LOL, Better to fly an ARF than to take up knitting.... IMHO

lets see, if there where no more kits, I think I would just scratch build.

Bob

Remember the old RCM days when the hints and tips where actual problem solving issues... you couldn't go to the LHS and buy your way out of something... you had to get creative and make what you needed. I sort of miss that part of it all which is why I love to build and kitbash and bring to the field what noone else has .

O man, you just said Hot water heater,...if it was hot water, why do you need a heater for it?

nevermind

Wow, I really want to meet him, I'm not trying to put down ARF assembliers at all, I use to do it for hobby shops for extra cash plus something to keep me happy and busy, but 12? I was up to about 30 a season, not counting the X-mas rush, then you had crashed planes to fix as well, I didn't even officially work for the hobby shops either. Yes, that torques me when I read the great build thread of so and so (arf),...but I just bite my tounge and stay away from the assembly threads containing prebuilt and finished planes. I must admit, I own an arf or two, two is really streatching it, but there is no heart pounding moment when I fly it, why, I can go get another copy tomorrow if I dumb-thumb it. My scratch built quickiee, well, that is going to shed a tear if I deep six the sucker. My good old TF P-47, that's already hurt once before when it hit the dirt, so to me personally, the kit is more exciting than the ARF, and the kit almost everytime flies better than the arf in my own little mind, and yes, it's a small little world I live in?!

Yes, there are builders and asemblers. Kind of like the difference between a real furniture maker and a guy that buys some bolt together funiture at WalMartand calls himself a Furniture maker.


Don

I voted build and fly ARF's... I want to get cleared that flying ARF's when not having other thing to fly. I always built my planes, from kit or scratch and had a couple of ARFs. So disappointed with them. the quality, finish and durability has nothing to do with the kits. Actually I can't build because for now I have no shop, snif!! [&o]. Anyway, as soon as I can get a place to build I will follow up with the many planes I have partially build.
100% sure that I will keep building kits or scratch from plans. And glow too: the smell of gas and the sound are unique.

Got to agree, My wife is a knitter. I tell her that the one good thing about knitting is that if you screw up, you can just pull it apart and re do it. You don't have to go out and buy new yarn. Actually, I am astounded at what come off those balls of yarn. I don't understand why every drawer in the house if full of yarn, when it could be full of Balsa and Lite ply. On the other hand, she doesn't understand why I've got boxes of "that wood" in the garage, "Why don't you throw that junk away"

You guys are going to love this. I sent my son some kits a couple years back. My grandson was bout 5 at the time and when my son opened the first kit, my grand son who was so excited got a sour look and said "Where's the plane"

I remember as a kid saving money for months to buy a kit and then be devestated because it was way beyond my ability to build. I had built a lot of Comet 10Cents kit and even a $1.00 kit once. That Catalina was beyond me. I also gave up on aCitaboria because it was to dificult. Lack of tools and knowing how to use them was the big issue. My tool kit at the time was limited to a couple double edge razor blades that had been broken in half length wise and some tape on the brokien side, and some sand paper. That was almost good enough for a Comet 10C kit, but not for the bigger ones.

I think that is probably why ARF's are so popular and Kits are falling by the way side. Younger guys don't have the room or tools to build. Us older guys usually have a little room and a lot of tools the we have collected over the years. We have learned to use them either from someone tutoring us or by the school of hard knocks. Lets face it, how many kids today graduate from high school who never saw a wood shop or metal shop class. Probably in the high 90% range. If their dad or uncle didn't have the skills, they were lost as to how to do much with their hands. Fast forward to today and well, it's a different world than the one I grew up in.

I can't fault the folks who fly only ARF's. Me, I like to smell the glue, not CAthough, and Ilike to cut and sand to fit. And I've got the tools to do it now.

Don

Ahh, He just got things backward, it a Heater water hot

Don

I only say that when I'm too drunk to notice or thinking to myself but speaking out-loud in public?!

Funny story about me is that my dad use to be an avid builder about 30 years ago. Then he moved out to alabama and got out of the hobby for about 20 years. When I came around I got him back into the hobby. Ever since he has been back now, he will buy an arf anyday over building a kit. I on the other hand have been doing wood working since I was 5 and love it. (I am now 21) When I started into the hobby I had one hobbico avistar to learn how to fly on and then after that I went straight into kit and plan building.

We actuall just got done building a new workshop to house all of our machinery that use to be busting out of the basement walls. I had a thread that I showed day by day progress of it being built if you search on RCU for it, but here are the pictures of the inside. (note: these were pictures way back when we were moving in and insulating the walls.)

U need more benches, I just get nightmares thinking of the plane sitting on the shopsmith and someone accidently flicking the power switch on.

Its not sitting there now (and we always crank the blade down below the table when not in use), We were just moving in and my dad put that plane there temporarily. We are building bigger and better workbenches (with table tops built out of a sheet of bowling ally) and we have better seating too now.

All I need is a plan and a stack of wood and I'm happy. I've bought every kit every made in the last 37 years that I liked and most of them set in my basement untouched. I have three dozen planes and only three are ARFS and one of those I recovered. Frankly ,I just think it's alot more satisfying to fly something that I built. It is also nice to have a plane that has a custom paint job that nobody eles has.
Most of the time I just pick an engine sitting on the shelf, which I have about forty and build a plane for it from scratch. Pretty much all the builds now days are from just getting a plan of a plane I like and redraw or blow up and redraw to the size I want then make my own kit. I have made a half dozen 1/3 scale kits so far. I like the twins they run so much smoother. I also like the bigger scale usually 100cc size because its always windy and the wind has less effect on bigger models. I really think building is 80 % of the fun just because I have to drive 45 min. just to get to the flying field that is closest and I usually go to a dry lake in the desert but that is a two hour drive. I wish there was a field close by, If there was I'd fly alot more because I really enjoy it.

I remember as a kid reading books from the school library about building model airplanes.That's what gave me my start in this hobby.  Some people designed their own planes, others built off of plans, then kits became available. I've built many planes from plans and although I would miss having a decent kit to work with, Scratch building is very enjoying to me... Just my 2 cents...

I don't even have time to fly anymore so who cares.

I have yet to build a kit, but look forward to it. There are several planes that I want to build. No one offers Jerry Bates 115" Sea Fury in ARF form, so I can guarantee I will. Being new to the hobby, and only flying for a little over a year, I am probably not ready to start yet. However one thing I love to do is ARF Bash...take a crashed ARF and make something out of it...

I took this Hangar 9 Alpha trainer and transformed it into a low wing tail dragger. I ran this one into a pine tree about ten months ago, and have been trying to figure out what to do with it. After a while I just decided I am ready for a low wing airplane, and this would make a good candidate. My first attempt at any type of building, and I think it turned out pretty good.

I can tell you, after transforming this plane, I will definitely find something to build. I am currently working on enclosing my 14x33 screened porch and turning it into a proper "hangar". Cant wait to start on my first real build.

TonyG

I also voted to build from plans. When I re-entered this hobby some years ago, I noticed right off that kits were scarce. I started collecting some as I found them, but I think I've stashed most of the ones that appeal to me. Of course that doesn't keep me from looking! I'm glad I started collecting when I did 'cause it's getting pretty hard out there. For me, the thrill is in the build and the pride of flying that built plane. The problem solving and the kit bashing-all icing on the cake.

I'm in that wonderful group of flying ARF's. I'm at that wonderful stage of life when I'm out of college, but no long-term employment yet. So right now I'm living in a small apartment with hardly room for the one plane Ihave, much less a proper work benchright now Isit on the floor or use the kitchen table. Horror story to help illustrate what I'm talking about. Iwas building a PT-40 a few years ago from a kit. Igot the fuselage done and covered, but no internals (radio, fuel tank, etc.) installed. The wing was framed, but not sheeted yet. Well, I had to move, so in the truck it went. I tried to put it on top of things, tried to pad it as much as I could. Well, something shifted and shattered the fuselage. There was nothing but a pile of Monokote holding toothpicks together.

So for now, I'll stick with ARF's. Until I'm in a stable situation, at least. Imuch prefer building, but don't have room/time to do it yet.

Must my 2¢.

After 38 years in the hobby I still enjoy building and flying about 50-50. I voted ARFs and build from plans. I have a LOT of plans plus a couple of my favorite kits. I must say that if you carefully select the best ARF's out there for me it is a quick way to get something new in the air at a cost similar to a kit and probably a lot lighter than I build things. Lighter of course flys better but with the ARF if it crashes it's usually far worse off than a kit built.

Assembling an ARF is assembling, NOT BUILDING !!! [sm=punching.gif]

Since I build from plans, kits and also have a few ARFs, all that would change is I wouldn't be building from kits anymore. Now... if you were to take away building from plans, I'd go back to Model Railroading as building models is far more important to me then flying and assembling ARFs.

I would build from plans. I am as much as flyer as a builder, but I like flying my own airplanes. And I like my own color schemes.

I don't think kits are going to cease from existence. I think in the next 20 years there will lots of estate sales yielding 1000s of "long lost" kits. They will be available at auctions and on Ebay. There will also be smaller botique style kit makers like Brodak....

I'm not really worried about it.

I started out in model planes as a kid building balsa kits for control line and free-flight. I remember having very limited tools, no power tools at all, very limited space, and no help from adults. I even designed and scratch built my own control line plane once and it flew great. There were no distractions like video games then. I pity my kids and this generation with losing out on the ability to imagine things and then build them.

Having said that, I am an ARF guy and love it (ok, you can start cussing now). But here's why (I am speaking for myself, of course):

1. I don't have room in my house to do decent work. I am in the process of remodeling my house in a very big way.
2. No time, I have to spend time taking care of the kids.
3. I can't seem to learn to do a good job covering the planes, maybe I need more practice and the opportunity will come when I have to recover one of my arf's.
4. ARF's have gotten much better lately, and are cheaper than kits. I see how some ARF fuselages are built so incredibly light and strong with ply in very elaborate 3D notch and tab structures and realize that I can't do that from scratch.
5. I enjoy experimenting with engine and propellers to see effects on performance more than cutting and gluing (although I enjoy that a lot as well).
6. Finally, the one that clinches it, I live only 10 minutes or less from the flying field for nitro/gas and 2 minutes for electrics.

Maybe someday when the house work is finished and the kids are grown, I will try to scratch build. But until then, I can do some ARF bashing/repair and get out and fly.

I see the point here, but....

Here's how I look at it. I'm a builder. I can make an entire plane out of wood, foam (Plug), or composites.. Might even fly!

But then economics come into the picture. Example, CMP, and now KMP. 71"spans for $300.00. Built up already!!!

Kits are kit, plans are plans. But arfs, if one want to deconstruct it to "bash" it can also be quite a build. its a pre-built wood airframe, just peel off the removable shipping covering (chinese solartex) and start.

Not the same, but like fake cigarettes, they can pacify the need to build.

Steve