planebuilder66

My Feedback: (8)

I'm not worried, they will surface in auction sites, swap meets and on a regular basis, I got mine ordered and sent before theyy were all gone, but there will be quite a few floating around to buy. ust not as many as say the sportster kits.

carrellh

The majority of the posts in this thread are the same people who reply to every "no more kits" thread. Only a handful indicated they would buy this specific kit. I do not know how many kits need to be sold to justify a production run but I'm pretty sure it takes more than the number who have replied here.

I think we like to believe the RC flying community is bigger than it really is. A renewal reminder email from AMA mentioned that membership is approximately 145,000 and that includes all disciplines. Even if the total hobby community is 5x the AMA membership number, we are a tiny group.

What percentage fly RC planes? I do
What percentage builds kits? I do
What percentage would buy this specific kit? I would not

JNorton

My Feedback: (2)

You can make that same argument for every kit that is left on the market.
John

planebuilder66

My Feedback: (8)

Hmmm, I guess I would have never bought this kit, untill I was building a smith miniplane and a friend/LHS owner told me to buy the higgley's book "All about bipes", the smith build was in there, covering was to better the smith and build it true & square. Well, one other example plane they used in there was the goldberg ultimate bipe, I told myself I want to get one, but why now, they still make them. Now that they are gone from production, I had to scramble to buy one. Most people did the same thing, it's always there until they pull the plug on it, I almost want to bet that GP hasn't seen a kit get sold out as fast as the ultimate in a long while. They discontinued it and within 8 hrs they were all gone, if not less. The simple fact that we are crying is the fact that we all took the plane for granted that it would always be there. But now look at the facts, announce it's discontinued, they all disappear, not like lanier, where they dropped the price to get rid of them, heck you could have bought a lanier cap 232 for 1/2 the kit cost when they were trying to get rid of them. The sale of the goldberg ultimate was steady, I just think it was a cost effective measure they took.

Constrictor

My Feedback: (46)

I think your forgetting the company is not yours, but theirs and they are able to do whatever they want to with their products.

bigal126

My Feedback: (18)

I agree, it's their company and they have the right to do what they want with it. However, it seems like it hurts the consumer when companies buy out their competition, and then shut them down. It curbs supply and then you know what happens then, we pay more for less choices.

Constrictor

My Feedback: (46)

Again, Businesses are there to make a profit, not to serve our needs exactly, if it makes them money, and fits into their overall plan i can guarantee you they are going to do it.

jeffloane

Yes businesses are in business to make money. Why else? But that doesn't change the fact that a lot of good kits are getting harder and harder to comeby . Goldberg used to be "the" company to turn to for good quality kits to build and a lot of us have enjoyed building them over the yrs. I was looking for a  Midwest Superhots kit on the web the other day and a guy on e-bay wanted 180 bucks for his "New in the Box" kit. That's about 100 bucks more than I paid for the two that I have built over the yrs. Pitiful. Good thing I can build from BPs. I'll just order some wood and build another one from my old plans.

NM2K

My Feedback: (14)

It sounds as though you are having some trouble living with capitalism, Jeff. Remember, you either are a capitalist or you are not. It's kind of like being a little bit pregnant. It simply doesn't work that way. I wish there was another type of system that could ease the greed and the necessary cut-throatedness of capitalism, but if there is one, I haven't found it yet.

I look at some of the old Senior Falcon kits and wish that I had bought several back when they were selling for less than $40 new. Oh well.


Ed Cregger

planebuilder66

My Feedback: (8)

That's why I said it would be nice if the companies tat discontinue a kit offered a plans set with templates as an option after the physical kit is gone. Sure, it would require us builders to cut the kit or farm it out to a kit cutter, but at least you could still have one if you wanted to. I'm pretty sure companies like fiberglass specialties would make a cowl and canopy for the plans.

EscapeFlyer

My Feedback: (1)

I'm going to share this opinion once, and I will never go there again. As true as it is that businesses are here to make money, I disagree that this is the sole purpose of business.

I remember that being schooled and learning a trade is not intrinsically inwardly purposed. I am saying that the purpose of gaining knowledge and building business is about becoming a productive citizen. A productive citizen centers their trade on the well being of their society that they are a part of. It builds their communities, and creates a strong economy for their locale. This means that a business may make a LITTLE less money by focusing on the needs of THEIR community. But it in no way indicates they should lose money, but maintain the needs of their community.

This means I do not agree with the current business model, and I am curious why others insist it needs to stay the same when the corporate greed has buried our economy and nation into the ground.

I think capitolism works, but corporatism is a giant pimple on the head of a wart that unfortunately can result from capitolism when left to onesself.

We are in this situation because of greed, and our nation is as well. It is time we quit wallowing in misery and fix this mess. We can be very careful about who we choose to do business with, and now is the time for creativity. Anyone with a desire, knowledge of cad, and a desire can make a change.

The question left is this: WHO WILL STEP UP TO THE PLATE< LOCAL AND NATIONALY?

JNorton

My Feedback: (2)

While I agree with everything you've said history shows the opposite. Corporations by and large have a pure profit motive to deliver the maximum return for their investors. Local or community needs come second, usually with the maximum amount of publicity. Lip service only.
John

PS I wish it wasn't so.

planebuilder66

My Feedback: (8)

I currently work for a very large global maker and supplier of HVAC equipment, our office has consistantly been doing above projected profit for many years until recently. This isn't because of the ecomony, it hads to do with management. You see, our old boss, use to get instructions from corperate of what they wanted him to do, he would think of what they said and do something different. Why? because he knew that doing the right thing for the customers was always better than what the big guys sitting in VP chairs buying 100 million dollar jets wanted. If my office was projected to be a 30 million dollar office for that year, we would do 50 million, but now that they removed him and left us under the remote control of another office, our office doesn't fair so well anymore. The new boss who's in charge in another state said the time for doing what's nice for the customer is over, we're looking out for our bottom line. Now you can see that our customers are noticing it and not giving us the business they use to. I explain the situation to them and tell them it's not that I don't want to just fix it, but they are telling me to not fix it due to it's not in the contract. I still do it for some of the customers and they appriciate it and still rely on us, but what someone pushing a pencil behind a desk looking at numbers doesn't really understand is your customers are more important than the bottom line. If you set a margin level you must maintain on your products, then your going to lose almost everytime. I'd be really impressed if the CEO or VP of a major company decided to get involved with his customers, to them the customers he looks at are the share holders, he needs to improve the profit margin of the company to ensure his bonous for the year. It's just that simple, money drives them, not public relations.

DanS

My Feedback: (1)

I'm currently building my 4th CG Ultimate. I bought the kit 2 months ago and now I'm glad I did. The first one I built was in 1990 and the 3rd was in '94. This is the first kit I've done since CG was bought out by Lanier and then Hobbico. I have to say the quality of the materials in the kit took a steep nose dive when compared to my previous 3 kits. I am glad to have the plans since I plan on enlarging them so I can build 50cc Gas version and I never saved the plans from my previous builds. This current kit is taking a lot of extra work to fit parts, add renforcement (which was also needed in the originals as I found out the hard way! but not to this extent) and replace wood which is of a very poor grade. Maybe not doing another run is a good thing and if consumer demand picks up they will do a "Gold Edition" upgrade like the Top Flight brand recieved. Considering the kit has been around since '89 or so it has seen a pretty run.

barndawg77

Ya know, it's really...REALLY hard to bite my tongue ( or fingers in this case) and not get into the rights... or wrongs, I should say... of the world today. There's so much greed and immorality, it's hard to talk about anything these days without getting into these kinds of conversations. It's an R/C airplane forum, so I'm going to stick to the subject at hand. My Ultimate came in last week, I kind of nosed around and looked at some of the wood, it looked alright but I haven't really got into it, either. Hopefully I wont have to replace a bunch of it, and I'll definately be looking at build threads on here for tips on how to fix problems and strenghten the airframe as I build it...all in good time, I have to finish my other projects first!

fallingleaf

My Feedback: (1)

This is sad news indeed [&o] I am glad I kept the plans and what not now!! I think this was a totally underrated kit and its such a nice plane to fly....I have learn't so much about flying just by building and flying this plane (skilled-up). It rewards the discerning builder in how it performs in the air, and the pilot who knows how to crank the most out of her. Mine is buggerd at the moment with a torn out LG but will be taking care of it now and repairing.

As a general note I am also worried about the trend towards ARF's and IT IS a reflection of a consumer society who want the product right now, quickly without the hassle of building. I personally got into the hobby BECAUSE of the building. For kids out there its such a great way to learn how to BUILD and work with your hands - something that (unless you are a tradesman or labourer) is lost these days. I'm only 26 and I can see that [:@]

I am sure people will still build off the plans though - and the quality of the kit in recent years will be overcome by choosing your own materials. I for one found the wing sheeting and ribs to be VERY poor and easily broken - although it was light and still built up to a strong wing.

RIP ultimate!

Deadeye

I know it is easy to blame greed, etc. on our current world's status; and I can't say I disagree. But as the moderator here, I am going to have to ask you guys to please keep this thread on track. Some of the comments made above could very well offend some people in some way, etc. I don't want to have to lock down or change posts on what is becoming and should be one of RCU's tribute threads about this great airplane. Thanks guys.

bigal126

My Feedback: (18)

Some may call it greed, others call it smart business decisions. Either way, successful companies pay dearly to know what their customers think about their products and services. What we have here is a valuable resource for the company that made the decision to eliminate some product lines. I am sure they welcome this free source of a "voice of the customer" and use it towards future considerations and decisions.

EscapeFlyer

My Feedback: (1)

Original post.

And I appreciate the moderator's patients and leeway regarding RCU policy on politics here.


Brian

barndawg77

Right on! In fact, lets see some pics of everyone's past and present CG ultimates...I'll have to try and find pics of the one that I auggered into the ground last summer [:'(] I'll definately start a build thread on the one I'll be building in the near future.

planebuilder66

My Feedback: (8)

Actually, maybe a size increase is just what the doctor ordered, maybe something in the 70-80" scaled up ultimate, for 50-80 cc power, now that would be fun. Instead of a ARF version that another company offers. Just might have to think about that for a bit.

barndawg77

Indeed, a 33-40% kit would be pretty awesome. That being said, I loved the CG ultimate I had because it flew like a big plane and fit, without any disassembly, into the back of my vehicle. I also have a Dave Patrick 1.20 ultimate that I haven't flown yet, and I'd definately like to have a 33% or bigger one as well. You can never have too many biplanes, right?

planebuilder66

My Feedback: (8)

I second that, I think I'm up to 8 or so right now.

Insanemoondoggie

I,m in the middle of rekitting a CG Cub , it;s a new Tower kit and a box of junk wood, nothing like my old CG kit. I used most the wood to start my wood stove. So maybe it's for the best to let these kits go , if this is how they are going to kit them.

planebuilder66

My Feedback: (8)

Great, you guy's are making me afraid to open the ultimate box I just got today, my luck it'll be nothing but wormwood liteply and broken dicrunched bis in there.