I love the build, but absolutely a nervous wreck when it comes down to flying one. To some extent it's always been that way, but I can remember a time when it wasn't nearly as bad as it is now. I hate
phobias! Maybe it's an age thing?
Hey, if it's a 4* plans from Sig are 5 bucks.

Do not be afraid,, easier said then done I know, But you love to build so rebuilding isn't an issue anyway.
As stated above you just need a good plane that will help you master it all.

Sig kadet sr is an awesome trainer as well as the Carl Goldberg Eagle 63 you will find success in both.
Moving to a low wing plane I'd recommend the Sig 4 star 40 or 60 or the Carl Goldberg Tiger 40 or 60 both great low wing planes that have a great stabile platform to ease into low wings.

The messerschmitt 109 can be a bear to handle until your used to low wing planes.

But just getting up there with a good trainer plane and practicing those touch and goes will greatly improve your skills and help with that knee knocking adventure. I've been flying for over 40 years and still can produce a good knee knocking every once in a while but after the first landing weather it it be a 2 minute flight or 2o the knees don't knock. I kind of miss that lol.

I too love to build them and fly them, I never worry about flying them because if I crash a couple of hours with some glue and shes right back together again. I don't think anyone wants to crash, and with great care you can really minimize the crash factor, good preflights and checking everything before the flight is all you can really do. but like anything something, anything can happen. be careful, be patient and practice is all it takes.

if you can get on a buddy box that would be the easiest way to learn it right, many of us didn't have those options growing up and it cost me many plane crashes, But I was a kid and loved to re glue every night anyway. each week was a little better and a little less damage until the Eagle 63 showed me the light for my very first solo take off and landing. it was well worth the ride. I train many people now and really have a lot of praise for the buddy box system. it helps a great deal for a flyer old or new gain great amounts of confidence in a very short time.

Everyone who builds has a little of the "I dont want to crash my baby" syndrome. When I started flying I was about 12-13 and my mom told me "You dont get to cry about crashing your plane; is a grown-up hobby" After the initial "Aw, Dam IT" of a crash Im OK. Their are some planes I have that look like they are hanger queens because I am scared to crash and that may be true but it is true because the suck as airplanes; they need to be on the ground and I need to build a better version. My planes are some of the rattiest at the field because I fly and fly the same thing until it is worn out. Some last forever; some a flight. The more you fly the more fun it is. I am an A&P and I build my models. I had a pattern plane crash on me last year and I was happy. It never flew right to be a pattern plane and when it crashed I took the radio out and the engine and stomped it and put it in the trash. Some planes are just like that.

There are some extremely good comments on this thread. Just follow the advice and go back to the basics. Some people just progress faster than others, that's all. My second plane was a 3D monster and I still fly it to this day, but not everyone is the same. I'm glad I did it this way as I'm not scared at all flying any of my planes now (except when you have a big audience, lol). One thing 3D will teach you is stick movements. You'll never push the sticks in the wrong direction or make a hessitated move again once you've flown 3D!!! Though this isn't my recommendation, it is true and will progress your flying skill immensely after you have mastered the basics of a trainer. I cannot stress this enough, as have the posters above. Fly the wings off a trainer! Don't move ahead too quickly. I'm self taught as well, and I honestly think that the sim has taught me 80% of my flying skills. Yes actually flying the models at the field will help too, but a simulator will teach you the basics with no reprocussions when you crash.


The other common theme I see here is that you keep mentioning is "i'm scared to crash it with all the time I've put into building it". Heck I would be too!!! This is why I can't more highly suggest you pick up a cheap ARF (trainer or even a low wing trainer) and give 'er! Since you have almost no time invested, you won't be so scared to crash it! You'll advance so slowly if you're always scared of crashing. Don't be! Altitude is your friend! So use something that has very little time/money invested (again, after you've learned the basics on a high-wing trainer or sim!.


I found personally that my flying skill made the biggest jumps in skill when I pushed myself to do what I was scared of. I remember the day this spring that I told myself, "screw it! I know I can hover these stupid 3D planes inches off the runway (as I can in the sim and up high in the air), it's just my mind that's holding me back from doing it down low!" And sure enough, I swallowed my fear and hovered down low doing a tail-touch my very first time down low! lol Mind you it wasn't a very smooth controlled hover, but it was a down low hover for 20 seconds just feet in front of me none the less. I believe that was one of the most exciting experiences I've had flying thus far.

Anyway, lots of stuff here as I'm just rambling but I wish you the best! I'm about to build my first kit plane, so now I'm wishing I had your building expertise and knowledge! lol Remember that flying is always a learning process. I have a long way to go compared to some people I watch fly, which is why I want to get started in IMAC or pattern next spring. It's time to learn DISCIPLINED stick control, lol.

I can certainly relate to the fear factor...I was inactive for almost 15 years before I started getting back involved this year. I have felt that same fear you mentioned. I have spent many hours on Real Flight over the summer and when I finally had time last month to join a club and get to the flying field, I was scared. I had a club instructor fly my plane on a check ride, and then it time for me to go. I delayed for a while and finally realized if I didn't fly I would be very disappointed in myself, sort of like getting back on a bike after a crash. So I took some deep breaths and went ahead and did it! I was able to take off, fly around for while, and land, without crashing. But one thing I noticed is the adrenaline surge that happens when I went to move the throttle up for take off speed. There was a physical reaction that I was unable to prevent - the adrenaline rush. It wasn't until after I landed that the adrenaline was able to subside. I suspect you might have something similar going on. I'm pretty sure this will level out with more experience.

The other thought I had was regarding the fear of crashing a model...in my case, these models were not ones that I spent a great deal of time building...but in your case, you might want to look at a foam model that you can slap together in a few hours and then the worry about crashing should go way down because the foam models are almost indestructible - especially if you want to get into some more aerobatic moves.

The suggestion to get with a group and stop doing it on your own is probably the most important one, IMO. You can really talk yourself into some holes if you do this all by yourself. Contact a local club, let them know your situation; I can't imagine them not working with you. The friendship is a huge part of it. In the 15 years I was out of the hobby many things changed...the most obvious being these online communities where we can ask questions and have others give us feedback and support.

And if you have too many models built and you want to build some more, consider selling some of them to others...this forum provides a market for buying and selling.

Thanks for sharing your feelings...you are not alone...and there is hope...and thanks to all the others who have offered advice on this topic.

-Mike

Hey Crash....here's a short story for ya.......I knew this fellow a few years back who felt a lot like you describe about tearing up your pride and joy. He did exactly that with his first build......he described it as a beauty......goergous.....and on and on.......well don't ya know it - he crashed it and tore it up big time. His solution was to not fly his own builds. He several times bought crashes from me and rebuilt them to as nice as or better than they were before the crash. He says its not the same as building it from the ground up and has no aniety about flying them or crashing them.

You might try picking up a wreck and rebuild it.......then go flying and see if your anx is still there. My bet is you'll have a ball flying and not worry so much!

What do you have to lose?

Cheers.
Art

oh, by the way.....he's a pretty darned good pilot these days

I must say this one thing in reading what everyone has said... I am a full size pilot been flying 172s and 182s since i was 16.. I took up the rc thing some years back and bought a low wing tail dragger with a .46 os engine plane was a world models arf... Well i took this plane out was so nervous it wasnt even funny but i will say that first flight lasted through a half tank of nitro without a crash... Flew that plane five times that day. Turned around and bought a seagull edge 540 from a buddy with a supertiger 90 that was plane number two. We flew the crap out of that plane till it met a concrete ditch due to a high speed wing stall.. It was awesome... But when we went out flying i had my good friend motor mouth with me.. He would talk my ear off from start up to landing and for some reason it always calmed my nerves. To this day wether flying gliders or power im constantly keeping up a conversation it does my nerves good..

I feel for you sorta. The first time I put a plane up it makes me shaky as all heck. Im definately addicted to building I am also addicted to seeing how much stress something ive built can take. Only on a few occasions have my planes folded on me. building them is nice flying them is the proof that what you built will fly. Flying them hard is the proof that you built it well.

Crash, do you have a simulator?

If so here is what I would do....Load up a big floaty 3D airplane on it, and every night practice learning to hover it, try to learn how to let it even torque roll in a hover if you can. I wanted to know how to do that, and to my amazement after I learned how to hover decent, my REALTIME flying improved a bunch. Hovering will teach you to use that left hand much better on the sticks. I steer better on takeoff, my throttle response is automatic, and I even find myself mixing rudder in for nicer turns and landing..Before my left hand was barely helping the flights. I can almost promise you even if you HATE 3D flying..if you practice some everynight, your flying skills will improve. I would say my level went from the bottom third of the club..to maybe the top third...Also a flat foamie made out of the blue fan fold foam will have you sharpening your skills.

I was shocked at how much more realistic and scale I could fly after practicing how to hover. I seldom practice anymore, but you retain it fairly well.

Good luck to you..oh, and I have always been a person that can get nervous flying..so I relate.

hello crash, consider going back and reading post #5 and #6, i think all the advice and info your seeking is in those two posts. imo.

You remind me of me so much its not funny. I am a 30 year avionics tech and I spent 4 years at Dover on C5's also. And....I love to build alot more than flying jus cause I am scared of crashing. The weather here in N. Alabama was perfect this last week so I has no excuses. I went out and flew everyday. My knees knocked around pretty much early in the week but by yesterday I was doing OK I will go out again tomorrow until kickoff at 1430. Take off is the hairiest part for me also. But touch and go's are fun.
I love to build. Fabric and paint is my prefered covering. Someday flying may be just as fun. I think when the stress of a possible crash goes away then it will just as rewarding as the build. Hang in there bro. We will get there soonenough.